What3words

Gremlin said:
So where do I pay the bill, never been asked, so to me it is free
Please explain where I personally am paying for it, if by donation that is a choice
not compulsory
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You are paying for it in the same way you pay for ITV, or similar. Not a choice.
 
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My daughter sent me the three words for a camp-site she was staying at. I checked out of interest, and the three words showed her to be half a mile from her actual location.

She used the app again, same words. Sent them to me again, same result.

I took it up with the developers, sending them (a) the three words, and (b) OS co-ords taken by my daughter at the site which showed her correct location when I checked on an OS map, (both on a paper map and on-line)

End result from the developers? Must be us!

Lesson? Treat MTW with caution!
 
Pound Coin said:
Here are some thoughts on W3W, in a blog.
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Wow - they really seem to have upset you :D

Anyway, I couldn't see the point of W3W - i's just another geolocation scheme and we seem to have plenty of those.

But I spend a bit of time outdoors now and again and sometimes it's pretty much off the beaten track. One day I saw a blog post by the search and rescue teams that I would rely on if something terrible happened. They asked me to install W3W on my phone. So I did. It seemed the least I could do to help them.



(BTW in case you're worried, if I'm *seriously* outdoors then I'll have (1) phone with GPS, Google maps, emergency contact numbers AND W3W (2) a watch that will show GPS location (dual system in case that nice Mr Trump decides to turn his off (3) Old school map and compass - you can't be too careful, right?)
 
Pound Coin said:
You are paying for it in the same way you pay for ITV, or similar. Not a choice.
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You are beginning to sound a bit of "foil hatter" over this.

As Marc has said, please explain how I am paying for this App?
 
JonathanRyan said:
Wow - they really seem to have upset you :D

Anyway, I couldn't see the point of W3W - i's just another geolocation scheme and we seem to have plenty of those.

But I spend a bit of time outdoors now and again and sometimes it's pretty much off the beaten track. One day I saw a blog post by the search and rescue teams that I would rely on if something terrible happened. They asked me to install W3W on my phone. So I did. It seemed the least I could do to help them.



(BTW in case you're worried, if I'm *seriously* outdoors then I'll have (1) phone with GPS, Google maps, emergency contact numbers AND W3W (2) a watch that will show GPS location (dual system in case that nice Mr Trump decides to turn his off (3) Old school map and compass - you can't be too careful, right?)
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wot, no paper map!
 
Problem with harvey's is they don't cover the whole of the uk. AFAIK
 
munch said:
Problem with harvey's is they don't cover the whole of the uk. AFAIK
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Is that a problem if they do cover the area in which you are walking?

This whole thread is becoming utterly bizarre. Live and let live people.
 
munch said:
You are beginning to sound a bit of "foil hatter" over this.

As Marc has said, please explain how I am paying for this App?
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In the same way that you pay for anything that appears to be free.
 
Pound Coin said:
In the same way that you pay for anything that appears to be free.
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Ah yes... invisible mind money... Cost me damn fortune on all these free apps and services I use.

I would assume he is referring to advertising.. But again, we don't pay for that, the advertisers do. So his remark is still stupid.
 
TCR4x4 said:
Cost me damn fortune on all these free apps and services I use.
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I just wish I could spend what TP has earned from me...
 
Agree with a lot of what Jannyfox says.

Yes it’s another ‘standard’ but
Easier to remember
More accurate than postcode: 3m x 3m grid is pretty much guaranteed to hit the spot.
No confusion over degrees / min / secs or the two decimal formats or datum formats (OSGB36 or WGS84) - these two can be ~50 miles apart for the same number
Supported by UK emergency services.

However,
Many GPS/PNDs (TomTom etc) don’t support it
Most cars don’t support it - I think Mercedes are the only manufacturer that does on their newer cars.
Converting from W3W to something a car/PND supports is a PITA as manual tool on W3W website.

