Whatever happened to Camera-craft?

jerry12953 said:
It sometimes seems to me that so called, and very sought-after, art photographers deliberately renounced technical excellence and were successful for that very reason. It seemed to give them extra cred amongst the gullible ones........:eek:
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shh you aren't allowed to say that... next you'll be suggesting that the emperor is naked and who knows where that'll lead :LOL:
 
jerry12953 said:
Technical excellence in art photography.....?

It sometimes seems to me that so called, and very sought-after, art photographers deliberately renounced technical excellence and were successful for that very reason. It seemed to give them extra cred amongst the gullible ones........:eek:
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That's right... no technical excellence at all.

I see your point. Your work is so much better :)

big soft moose said:
shh you aren't allowed to say that... next you'll be suggesting that the emperor is naked and who knows where that'll lead :LOL:
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And I've yet to see anything you've shot.
 
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jerry12953 said:
Despite the smiley, I suspect that comment has a health warning attached........

But I'm thinking of how to post my latest project. I guess the personal project section is the place.
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yeah go for it - the personal project section isn't just for beard stroking art - reclaim it for the people :LOL: but don't forget to tell everyone that ever since you were a student you've been fascinated by the nature of being qua being and with influences as diverse as Viz and Kierkegaard your work explores the pretentiousness of being a paradigm of itself ... after all all photos need words they don't just speak for themselves.... or something
 
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You've made your point already! I do agree with you about some of the BS that it seems obligatory to include with a body of work; especially if you're at art college. I want to curl up and die every time I read about a young photographer exploring their identity through their work........

However, I do feel it is necessary to explain how one's work came about. I've published and exhibited my work several times over the years and it is something I have always wanted and needed to do. I'll attach the artist's statement with the rest of the stuff. It'll be in the personal projects section.
 
jerry12953 said:
You've made your point already! I do agree with you about some of the BS that it seems obligatory to include with a body of work; especially if you're at art college. I want to curl up and die every time I read about a young photographer exploring their identity through their work........

However, I do feel it is necessary to explain how one's work came about. I've published and exhibited my work several times over the years and it is something I have always wanted and needed to do. I'll attach the artist's statement with the rest of the stuff. It'll be in the personal projects section.
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I suspect the students don't know any different they are just told that that's the sort of crap they are expected to write,

I'm working on a source to mouth project on the river Exe - I'll post that in the projects section too once ive got some worthwhile shots, but I think i'll subscribe to the campaign for simple english in the description, as in "this project documents the river Exe from source to mouth"
 
jerry12953 said:
But I'm thinking of how to post my latest project. I guess the personal project section is the place.
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The bird project? Yes please. :)
 
I've always wondered why the end of the river where all the stuff spews out is called the mouth. Seems a bit arsey-versey, linguistically speaking.
 
[QUOTE="big soft moose, post: 6933658, member: 39650]

I'm working on a source to mouth project on the river Exe - I'll post that in the projects section too once ive got some worthwhile shots, but I think i'll subscribe to the campaign for simple english in the description, as in "this project documents the river Exe from source to mouth"[/QUOTE]

That's a really good start! But as you work on it you might come up with some new insights into the river or yourself or the way the two interact. That's the sort of thing that develop during a project and make interesting reading. It doesn't have to be BS.
 
chris malcolm said:
I've always wondered why the end of the river where all the stuff spews out is called the mouth. Seems a bit arsey-versey, linguistically speaking.
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probably because people would object to living in places called Exearse or Weyrectum (more seriously i think it is probably a mouth because that's how ships etc go in from the sea)
 
jerry12953 said:
Despite the smiley, I suspect that comment has a health warning attached........

