Whats my options for first DSLR buy?

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Donny909

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Well seeing as I've reached the limits of what I feel is capable with my digital compact and it's abilities I've decided the time is right to have a go at DSLR for the first time.

I've a maximum budget of about £400. I know this is not to much compared to what some might spend, but I also know even that gives me quite a few options.

I've read numerous reviews on several cameras, but to be honest they are not really helping 1 camera stand out over another. As for as soon as I think I've found a DSLR camera that looks and sounds right for my first buy I then find a negative comment about it on the next review.

First off preferbly a new camera as I dont like the idea of buying used off the net, just personel preference. But not to bothered about buying used lenses as it seems I'd possably be able to save a lot in that area. However I would like a basic lens with the camera so I can use it out of the box so to speak. So I know new camera, less than £400 with cash left to buy a second lens will limit my option, if this way gives me any options for a second lens much at all lol.

I'd want to use it as just a general camera, not really for anything dedicated as such. But to be able to take close up pics, outdoor, low light & long distance is what comes to mind.

I am leaning towards a Sony Alpha A200 with the 18-70 lens as that would leave a fair wedge (about £140) for a used second lens. But I'm wandering if I'd get better lens options with a Cannon or Nikon?.

Any suggestions for a starter DSLR?.
 
Hi Donny, yes, you will get slightly better lens options, but as a first dslr pretty much any of those on the market will do the job nicely, the best advice is to pop along to a shop and try each one and buy the one that feels right...:thumbs:
 
+1
there isn't a bad current production DSLR but the one that you will use most is the 1 that you feel most comfortable with.

having said that (& acknowledging bias because I'm a Sony system user) I honestly do think that you will struggle to find better value than an A200 & at that price level I don't think that you will get better (or worse) lens options from either Canon or Nikon - they'll be much the same.
but make sure that the A200 (or a300 if you want Liveview) handling suits you.
 
Donny, you'll probably read this advice elsewhere, but anyway ...

Keep in mind that you're not just buying a camera, you're buying into a brand/system. There is surprisingly little cross-compatability between parts and accessories for all of the DSLR brands out there and so you will find yourself pretty well tied to whichever brand you choose.

For a first camera purchase, this doesn't usually seem like a problem, as a lot of people think that they will get everything that they will ever need in the starter kit ... and that's the end of it! Well, it might be true for some people, but for those who stick with it, it's often the beginning of a very long and expensive journey :D!

I myself started out by buying an Olympus E420 twin lens kit. For the price, it was the biggest bargain out there and it got me started (and ultimatley, hooked) on the hobby. The problems began when I started looking for better lenses and a flash gun :|. Sure, Olympus make them, but they won't fit any other brand and I knew that if money was no object, I'd rather have a full-frame sensor camera body (which Olympus don't make, AFAIK). It was at this early stage that I realised that I should have gone with a more major brand, as I didn't much care for the other stuff in the Olympus range and any accessories I bought wouldn't be able to be used with any future (non-Olympus) camera bodies which I might buy.

So, I switched to Nikon and now have a large selection of interchangeable kit :).

There's nothing at all wrong with Sony's DLSRs, IMO, but Sony haven't been in the DSLR game as long as the likes of Canon and Nikon and I really doubt that (as a huge corporation) their commitment to photographic equipment will last, if sales begin to dwindle :|. I'm probably being a touch over-concerned there, but Nikon don't make anything other than optical equipment and that's why I feel "safer" with them.

Anyway, those are just my personal preferences. All I'm saying is that it pays to think ahead, if you think that you might stick with the hobby.

Perhaps you should look higher up the ranges of whichever brands you are considering (as well as looking at all of the accessories available) and just see if they have products that you like there, too (and if the prices are OK). It could save you from "painting yourself into a corner" at a late date :thumbs:.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

(EDIT: Just noticed these threads, after I'd posted. They're typical examples of the kind of dilemmas that people have when they start to have doubts about the systems that they've bought into ...

Link ...
Link ... )
 
Naboo32 said:
There's nothing at all wrong with Sony's DLSRs, IMO, but Sony haven't been in the DSLR game as long as the likes of Canon and Nikon and I really doubt that (as a huge corporation) their commitment to photographic equipment will last, if sales begin to dwindle :|. I'm probably being a touch over-concerned there, but Nikon don't make anything other than optical equipment and that's why I feel "safer" with them.
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Sony may have not but Minolta were in SLRs since 1958 & Sony's DSLR division they bought from Konica Minolta.
Remember that Sony are #2/#1 (it tends to switch around) in all digital camera sales & their sensors are used by other camera manufacturers too (incl. in some Canon & most Nikons).
Nikon if anything are becoming more reliant on their photo business as their stepper business is in decline atm. However cameras are becoming more & more centred around the electronics side & less about the optic side - that's why KM sold it's camera division to Sony & why Panasonic & Samsung are up & coming.
Sony are now clear #3 in DSLR sales & the brand with the fastest growth (it doubled last year) in market share.
 
