What Light meters

I use one of these - Sekonic L-308S £130 http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-sekonic-l-308s-flashmate-light-meter/p1006844

It was recommended to me and does everything I want - flash, ambient, incident, reflected. I have seen it recommended by others often enough.

I only use it for flash metering though, setting up lighting ratios etc, but always set final exposure by checking the histogram. It's more accurate - f/numbers are theoretical, and the amount of light actually coming through the lens is often a bit less. ISO is a bit of a moveable feast too, and the histogram takes these variances into account.

Apart from flash, I don't see the point of a separate meter TBH. It may be more convenient in some situations, but it doesn't do anything you can't do with the camera's meter. I do enjoy using it though - makes me feel like a proper photographer :D
 
Sekonic L-758DR - you can set up a profile for you camera. Solves the problem mentioned above.
 
An incident meter does a lot of things that your camera meter can't do!

There are huge differences in how an incident meter and how a reflected meter (the one in your camera) work.

Because incident metering reads the intensity of light falling on the subject, it provides readings that will create accurate and consistent rendition of the subject’s tonality, color and contrasts regardless of reflectance, background color or brightness or subject textures. Subjects that appear lighter than middle gray to your eye will appear lighter in the finished image. Subjects that are darker than middle gray will appear darker. Colors will be rendered accurately and highlight and shadow areas will fall naturally into place.

Because reflected metering reads the intensity of light reflecting off of the subject, they are easily fooled by variances in tonality, color, contrast, background brightness, surface textures and shape. What you see is often not at all what you get. Reflected meters do a good job of reading the amount of light bouncing off of a subject — the trouble is they don’t take into account any other factors in the scene. They are merciless in recording all things as a medium tone.

(From Seconic website)

How meters and histograms work are here
http://www.sekonic.com/images/files/HistogramsLightmetersWorkTogether.pdf
 
AliB said:
An incident meter does a lot of things that your camera meter can't do!

There are huge differences in how an incident meter and how a reflected meter (the one in your camera) work.

Because incident metering reads the intensity of light falling on the subject, it provides readings that will create accurate and consistent rendition of the subject’s tonality, color and contrasts regardless of reflectance, background color or brightness or subject textures. Subjects that appear lighter than middle gray to your eye will appear lighter in the finished image. Subjects that are darker than middle gray will appear darker. Colors will be rendered accurately and highlight and shadow areas will fall naturally into place.

Because reflected metering reads the intensity of light reflecting off of the subject, they are easily fooled by variances in tonality, color, contrast, background brightness, surface textures and shape. What you see is often not at all what you get. Reflected meters do a good job of reading the amount of light bouncing off of a subject — the trouble is they don’t take into account any other factors in the scene. They are merciless in recording all things as a medium tone.

(From Seconic website)

How meters and histograms work are here
http://www.sekonic.com/images/files/HistogramsLightmetersWorkTogether.pdf
Click to expand...

:agree: She's not wrong you know :thumbs:

Mine's the Sekonic L-358, great for flash & outdoors as it does everything I need to it

Spot meters are only any use to sports/wildlife types (and even then unnecessary if the same light is falling on them & you), and they cost 2-3x as much too :(

Mine was £115 2nd hand from MPB on here

DD
 
Chaz Photos said:
Same make so far but different models why did you pick the model you have?
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Spot metering - % flash reading in mixed light situations - wireless triggering of flash units - ability to profile your camera for very accurate readings for that body - very repeatable accuracy
 
AliB said:
An incident meter does a lot of things that your camera meter can't do!

There are huge differences in how an incident meter and how a reflected meter (the one in your camera) work.

Because incident metering reads the intensity of light falling on the subject, it provides readings that will create accurate and consistent rendition of the subject’s tonality, color and contrasts regardless of reflectance, background color or brightness or subject textures. Subjects that appear lighter than middle gray to your eye will appear lighter in the finished image. Subjects that are darker than middle gray will appear darker. Colors will be rendered accurately and highlight and shadow areas will fall naturally into place.

Because reflected metering reads the intensity of light reflecting off of the subject, they are easily fooled by variances in tonality, color, contrast, background brightness, surface textures and shape. What you see is often not at all what you get. Reflected meters do a good job of reading the amount of light bouncing off of a subject — the trouble is they don’t take into account any other factors in the scene. They are merciless in recording all things as a medium tone.

(From Seconic website)

How meters and histograms work are here
http://www.sekonic.com/images/files/HistogramsLightmetersWorkTogether.pdf
Click to expand...

DiddyDave said:
:agree: She's not wrong you know :thumbs:

DD
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Oh come on guys, you know me better than that. I am well aware of the difference between an incident light and a reflected light meter reading, and you can do both with the camera's meter.

It is an absolute doddle to take an incident light reading with the camera's meter. You just take a reading off an 18% grey card. Or off a piece of white paper, or with a diffuser over the lens, or off the palm of your hand - basically anything of known reflectance, then dial in an adjustment. Off the palm of your caucasian palm it will be +1.3 stops.

Also hand held meters do not adjust for the lens' angle of view, most of them do not have a spot reading facility, and they certainly don't have evaluative/matrix mode. Nor do they have an LCD that can be enabled with real life over-exposure warning (blinkies) or show a histogram.

Hand held meters have much more restricted use, and need quite a bit of knowledge to use properly.

Excellent link about histograms Ali :thumbs:

Edit: to get the most from a digital sensor, to maximise tonal range and minimise noise, you need to 'expose to the right'. You can only do that by reading the histogram and it will give you a better exposure than a straight incident light reading in many situations.
 
HoppyUK said:
Oh come on guys, you know me better than that. I am well aware of the difference between an incident light and a reflected light meter reading, and you can do both with the camera's meter.

