What softbox to buy and what size.?

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Alex Tyler
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I have experience using flashes in the outdoors with no modifiers on, but I am looking at getting a small studio setup and have been looking at soft boxes and just wondering what sort of size should I be looking at.??

I will be using these with speedlites I already have. Can anyone recommend any that would be good for starting studio stuff without breaking the bank.? I will be shooting portraits to products shots with them. Looking at getting 2 or 3 of these as well.

I will also be looking at getting stands and a backdrop as well soon if anyone can recommend any.

Thanks

Tyler
 
When I did have a studio, I had a large Octobox, medium sized Soft Box's and a few Wafers (tall and thin) + a beauty dish.

For portraiture, I moved between the beauty dish and a medium sized soft box + reflectors (do not forget them as an inexpensive but essential studio tool).

As for size, that is dependent on the space you have. No use getting wafers if you do not have the length to shoot someone full length with a 50mm lens but I would suggest a small soft box + a small beauty dish.
 
Flash guns and soft boxes are a bit of a mismatch, because the flashgun has a very small reflector designed to push light forward. Opinions vary as to the best compromise, but my solution is the Westcott* type where the flashgun is inside the soft box pointing back into the box.

If you get the soft box with rear mounted bracket, you should fit a stofen type diffuser to try to get 'some' light bouncing around the inside of the softbox, and always with an internal baffle too.

* the problem with this type is that another joint is required to get the softbox to a reasonable angle of tilt.

Given the above considerations, it's difficult to fill a really large softbox with the light from a flashgun. So I'd recommend starting small.
 
I don't agree with that, and IMO the testing process is flawed.

It's true that softboxes don't actually "eat" light, in fact they make pretty efficient use of light. What actually happens is that they disperse light over a large area, so the greater the distance from softbox front to subject, the more light appears to be lost - but that also occurs with most light modifiers.

The problem is that softboxes (the conventional type with the light coming through the back) are designed to be used without a reflector, so that the light can bounce around off of the walls and then end up lighting the front diffuser fairly evenly. A hotshoe flash simply can't do that, although the least bad results are obtained when set to the widest possible angle and with a Stofen type diffuser fitted to it.

Measuring the fall of of light from centre to edge at a distance of 6' just produces skewed figures - the readings need to be taken with the light meter in contact with the front diffuser, where the meter can measure the reality.
Typically, softboxes need to be capable of being used almost in contact with the subject when required
 
I agree w/ Phil. Internal baffle and diffusion dome (I use the stock one that came w/ my SB). IMO, anything much under 36" isn't very useful, anything over 48" is hard to evenly light w/ a speedlight.
Uneven illumination isn't necessarily "bad" and it tends to exist w/ all modifiers to some extent, but it is kind of contrary to what you are trying to achieve w/ a softbox.
 
I don't agree with that, and IMO the testing process is flawed.

It's true that softboxes don't actually "eat" light, in fact they make pretty efficient use of light. What actually happens is that they disperse light over a large area, so the greater the distance from softbox front to subject, the more light appears to be lost - but that also occurs with most light modifiers.

The problem is that softboxes (the conventional type with the light coming through the back) are designed to be used without a reflector, so that the light can bounce around off of the walls and then end up lighting the front diffuser fairly evenly. A hotshoe flash simply can't do that, although the least bad results are obtained when set to the widest possible angle and with a Stofen type diffuser fitted to it.

Measuring the fall of of light from centre to edge at a distance of 6' just produces skewed figures - the readings need to be taken with the light meter in contact with the front diffuser, where the meter can measure the reality.
Typically, softboxes need to be capable of being used almost in contact with the subject when required

Agree that on the link he doesn't appear to be measuring fall-off properly, but he does have a point in that softboxes are not that hard to fill well enough with a speedlight. So here are some tests I've just done, measuring the brightness with an incident meter reading held against the front surface of the softbox. I've put all readings from the centre at zero for ease of comparison.