:D I Knew that I should have left that paragraph out!

The statistics that you have presented are very admirable, heidfirst, and just serve to illustrate how things can change in this industry. I wouldn't put too much stock into them though, as the fact (assuming that it is ;)) that Sony are 3rd in DSLR sales, probably just means that they sell a lot of A200s, as they are the cheapest DSLRs out there and many newcomers just go on price and with a name that they know. I still don't think that Sony have as much to offer higher up their range right now, compared to the two giants of the DLSR world - Canon and Nikon :shrug:!

Again, as I said, I have nothing against Sony products - I just didn't see the same level of quality and choice when I compared their entire range (as well as older items and third party accessories), to that of "the big two". Besides, my final decision was based on ergonomics and not economics ;).

Seriously though, none of us can predict the future with any great certainty and maybe in 5 years time, Nikon will have been taken over by another electronics giant (as Sony did to KM) :shrug:. It doesn't alter the fact that holding market share for selling (mostly) bottom of the range DLSRs doesn't necessarily reflect the range and quality of a company's lenses and other accessories :|.

Finally, sorry to Donny909 :(! I don't think that this has been such a helpful post aterall! Your head must be spinning by now :p!
 
I have a sony350 and I really love it. However the starter kit (camera and lens) is £400. There are lower models (which aren't a great deal different) but cheaper. The 300 is supposed to be considerably better than the 200 though.

I have 2 other lenses, neither are sony brand, just sony fit (sigma are the brand) and minolta fit also fit sony. You can also buy cheap filter lens things on ebay that give you a bit more zoom on your starter lens. (For a tenner uit's not a great loss if you don't like them).

If you don't want to get into photography as such nd wantto make a one off purchase, I'd suggest a hybrid, but to me it sounds like you do want to get more into photography, not just taking pretty pictures.

Go to a reputable (possibly independant!) shop and ask to "play" with some of their cameras, see what you like the feel of, what you like the functions etc. tell them your budget is £350 (or less, but slightly shorter than what it is) and ask what they can offer, what they can do etc.

Just a heads up, practical photography, if you sign up for a 6 month subscription now, they'll send you a free bag (the subscription is only about £15 or something) so that might be worth looking into.

Let us all know how you get on ;)
 
Naboo32 said:
I wouldn't put too much stock into them though, as the fact (assuming that it is ;)) that Sony are 3rd in DSLR sales, probably just means that they sell a lot of A200s, as they are the cheapest DSLRs out there and many newcomers just go on price and with a name that they know. I still don't think that Sony have as much to offer higher up their range right now, compared to the two giants of the DLSR world - Canon and Nikon :shrug:!
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It's incontrovertible that Sony are #3 - in some markets they are over 20% market share & indeed in at least 1 they were reported to be the no.1.
80% of DSLRs are "entry level" so yes, the bulk of their sales are A200/A300 etc. but then so are Canon & Nikon's volume sales entry level. However, Sony apparently sell more A3xx than A2xx.

Further up the range you currently have the A700 which imo is slightly superior to the 40D & 95% as good as the D300 for 50% of the cost.
This is about to be replaced (we believe by 2 new models A500 &A550) but also leaving room above for another APS-C to match the 50D & D300 facelift.

As far as full frame of course atm there is only 1 Sony, the A900.
It's been well received causing a few system defections but I would say more people to go multisystem as at the £2000 FF level the A900, 5D II & D700 all offer something different.
I wouldn't expect the A900 to be Sony's only FF body though.

I agree that currently Sony don't have as much further up the range but what there is is already good enough for 95% of people & Sony are filling the gaps all the time.
 
That explains why you prefer and are loyal to Sony, I suppose.

As I said, I have nothing against Sony - they were not the best brand to use an example of what I was talking about in my first post. I was simply trying to point out the whole "buying into a brand" ethic, which starts with most people's first DSLR purchase. If someone decides to jump ship at a later date, it can be a really costly business, as we all know.

Besides, I can only speak from my own experience, as indeed you have heidfirst, and so it would be hypocritical of me to come here and start waving the Sony (or any other non-Nikon brand) flag around :|.

[/DISCUSSION] ;)
 
Naboo32 said:
e all know.