Over the years I have become disillusioned with postcode navigation as they get you close but not close enough.

W3W is a good standard and doesn’t require technical knowledge.
 
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Was it ever intended to be used by satnavs? All my destinations are stored as lat/long in my satnav (they do tend to be a bit obscure).
Try to find my house using the postcode and you could be lost for weeks. It's not even where the address says it is...............
 
There is no reason why it can’t be - assuming you pick a square near a road. However virtually all SatNav core applications were devised before W3W was launched so don’t support it.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Wow - they really seem to have upset you :D
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Nah, I'm not upset.

It's a new, unnecessary system aiming to make money out of gaining market by getting people to say "It's wonderful!, what haven't we had something like this before..."

When there are several somethings there now.

(One of which is plastic maps :p)
 
sirch said:
It's been around for 7 years...
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And after 7 years it still managed to lose £26m on a turnover of £666k in the last two years...
 
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Pound Coin said:
And after 7 years it still managed to lose £26m on a turnover of £666k in the last two years...
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Thought you didn't like it because of all the money we were paying for it?
 
Have to say im with Pound Coin on this. W3W have created and marketed a proprietary standard which experts in the field have been very critical about the implementation.
They are then charging developing nations to use this proprietary technology. These nations are basing a lot of their infrastructure around the technology. My crystal ball says that these nations will be charged a LOT of money in the future for a technology where better versions exist that are genuinely free and open source.

So, remember that

W3W is a closed and proprietary system, with opaque licencing, hefty pricing, and poor internationalisation. It does have a very good PR team though.

and

Whenever you see people mentioning What3Words, politely remind them that it is not an open standard and should be avoided.
 
redsnappa said:
Not when there are 800-1000 properties covered by one postcode.
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There aren't. In fact the problem with using postcodes for navigation is exactly the opposite - postcodes are aggregated by how much post they expect to receive. So when I worked in the City, half a floor of one building had its own postcode. For domestic addresses, it's roughly 20 house per postcode. In towns that's a street - in the countryside it can be miles.

This is a really interesting site if you like these things - https://www.doogal.co.uk/ukpostcodes.php

Pound Coin said:
It's a new, unnecessary system aiming to make money out of gaining market by getting people to say "It's wonderful!, what haven't we had something like this before..."
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And yet, the people we rely on to save us from danger say use it.....

For example, if I give a lat/long and one of the digits gets garbled, it give a plausible location miles from where I am. If I give a W3W location and one of the words is misheard it says I'm in Ecuador - rescuers can recheck with me or even use a fuzzy search to figure out where I am based on rough location and 2 words.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
I'm not paying anything.

They might be generating advertising revenue from my use of it, but it is not costing me anything.
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Think you're wasting your time tbh Andy. He'll just keep telling you that you're paying but obviously has no desire to actually explain how.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
I'm not paying anything.

They might be generating advertising revenue from my use of it, but it is not costing me anything.
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I think the differentiation here is the old 'free as in beer vs free as in speech' analogy.
That this tool isn’t open and deterministic is / should-be a problem for any semi-technical person.
 
Gremlin said:
Any one else have this app and had to use it ?

www.bbc.co.uk

What3words: The app that can save your life

Police want everyone to download a smartphone app they say has already saved several lives.
www.bbc.co.uk

As I often walk on my own I have downloaded it and it seems to work ok outside, but when I try it indoors
it's often a couple of squares out
I like the way it doesn't need an internet connection to find you
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Back in the 1980s, my mother enjoyed walking over the hills, going to places like Lake District, Scottish Highlands, Brecon Beacons, and so on. When I was a kid growing up, my mother would always take me out for walks like that. In my teens, I studied grid reference on OS maps.

I know how to read maps and understand grid reference, so if I needed help, I can always give the grid reference to the emergency services.

I assume that those what-three-words apps are mainly for people who rely heavily on digital map apps on their smartphones and have no idea how to read maps because they let technology show them where they are.
 