Elinchrom 66cm square softbox, single diffuser
Canon 580EX with zoom head at 24mm: Centre 0.0, Edge -1.1, Corner -2.1
580EX with 14mm wide-panel: Centre 0.0, Edge -0.7, Corner -1.6
580EX with Stofen: Centre 0.0, Edge -1.4, Corner -2.2
Elinchrom studio head: Centre 0.0, Edge -1.0, Corner -1.5

Lencarta 100x70cm Profold softbox, double diffuser
Canon 580EX with zoom head at 24mm: Centre 0.0, Near edge 0.0, Far edge +0.2, Corner -0.7
580EX with 14mm wide-panel: Centre 0.0, Near edge +0.5, Far edge +0.4, Corner +0.5
580EX with Stofen: Centre 0.0, Near edge +0.2, Far edge 0.0, Corner +0.2
Elinchrom studio head: Centre 0.0, Near edge +0.6, Far edge +0.2, Corner +0.4

Summary: with a single-diffuser softbox like the basic Elinchrom kit 66x66cm, you will always get some fall-off. A speedlite with wide panel works better than a Sofen, at least in this example, and is just as good as using a studio head. BTW, with the Stofen fitted, zooming the flash head makes bu99er all difference. You can get better results with a Stofen by making a few holes in the sides and/or top, and a bit of trial and error.

First thing to say about the Lencarta 100x70 Profolder is it performs much better, and despite being quite a big softbox (120cm corner to corner) it has double-diffusers. A double-diffuser makes more difference to even light distribution than the type of flash unit used. Also note that the Lencarta has a central umbrella push-up mechanism, and this shades the centre very slightly. Without that, the centre might be perhaps 0.3-0.5 stops brighter, though that's just a guess. Otherwise, the real world difference between the different lighting methods is not really worth worrying about.
 
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I don't agree with that, and IMO the testing process is flawed.

It's true that softboxes don't actually "eat" light, in fact they make pretty efficient use of light. What actually happens is that they disperse light over a large area, so the greater the distance from softbox front to subject, the more light appears to be lost - but that also occurs with most light modifiers.

The problem is that softboxes (the conventional type with the light coming through the back) are designed to be used without a reflector, so that the light can bounce around off of the walls and then end up lighting the front diffuser fairly evenly. A hotshoe flash simply can't do that, although the least bad results are obtained when set to the widest possible angle and with a Stofen type diffuser fitted to it.

Measuring the fall of of light from centre to edge at a distance of 6' just produces skewed figures - the readings need to be taken with the light meter in contact with the front diffuser, where the meter can measure the reality.
Typically, softboxes need to be capable of being used almost in contact with the subject when required
<prefix> Garry i've read and watched a lot of your incredibly useful, insightful and helpful posts / videos, huge amount of respect for your knowledge :)

Personally i wouldn't say the testing is flawed as such. *If* the softbox is used 6' away from the subject then the figures are wholly relevant, a speedlite can be fired into a large softbox giving even lighting at that distance. Granted most softbox usage as noted is a lot closer to the subject, typically just out of frame. But the observations in the link are valid under those circumstances (6').

And i agree wholeheartedly that a reading taken direct from the surface of the diffuser in the centre vs the edges will be markedly different producing a noticeable hot spot. But unless your subject has got their face literally pressed against the diffuser that testing methodology is also only relevant under those particular circumstances. So you could equally say that testing process is flawed when it isn't, it just has to be taken in context.

My point being speedlite's and softboxes are not something that are as Phil put it "a mismatch". The combination just changes the quality and characteristics of the light produced. Provided those characteristics are understood the two can be used very effectively (**not saying you said otherwise btw**).
 
<prefix> Garry i've read and watched a lot of your incredibly useful, insightful and helpful posts / videos, huge amount of respect for your knowledge :)

Personally i wouldn't say the testing is flawed as such. *If* the softbox is used 6' away from the subject then the figures are wholly relevant, a speedlite can be fired into a large softbox giving even lighting at that distance. Granted most softbox usage as noted is a lot closer to the subject, typically just out of frame. But the observations in the link are valid under those circumstances (6').

And i agree wholeheartedly that a reading taken direct from the surface of the diffuser in the centre vs the edges will be markedly different producing a noticeable hot spot. But unless your subject has got their face literally pressed against the diffuser that testing methodology is also only relevant under those particular circumstances. So you could equally say that testing process is flawed when it isn't, it just has to be taken in context.