Besides, I can only speak from my own experience, as indeed you have heidfirst, and so it would be hypocritical of me to come here and start waving the Sony (or any other non-Nikon brand) flag around :|.

[/DISCUSSION] ;)
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the only systems that I haven't used are 4/3 (tried it in the shop though) & Sigma's.
I've got plenty of friends who shoot Canon so I'm very familiar with that system, fewer on Nikon but enough to again be familiar.
My choice was based on ergonomics, performance & value - I prefer the Minolta derived ergonomics of the A700 & I don't like paying twice as much to gain 5% extra that I won't use anyway:p
On the other hand I paid more for the A700 than if I had bought a 40D but I thought that it was worth the premium (still do).

As I said earlier there isn't a bad current production DSLR but really you will struggle to find something that is better value than an A200 at entry level.
& for your average consumer there is more than enough of a system - it's been around for 24 years afterall ;).

Btw I don't believe that there is a single perfect system - they all have their gaps, older designs etc.
 
It's funny that how given a week to reflect of what I'd originally intended to buy has changed somewhat upon what given factors have been going through my head on any given day lol. But funny enough my choice has not really changed as of today than what it was a week ago.

As said my budget about the £400 mark for which I'd have prefered to have got a 2 lens bundle if possable. Upon reflection this is not really a possable option. Mainly due to not really having thought to much about the extra expence of a new memory card or even a bag to put the camera in. I was probably wrongly assuming that you'd get a camera bag in the box with the camera. But realising how important it is to keep this sort of gear looked after properly I cant take that chance seeing as it would probably be a good few months after the initial buy before I'd look at getting anything else for it. So the 2 lens option is certainly a no go as I HAVE to think about a bag and new memory card with my buy.

Then recall having read about kit lenses being fairly sub-standard on the package deals compared to the quality of whats available to buy seperatly. But also recall reading that the Sony kit lenses are seemingly of notable better quality than other makes out there.

Not experienced enough to know for sure if the kit lens quality issue is any big deal and the Sony ones are better?.

As it is now and after looking again at other brands my current choice has only changed slightly to the Sony Alpha A300. As for £390 I can get the a300, 18-70 lens, 4gb mem card, camera bag & uv filter.

The only reason I'm looking at the a300 is due to never having owned a dslr before that I'd probably get to grips with it far quicker than the a200 due to the 300 having a live view on the screen.
 
Donny909 said:
But also recall reading that the Sony kit lenses are seemingly of notable better quality than other makes out there.
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it used to be until Canon & Nikon replaced theirs & now theirs are better. So the existing Sony 18-70mm is no longer quite as good but still has a greater focal range & its being replaced by a new, better Sony 18-55mm kit lens.
Olympus have probably the best kit lenses however, I don't think that I would want to make a system purchase based purely on the kit lens.
You really should go to a shop & try handling the different bodies.
 
My 2p for what it's worth........

I rate Sony very highly. I've found the A200 to be a cracking DSLR and I doubt I'll be upgrading any time soon. I did think about buying an A700 recently because of the super low price, but at the end of the day, the A700 would have been overkill for me!

If I had £400 to spend on my first DSLR, I'd buy one of these and one of these. Which is exactly what I have done!!:D

The 55-200mm Tamron is a great lens for the money. I sold mine a while back and almost immediately regretted it big time so I quickly replaced it by buying another copy from Scott (heidfirst). If my maths is correct, that would leave you about £20. You could get a 4GB memory card for £10 delivered to get you going, which would leave £10 towards a bag to keep it all in, something like this would be fine to start off with.

I have noticed that there are some gaps in the line up for new Sony fit lenses, but I genuinely think the Sony brand will get bigger and better over the next 2/3 years and that those gaps will quickly fill up! And don't forget the huge range of Minolta AF fit lenses that will fit the Alpha range of cameras. There are some very high quality second hand bargains to be had!!
 
I started with Pentax, moved to Olympus, flirted with Canon, jumped with both feet into the Nikon camp, for 2p I swap back to Canon. Have my photos got any better, NO. if you like a body, look what lenses you can afford to suit what your going to do both new and second hand if you like what you see you have found your tool. then go use it.
 
Thanks for all the advice upto now guys it has helped quite a lot (even the more detailed posts lol).

What is clear that for the best part everyone is fairly defensive of the brand they have bought into. Not a bad thing of cause it just means each can say whats good about there brand that another does not have as good with etc.

To be honest I'm still favouring a Sony A200 or A300 at the moment and hope to go to town (Liverpool) and have a look at some either later today or tomorrow. My main issue for the make is price over anything else and as I'd like to get some bits with it. And I'm dedicated (gf issues lol) to not going a penny over £400.