Major Eazy said:
Back in the 1980s, my mother enjoyed walking over the hills, going to places like Lake District, Scottish Highlands, Brecon Beacons, and so on. When I was a kid growing up, my mother would always take me out for walks like that. In my teens, I studied grid reference on OS maps.

I know how to read maps and understand grid reference, so if I needed help, I can always give the grid reference to the emergency services.

I assume that those what-three-words apps are mainly for people who rely heavily on digital map apps on their smartphones and have no idea how to read maps because they let technology show them where they are.
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Sort of, but perhaps a bit harsh . . .
The beauty of W3W is its simplicity, not the fact that it can be used by simple people. Communicating a grid reference accurately - and it being received accurately - over a dodgy mobile phone connection in a very rural area where mobile signals can be very poor (when they work at all) is prone to error and to the help being sent to the wrong place.

Conversely, a simple message such as "injured, need ambulance what 3 words thomas dot always dot surprise" will give the emergency services the precise location they need with very little risk of error or confusion.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Sort of, but perhaps a bit harsh . . .
The beauty of W3W is its simplicity, not the fact that it can be used by simple people. Communicating a grid reference accurately - and it being received accurately - over a dodgy mobile phone connection in a very rural area where mobile signals can be very poor (when they work at all) is prone to error and to the help being sent to the wrong place.

Conversely, a simple message such as "injured, need ambulance what 3 words thomas dot always dot surprise" will give the emergency services the precise location they need with very little risk of error or confusion.
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Actually when giving out gird ref in numbers, I always repeat it.
 
Major Eazy said:
Actually when giving out gird ref in numbers, I always repeat it.
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But errors can still happen - would you repeat the word "gird"? :)
And when people are in urgent need of help they can easily become disorientated, confused and pretty incapable.
 
I've just been out for a run. I was on the cliff top and heard a lot of shouting near the beach. It was 3 miles before I got there. By that time we have paramedics treating injured "rescuers" and S&R giving last known position to the coastguard. Now we have coastguard, fishing boats and jet skis screaming up the coast.

There are no postcodes at sea, nobody takes a map and compass on a paddleboard and to use Google maps you'll need an allowance of French data and a decent connection. But most people have phones on paddleboards (because, selfies) - all they need is a voice connection to 112 and W3W. If the jet skis find the missing people then I'm pretty sure they will use W3W to bring in the helicopter I can hear overhead.
 
Marc said:
Think you're wasting your time tbh Andy. He'll just keep telling you that you're paying but obviously has no desire to actually explain how.
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Not at all. Everyone is, or will be paying for it in a similar way to how we all pay for Facebook, whether that be in advertising, reduction of other communication methods, and skewing of attitudes and knowledge to benefit a select group.

if W3W becomes the de facto method of location finding, a private company with a closed algorithm will be used by our emergency services and we will pay. The main argument that we aren’t paying for it at the moment lies in the fact mentioned up thread that the company has only generated £500k of income over the last two years and the £26M needed to run it in that time has been found elsewhere.

On a grid the squares next to each other are related numerically, so you know or can easily work out the code for the location next to you. With W3W there is no connection, you have no idea what is next to you and no way of deciphering the code without access to the algorithm.
 
Major Eazy said:
Back in the 1980s, my mother enjoyed walking over the hills, going to places like Lake District, Scottish Highlands, Brecon Beacons, and so on. When I was a kid growing up, my mother would always take me out for walks like that. In my teens, I studied grid reference on OS maps.

I know how to read maps and understand grid reference, so if I needed help, I can always give the grid reference to the emergency services.

I assume that those what-three-words apps are mainly for people who rely heavily on digital map apps on their smartphones and have no idea how to read maps because they let technology show them where they are.
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Why wouldn't use technology when you can? Don't get me wrong, when you start getting into more "remote" areas I think you should have a map and compass and know how to use them.