It is an absolute doddle to take an incident light reading with the camera's meter. You just take a reading off an 18% grey card. Or off a piece of white paper, or with a diffuser over the lens, or off the palm of your hand - basically anything of known reflectance, then dial in an adjustment. Off the palm of your caucasian palm it will be +1.3 stops.

Also hand held meters do not adjust for the lens' angle of view, most of them do not have a spot reading facility, and they certainly don't have evaluative/matrix mode. Nor do they have an LCD that can be enabled with real life over-exposure warning (blinkies) or show a histogram.

Hand held meters have much more restricted use, and need quite a bit of knowledge to use properly.

Excellent link about histograms Ali :thumbs:

Edit: to get the most from a digital sensor, to maximise tonal range and minimise noise, you need to 'expose to the right'. You can only do that by reading the histogram and it will give you a better exposure than a straight incident light reading in many situations.
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This is true to a point but if you taking flash then you will have to keep taking shots to see the histogram ALSO you not say how you can take a incident light reading with the camera's meter
 
Camera meters read reflected light - it is not possible to take a true incident light reading with any camera meter I know of.
 
awp said:
Camera meters read reflected light - it is not possible to take a true incident light reading with any camera meter I know of.
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What?! :eek: You can't take an incident reading with the camera's meter? Of course you can.

An incident reading is a measure of the brightness of the light source, as opposed to the subject. All you need for that is a target of known reflectance, or known absorbancy if you prefer. In that way, you can relate it back directly to the source. This is what a hand meter with an invercone does.

With the camera's meter, using an 18% grey card gives exactly the same result. Or if you you want to mimic a hand meter, put a diffuser over the lens and point it at the light.
 
Not very scientific. An incident light meter measure the light FALLING on a subject - measuring the light from an 18% grey card is still light REFLECTED from the card - and as for the diffuser thing - I can show you lots of diffusers - each one will pass a different amount of light. This is a botch at best.

Having said all that - in camera meters in modern cameras are pretty good with reflected light readings and the memory of exposure values they carry.
 
awp said:
Not very scientific. An incident light meter measure the light FALLING on a subject - measuring the light from an 18% grey card is still light REFLECTED from the card - and as for the diffuser thing - I can show you lots of diffusers - each one will pass a different amount of light. This is a botch at best.

Having said all that - in camera meters in modern cameras are pretty good with reflected light readings and the memory of exposure values they carry.
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It is absolutely scientific. There is no difference between a reflected light reading off a card of known 18% grey reflectance, and a hand held meter reading through an invercone or diffuser with 18% light transmission.

If you want to replicate a hand meter and inversone exactly, buy an ExpoDisc for £70. Or one of the cheap alternatives on ebay. Or make one yourself out of a Pringles lid and a couple of sheets of white paper. This stuff is not difficult ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
It is absolutely scientific. There is no difference between a reflected light reading off a card of known 18% grey reflectance, and a hand held meter reading through an invercone or diffuser with 18% light transmission.

If you want to replicate a hand meter and inversone exactly, buy an ExpoDisc for £70. Or one of the cheap alternatives on ebay. Or make one yourself out of a Pringles lid and a couple of sheets of white paper. This stuff is not difficult ;)
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Expodiscs are used for WB mate - not exposure ;)

This is getting to look like a bit of a silly argument now - and is probably NOT helping the OP or anyone else too unsure of metering :(

Next we'll all start about it not being 18% grey at all, someone will start on the 'it's actually 14%' when along will come a boffin and chunter about 12% being a truer figure

The thing is, external incident meters are useful outside of the studio too and can work well where a camera's meter can be fooled and where the histogram isn't any use. That said, many experienced peeps will also know when their camera is going to make an error and correct either through exp comp or shooting on manual

Do we agree on that? :shrug:

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
Expodiscs are used for WB mate - not exposure ;)

This is getting to look like a bit of a silly argument now - and is probably NOT helping the OP or anyone else too unsure of metering :(

Next we'll all start about it not being 18% grey at all, someone will start on the 'it's actually 14%' when along will come a boffin and chunter about 12% being a truer figure

The thing is, external incident meters are useful outside of the studio too and can work well where a camera's meter can be fooled and where the histogram isn't any use. That said, many experienced peeps will also know when their camera is going to make an error and correct either through exp comp or shooting on manual

Do we agree on that? :shrug:

DD
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Not really, other than that it is rather silly argument :D

ExposDisc was originally marketed as an incident metering attachment for SLRs, and since it has 18% transmission, it is perfectly useable as one. They have just deleted that aspect of it's application since the advent of digital as the histogram rendered incident readings redundant. Incident readings are strictly only applicable to shooting slide film anyway ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
Not really, other than that it is rather silly argument :D

ExposDisc was originally marketed as an incident metering attachment for SLRs, and since it has 18% transmission, it is perfectly useable as one. They have just deleted that aspect of it's application since the advent of digital as the histogram rendered incident readings redundant. Incident readings are strictly only applicable to shooting slide film anyway ;)
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Now who's talking tosh :lol:

On the basis that no agreement shall be reached here - "I'm out"

As in - unsubscribing from this one ;)

:wave:

DD
 
Haha :) On that basis, me too :D
 
I use a L-358 but only for studio lights, never tried it outside:shrug: maybe give it a go.
 
DiddyDave said:
Expodiscs are used for WB mate - not exposure ;)

This is getting to look like a bit of a silly argument now - and is probably NOT helping the OP or anyone else too unsure of metering :(

Next we'll all start about it not being 18% grey at all, someone will start on the 'it's actually 14%' when along will come a boffin and chunter about 12% being a truer figure
DD
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:clap: so you know its 12% as well :thumbs:
I know how to use one all I was asking in OP was what one to get...:bang:
 
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