My point being speedlite's and softboxes are not something that are as Phil put it "a mismatch". The combination just changes the quality and characteristics of the light produced. Provided those characteristics are understood the two can be used very effectively (**not saying you said otherwise btw**).

If a softbox is not evenly illuminated, a hot-spot will translate into a brighter central pool of light on the subject; if it's severe, it will affect the way shadows are cast. It may not be as pronounced compared to measuring across the face of a softbox, and it may not matter much with some subjects, but it will be there. Perhaps more importantly, if specula reflections appear with a hot-spot, that always looks naff IMHO and may be unacceptable.
 

Softboxes aren't used at 6' though, that test might as well have shown the effect of jelly babies on the inverse square law.

As Richard said, hotspots do mess with the way shadows are formed, which is, let's face it; the whole point of us trying to modify and control light.

It's not as if I said, 'don't put a speed light in a softbox' I said that it's not ideal and offered advice to mitigate the issues.
 
Softboxes aren't used at 6' though, that test might as well have shown the effect of jelly babies on the inverse square law.
I never realised softboxes were never used at 6 foot :confused: and not sure where your jelly bean comment came from, just makes you appear childish. If you want to join an adult conversation please feel free.

If a softbox is not evenly illuminated, a hot-spot will translate into a brighter central pool of light on the subject; if it's severe, it will affect the way shadows are cast. It may not be as pronounced compared to measuring across the face of a softbox, and it may not matter much with some subjects, but it will be there. Perhaps more importantly, if specula reflections appear with a hot-spot, that always looks naff IMHO and may be unacceptable.
Agreed, i imagine the hot spot and fall off would need to be quite pronounced for it to impact severely but of course entirely possible and not something i've seen or tested so i bow to superior knowledge :).

I appreciate your previous post as well. The data from the 70 x 100 double diffuser softbox was similar to what i found when i did my own testing on my 70 x 100 stable imaging softbox (also has the internal diffuser) using a Lumidisc on my LM directed at various point across its surface at practical distances away from it in my case.
 
Easy way to see how evenly a softbox is illuminated, without a meter, is to use blinkies.

Shoot it from the front square on, and adjust exposure so it's around the blinkies threshold. Then tweak exposure so that blinkies are just flashing on the brightest part, and then increase exposure in 1/3rd stops until the whole softbox is blinking and note the exposure difference.

Do it at a high f/number to minimise lens vignetting, and avoid minimum flash power as brightness may vary a bit there from flash to flash. Adjust exposure with ISO rather than aperture, to eliminate vignetting variables.

I would say that evenness within 0.5 stops all over is a pretty high standard, and within 1.0 stops probably acceptable for most things.
 
I used a meter for my testing :)
Would you explain your whole methodology then, and your suitability for equipment testing? Rather than a sarky one liner! After all we're all adults here and so far all you've done is derailed the thread with a spurious link and no factual information to back up why you trust it.
 
Meter, blinkies, whatever - it doesn't matter as long as the testing is carried out properly and to a protocol, what matters is the results of those tests.
I never realised softboxes were never used at 6 foot :confused: and not sure where your jelly bean comment came from, just makes you appear childish. If you want to join an adult conversation please feel free.
Actually, softboxes are very likely to be used at 6' or so, especially by beginners.
A softbox is just a tool that makes the light bigger. People are often obsessed by size without having any understanding of the importance of size. Quite often, they don't understand the relevance of relative size, so they just get themselves a big softbox and assume
1. That a big softbox will give them soft light
2. That there's something necesarily good about having soft light
And once they've got their big softbox, they find that it takes up a lot of room and is always in the way, so they stick it somewhere out of the way, they use it just to provide sufficient quantity of light, with no regard for or understanding of the quality of the light. With people like this, the softbox is very likely to be used so far away from the subject that it doesn't even act as a softbox. For people like these, your testing protocol is valid - but although this type of usage may be fairly common, just as drunk driving is fairly common, it isn't right.