But certainly on most of the walks I do, a physical map isn't needed. But I do have a look at my OS map ( either physically or on the computer)before I go out, and have the digit version on my phone.
 
Pound Coin said:
Not at all. Everyone is, or will be paying for it in a similar way to how we all pay for Facebook, whether that be in advertising, reduction of other communication methods, and skewing of attitudes and knowledge to benefit a select group.

if W3W becomes the de facto method of location finding, a private company with a closed algorithm will be used by our emergency services and we will pay. The main argument that we aren’t paying for it at the moment lies in the fact mentioned up thread that the company has only generated £500k of income over the last two years and the £26M needed to run it in that time has been found elsewhere.

On a grid the squares next to each other are related numerically, so you know or can easily work out the code for the location next to you. With W3W there is no connection, you have no idea what is next to you and no way of deciphering the code without access to the algorithm.
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Yet you knew what everyone meant by "paying". The app is free to use, we don't pay for advertising and I'm really not sure how using a location app skews attitudes and knowledge to benefit a select group but I suppose you're free to wear tinfoil hats and spread fear.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I've just been out for a run. I was on the cliff top and heard a lot of shouting near the beach. It was 3 miles before I got there. By that time we have paramedics treating injured "rescuers" and S&R giving last known position to the coastguard. Now we have coastguard, fishing boats and jet skis screaming up the coast.

There are no postcodes at sea, nobody takes a map and compass on a paddleboard and to use Google maps you'll need an allowance of French data and a decent connection. But most people have phones on paddleboards (because, selfies) - all they need is a voice connection to 112 and W3W. If the jet skis find the missing people then I'm pretty sure they will use W3W to bring in the helicopter I can hear overhead.
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Using new technology to save lives? Nonsense. Those people don't need what3words, helicopters, jet skis or anything else. Someone should have run to the nearest lifeboat station and the crew could have carried their rowing boat to the location by horse and cart and then launched - that's how they did it in the good old days before this unnecessary and new-fangled interwebby thingie.
Pound Coin said:
On a grid the squares next to each other are related numerically, so you know or can easily work out the code for the location next to you. With W3W there is no connection, you have no idea what is next to you and no way of deciphering the code without access to the algorithm.
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If you had it you'd know that as soon as you launch the programme the 3 words that you need are clearly displayed. There's also a map, your 3x3m location is shown in a square, with an arrow leading to it, and the map confirms exactly where you are. And, if you want to be anal about it, you can press a button to show you where you are on Google earth, or press another one to show you where you are on a map - so yes, you do know exactly where you are in relation to a map, nearby features and everything else.
 
Pound Coin said:
On a grid the squares next to each other are related numerically, so you know or can easily work out the code for the location next to you. With W3W there is no connection, you have no idea what is next to you and no way of deciphering the code without access to the algorithm.
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I still don't understand what the issue is. Why do I need to know the algorithm?

Let's turn this back to photography, do you think Adobe would give you the algorithms they use for Photoshop?
No they wouldn't as it is their intellectual property.
 
Major Eazy said:
I assume that those what-three-words apps are mainly for people who rely heavily on digital map apps on their smartphones and have no idea how to read maps because they let technology show them where they are.
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Yes and no. How many times have you heard reports of rescuers bringing people off the hills who've got into difficulties because they don't have a map (or have one and don't know how to use it)? Before technology they would have died. People still die out there, just not so often. Maybe there's an argument for pulling the plug on technology so more people die - let them find out the hard way that common sense is not that common these days.
But there will be others who do everything right and get into difficulties through no fault of their own. I've been walking alone since my teens, when the height of technology in my school maths class was a slide rule. I've always carried a map and compass, and I use them all the time. However if I fall down an old turf tie I can't see and break my leg with no help around am I going to work out a grid ref from my map then try to remember it while I'm rolling around in agony or am I going to open up W3W on my phone? Let me just think about this..............
 
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