But I'm thinking of how to post my latest project. I guess the personal project section is the place.
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I look forward to seeing it.

big soft moose said:
I suspect the students don't know any different they are just told that that's the sort of crap they are expected to write,

I'm working on a source to mouth project on the river Exe - I'll post that in the projects section too once ive got some worthwhile shots, but I think i'll subscribe to the campaign for simple english in the description, as in "this project documents the river Exe from source to mouth"
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Ditto. Seriously... be nice to actually see you take a photograph instead of slagging off everyone else's. You do know that's been done several times already though don't you?

big soft moose said:
yeah go for it - the personal project section isn't just for beard stroking art - reclaim it for the people :LOL:
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So long as it's not a pointless 52 or 365, and is a body of work about something for a purpose then of course. Who has suggested it's just for beard stroking art... apart from you?

I do wish you'd stop being such a child sometimes.
 
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Unfortunately trolls don't have enough under bridge storage space to own serious photographic equipment.


Steve.
 
Only one problem when you are near a photographer or photographers shooting several frames per second. I am usually trying to shoot some video at the time. So when you view it back it sounds as though you are in a war zone.
 
Tom Curtis said:
Only one problem when you are near a photographer or photographers shooting several frames per second. I am usually trying to shoot some video at the time. So when you view it back it sounds as though you are in a war zone.
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Another aspect of Camera Craft - respect for others?
 
Funny you mentioned this Barry, it was my overwhelming memory from visiting Bempton last month ... I guess some are trying to get just the right image from amongst a series of 'machine-gunning' but it certainly is distracting.
 
Tom Curtis said:
Only one problem when you are near a photographer or photographers shooting several frames per second. I am usually trying to shoot some video at the time. So when you view it back it sounds as though you are in a war zone.
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big soft moose said:
How about a troll - can they outshoot an experienced tog as well , or do they find their fingers too big for the shutter button and all the grease from eating raw goats makes the grips slippery ?
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pots and kettles etc.
 
Pookeyhead said:
pots and kettles etc.
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not really - disagreeing with you doesn't make someone a troll -

posting s*** like " even a monkey can out shoot a pro tog" and then leaving the thread on the other hand...
 
Pookeyhead said:
pots and kettles etc.
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not really - disagreeing with you doesn't make someone a troll -

posting s*** like " even a monkey can out shoot a pro tog" and then leaving the thread on the other hand...

Pookeyhead said:
Seriously... be nice to actually see you take a photograph instead of slagging off everyone else's. You do know that's been done several times already though don't you?
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I took about two and half thousand a couple of weekends back - of course that was commercial not art so I guess those don't count


Pookeyhead said:
So long as it's not a pointless 52 or 365,
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what gives you the authority to decide that a 52 is less worthy than any other project

Pookeyhead said:
I do wish you'd stop being such a child sometimes.
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- the irony being that the reason you feel threatened by my not falling down and worshiping your frequently mediocre photography (Imo of course) is because i'm not a child, instead being an articulate adult who doesn't think that because you happen to lecture at a third rate ex polytechnic you are an unchangeable photographic god
 
big soft moose said:
I took about two and half thousand a couple of weekends back - of course that was commercial not art so I guess those don't count
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Of course you did.
 
big soft moose said:
what gives you the authority to decide that a 52 is less worthy than any other project
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Staff in here clearly agree, which is why they've created a new sub-forum for serious projects, and moved all the 52/365s out of there. Go and argue with them if you want, but why would you WANT to post 52/365s in the NEW projects forum unless it's just to make a childish point and cause trouble. Oh yeah.... that's your raison d'être isn't it. I keep forgetting that.
 
Camera craft died when digital became the norm and PS was so freely available to nearly all,
My motto is digital or Film get it right with the camera and you will get more satisfaction out of togging, rely on Photo editing and you are not really taking photographs are you?:exit:
 
Kingo9919 said:
Camera craft died when digital became the norm and PS was so freely available to nearly all,
My motto is digital or Film get it right with the camera and you will get more satisfaction out of togging, rely on Photo editing and you are not really taking photographs are you?:exit:
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Okay, I'll bite...
All photography relies on photo editing. The choices made in the dark room with film are analogous to editing RAW files with PS or Lightroom.
Shooting JPG and going with what you get "in camera" is analogous to taking your film to Boots to get developed and printed. The camera still records in RAW but the software edits the image, and discards much of the data, according to what the camera's software manufacturers deem a "one size fits all" processing protocol for most photography. You shoot JPG and you're handing over control of many creative decisions to the company that made your camera. The camera will make decisions on sharpness, contrast, saturation, etc. Just like Boots' darkroom/processing practices are designed to be one size fits all for most film photography.
The idea of the "unprocessed, in-camera shot" is at best a myth and at worst a meaningless absurdity. With both digital and film.
 