I appreciate your previous post as well. The data from the 70 x 100 double diffuser softbox was similar to what i found when i did my own testing on my 70 x 100 stable imaging softbox (also has the internal diffuser) using a Lumidisc on my LM directed at various point across its surface at practical distances away from it in my case.
Having a double diffuser doesn't make a softbox good, and doesn't bring with it, any kind of equality.
Years ago, before Lencarta came on the scene and before I was able to interfere with the design of their softboxes, I discovered Chimera.
At the time I was working in an advertising studio in NY NY and Chimera was what we had. When I returned to this country I discovered that none of the softboxes available over here were either designed or made to anywhere near the Chimera standard, so I bought a few, at silly prices. At that time I was doing a LOT of fashion photography and the thing that the Chimera softboxes had was that, in the right hands, they made cheap clothes look more expensive:) This was due to a combination of things, but very largely due to the qualities of the front diffuser, which allowed their softboxes to create high local contrast as well as low overall contrast. Using a cheap softbox may in fact create skewed figures because often, there is more light in the corners/at the edges than there should be, not becaues the hotshoe flashgun has filled the softbox well but because the inner diffuser doesn't reach the walls of the softbox!

Photography (generally) is a fairly high tech industry - you don't get lenses being made in someone's garden shed, but softboxes are very low tech and literally anyone can make them, and both East and South Asia is full of cottage industries that make badly designed softboxes from poor materials, with no understanding whatever of what it is that a softbox actually does. These people just copy another copy of another copy (etc) and all that matters to their makers is saving money - please don't assume that all softboxes are the same, they aren't.

When used by skilled lighting people, softboxes are a precision tool and as such the illumination they produce needs to be very even and very controlled. I suppose it's arguable that the people who use hotshoe flashguns in large softboxes may not notice uneven lighting, but the testing protocol should really be suited for every user, not just a sub section of them.

There is of course no such thing as the correct distance for a softbox, it depends on a lot of different factors, but there are times when a softbox has to be used so close that it is literally just out of shot - that's when even lighting becomes paramount.
Sometimes, we don't actually want to have even lighting, there was a question on this forum a few weeks ago about creating uneven lighting for a crash helmet, my answer to that one was to create uneven lighting deliberately.
And sometimes we need to create uneven lighting simply because one part of the subject is much closer to the light source than another, this lighting blog on photographing shoes mentions deliberately creating uneven lighting to achieve the required effect - but the uneven lighting is deliberate, it isn't down to chance.
Moving it closer would have caused unnecessary problems with light fall off, due to the effect of the inverse square law. The shot on the left does have patent leather in places, so the overhead softbox needed to be much closer. I got around the problem of the inverse square law simply by sticking a bit of neutral density gel over the left side of the softbox, to reduce the amount of light hitting the left side of the shoe, which is much nearer to the softbox.
 
Would you explain your whole methodology then, and your suitability for equipment testing? Rather than a sarky one liner!
No.

As for a sarky comment, what kind of reply do you expect when a professional photographer such as yourself says "Softboxes aren't used at 6' though".

After all we're all adults here and so far all you've done is derailed the thread with a spurious link and no factual information to back up why you trust it.
In my first reply when i linked off site i apologised for potentially taking the thread OT but still felt it was a worthy discussion point. And byenlarge it has been a very interesting read since although yes it has gone off at a tangent.

I don't feel the need to provide you with factual information why i trust the data in the link. Why should i?
 
Actually, softboxes are very likely to be used at 6' or so, especially by beginners.
Indeed, a softbox can be used at any distance that suits the lighting required. Hence my slightly sarky reply directed at Phil when he said they weren't used at 6'.

Having a double diffuser doesn't make a softbox good, and doesn't bring with it, any kind of equality.
I always figured the double diffuser was just a part of the design to try and get an even spread of light internally before it hits the external diffuser. More to suit speedlite usage than studio strobe i guess?

please don't assume that all softboxes are the same, they aren't.
Yeah i don't imagine for one second my cheap off brand softboxes are engineered to the same standards as Lencarta, Wescott, Profoto etc. Quality and kit to aspire eventually :)

Sometimes, we don't actually want to have even lighting, there was a question on this forum a few weeks ago about creating uneven lighting for a crash helmet, my answer to that one was to create uneven lighting deliberately.
Yeah read with much interest at the time, a shower curtain (if i remember correctly, it's on my shopping list ;)).
 
Have I done something to offend you in a previous thread? Because I really can't see the justification for your 'attacks' in this thread.

You have done nothing but misquote and misconstrue my posts, whilst cosying up to Garry (who's basically agreeing with me)

What's more:
I used a meter for my testing :)
turns into:
...In my first reply when i linked off site i apologised for potentially taking the thread OT but still felt it was a worthy discussion point. And byenlarge it has been a very interesting read since although yes it has gone off at a tangent.

I don't feel the need to provide you with factual information why i trust the data in the link. Why should i?
So; You just made that up then? You haven't actually done the test and yet you expect people who have done tests to just roll over and accept that site? :D

Then to add to the insult, whilst you're cosying up to Garry...
...
Yeah read with much interest at the time, a shower curtain (if i remember correctly, it's on my shopping list ;)).

From here (yes it was me who mentioned the shower curtain):
... Then I remembered I recently bought a new shower curtain pole, and inside the box was a white shower curtain (it nearly went straight in the bin:confused:) Perfect for something like this, or cheap white muslin background stretched on a frame and lit from behind with a softbox.

And the jelly babies:banghead:

In the business of people photography, we try to maintain a sense of humour;) I know - Eventually you got me to fail.
 
Hi Phil, don't think you've offend me in a previous thread. Don't think we've even crossed paths before. Not sure where you think i'm attacking you, but there is the RTM function if you feel that is the case.

I used a meter for my testing :)

So; You just made that up then? You haven't actually done the test and yet you expect people who have done tests to just roll over and accept that site? :D
My reply reference the meter was directed towards Richard who in his previous post had referenced how to check a softbox was being illuminated evenly using blinkies. I did actually test things for myself, i stated that earlier in this thread. Richard posted an excellent reply with numbers and raw data which was much fuller and a more complete explanation than i could ever hope for. He actually tested the same size softbox i'd used and came to a similar conclusion.

The shower curtain reference i remembered from Garry's post as it stuck in my mind because of the term 'silks' that i'd not come across before, together with the L glass in his post. It just lodged in the old grey matter.
 
What an interesting read this thread is... I have 60cm x 60cm softboxes and a 100cm octabox. To get the light to hit my subject with a similar level of "brightness" I would have to move my smaller softboxes much closer - but the light, as a result would be much more harsh... and concentrated. The larger octabox gives me much more options, great at 6ft.... where the 60cm softboxes would require my lights to be cranked up - it all depends on preference though... or rather, if you are trying to replicate a niche effect (yes niche, not nice... although nice may well apply also).

TBH - I'm not sure if what I just wrote is even correct lol
 
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I don't think so....
A light source closer becomes less harsh (relatively larger)... but you also have to turn the power down.


Strange, I'd have thought a light source close to the subject would be more "spotted" and give a much brighter level of light as the same source from a short distance, where I would expect the light spread to be wider and softer. My post and your response have confused me! lol
 
Simply: the larger the light source, the softer the shadows. Size is relative to distance, eg the sun is big but a long way off, so casts hard shadows. Size is also relative to the subject, so a small flash gun when shooting macro of a fly would be relatively large and would therefore cast soft shadows.

Brightness falls off rapidly with distance, broadly following the inverse square law, so if the distance is doubled, the brightness is reduced to one quarter.

You seem to be confusing light coverage, in terms of projected angle and physical area, with softness. Not the same at all.
 
I'm glad I didn't read threads like this before going out and taking some pictures.....honestly, the Lighting forum has become as angry as the business forum but with more graphs.

I've said before, I like these http://www.amazon.co.uk/EZ-Fold-Diffusers-Ballhead-Portable-Speedlite/dp/B002W9G8VM/

60 cm seems to be a good compromise between sticking it in a bag and not scaring people. Never measured falloff and whatnot but they can do a nice job.
 
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