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, when I say get it right in camera I mean in the principles of photography, like the right exposure being selected instead of taking the shot with the attitude of if its a bit light or dark I can sort it in PS, selecting the right WB instead of sorting it in Ps, getting the framing and composition right instead of oh I can clone that out or well with a few layers I can add that bit I missed in PS
Call me old fashioned but I learned photography the hard way when it could cost you a lot of money for wasted film and prin5ing cost if you got it wrong in the camera :):exit:
 
Kingo9919 said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, when I say get it right in camera I mean in the principles of photography, like the right exposure being selected instead of taking the shot with the attitude of if its a bit light or dark I can sort it in PS, selecting the right WB instead of sorting it in Ps, getting the framing and composition right instead of oh I can clone that out or well with a few layers I can add that bit I missed in PS
Call me old fashioned but I learned photography the hard way when it could cost you a lot of money for wasted film and prin5ing cost if you got it wrong in the camera :):exit:
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I'll bite :D

Unless you only ever shot slide film, that's complete b****x.
And if you did only shoot slide film, half of it is b****x, it's the same old b****x trotted out by every grandad who's jealous of the opportunities afforded in the modern world, but rather than celebrating them just whinges that they had it tough. What makes you think you can assume that no one is composing in camera, is there only you 'doing it right'? o_O

And yes I shot film for 20 years without autofocus and I'd be happy to prove it by doing it again tomorrow, and no I wouldn't go back by choice.
 
Steve Smith said:
Surely getting it right in camera is good advice whatever medium you are recording on. Then if you do continue with post processing you start off with something good which is better than starting off with something sub-standard which needs extra polishing.
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Of course!
 
The problem is in the wording. There is nothing wrong (and it is always worth doing) to get the best you can in camera, and I don't think anyone is arguing with this. Getting it right in camera however is probably impossible in the vast majority of shots.
 
Kingo9919 said:
Camera craft died when digital became the norm and PS was so freely available to nearly all,
My motto is digital or Film get it right with the camera and you will get more satisfaction out of togging, rely on Photo editing and you are not really taking photographs are you?:exit:
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Ansel Adams did more post production in the dark room than most of us do in PS, and the principles haven't changed, though you can do it sitting down now.
 
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I seem to have stirred an hornets nest, not my intention
Phil V said:
I'll bite :D

Unless you only ever shot slide film, that's complete b****x.
And if you did only shoot slide film, half of it is b****x, it's the same old b****x trotted out by every grandad who's jealous of the opportunities afforded in the modern world, but rather than celebrating them just whinges that they had it tough. What makes you think you can assume that no one is composing in camera, is there only you 'doing it right'? o_O

And yes I shot film for 20 years without autofocus and I'd be happy to prove it by doing it again tomorrow, and no I wouldn't go back by choice.
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If you feel that i have offended you in the way that i express my opinion then i am sorry, but to resort to using insulting language even with asterisks is not called for, and no i am not the only person doing it right, and i also get it wrong, but i always try to get a good photograph in camera and hopefully then make it a great one with PS, but i usually fail, But i keep tryingo_O
 
Kingo9919 said:
I seem to have stirred an hornets nest, not my intention

If you feel that i have offended you in the way that i express my opinion then i am sorry, but to resort to using insulting language even with asterisks is not called for, and no i am not the only person doing it right, and i also get it wrong, but i always try to get a good photograph in camera and hopefully then make it a great one with PS, but i usually fail, But i keep tryingo_O
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What insulting language?
 
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