1 thing I MAY think again about (alough it's nothing more than a thought) is if for the money I'd get a better deal with used gear. My initial problem with that is that I'd not really know how to inspect the equipment or have much idea if the body or lens is defective in any way.

Jessops seems my likely target seeing as I know of no other shops in Liverpool city center.

Buy my main options apart from anything else right now is would I really need anything like a 55-200 lens from day 1. And how important a live-view feature would be?. Sure I'd have every intention of getting something like that in the near future but from day 1?.
 
Donny909 said:
Thanks for all the advice upto now guys it has helped quite a lot (even the more detailed posts lol).

What is clear that for the best part everyone is fairly defensive of the brand they have bought into. Not a bad thing of cause it just means each can say whats good about there brand that another does not have as good with etc.

To be honest I'm still favouring a Sony A200 or A300 at the moment and hope to go to town (Liverpool) and have a look at some either later today or tomorrow. My main issue for the make is price over anything else and as I'd like to get some bits with it. And I'm dedicated (gf issues lol) to not going a penny over £400.

1 thing I MAY think again about (alough it's nothing more than a thought) is if for the money I'd get a better deal with used gear. My initial problem with that is that I'd not really know how to inspect the equipment or have much idea if the body or lens is defective in any way.

Jessops seems my likely target seeing as I know of no other shops in Liverpool city center.

Buy my main options apart from anything else right now is would I really need anything like a 55-200 lens from day 1. And how important a live-view feature would be?. Sure I'd have every intention of getting something like that in the near future but from day 1?.
Click to expand...

The sony kit lens has a range of 18-70mm which is bigger than most kit lenses but still quite restricting. My 55-200mm is on my camera 90% of the time but I guess it depends what you are shooting!!

Liveview is again a personal thing. I've never once thought "I wish I had liveview" but others will say they use it almost all the time! Hard to call that one for someone else!!

Second hand can seem like a minefield. I bought my camera brand new, but the A100 I had before it I bought second hand and never had a single problem with it. Personally, if I could afford it, I'd always buy the body new. Purely for some peace of mind that it won't have been mistreated and that I'd be covered by a warrenty. But I almost always buy my lenses second hand. You could save a few quid on the 55-200mm this way, like here and maybe here. Normal 2nd hand prices for the 55-200mm Tamron are £65-£85 delivered.
 
Donny909 said:
Buy my main options apart from anything else right now is would I really need anything like a 55-200 lens from day 1.
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it really depends upon what you intend photographing.
If you mainly intend e.g. landscapes then no, if you want to do e.g. sports yes.
And how important a live-view feature would be?. Sure I'd have every intention of getting something like that in the near future but from day 1?.
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I think that you will find that most people would say that 99% of the time it's irrelevant but there may be that 1% when it helps get a picture that you otherwise might not.
Bear in mind that Sony's type of LV is very different than e.g Canon or Nikon's.
Sony use a secondary sensor in the optical viewfinder to provide a feed to the LCD - this means a smaller optical vf but it allows for the camera to use it's normal phase detect AF (without mirror flipping) so that AF in Liveview is no different/slower than using the optical viewfinder.
Canon, Nikon et al use Live View off the image sensor but they have to use contrast detect AF in that mode which is far slower.
Basically what it means is that Sony's LV is better for taking shots of moving subjects but Canon, Nikon etc. LV is better for critical manual focussing in studio type situations because you are actually seeing the picture via the image sensor.

The Sonys also have a movable screen for overhead or low shots (I don't believe that e.g. the 1000D has a movable screen).
 
Well I went for a look at them yesterday and thought sod it my best option (for me anyways) is to goto Argos and get the Sony Alpha A200 for £260 (with the 18-70mm kit lens) as thats the cheapest I could really get that model at. So thats what I did, along with an extra £15 for a memory card.

So now i've got my options open for what sort of lens I can get for it with about £125. Not bothered if used and I'm looking at a few on ebay right now. We have a cash converter & cash generator in our area so might even have a look if they have anything in there.

1 thing I did notice yeaterday was that there is not really any local camera shops around any more that sell used gear. A shame really as I recall quite a few in my youth.
 
First off, congratulations on the purchase - I hope you're happy with it, I know I am with mine.

If you're looking on ebay for lenses make sure that they're AF lenses as manual lenses don't fit (AFAIK). I've found here to be a very useful resource for lenses, it well worth a look.

Dan
 
congrats on your new camera..and welcome to the land of sony alpha :thumbs:

okay...first off,what sort of photography do you envisage doing?this will ultimately help you decide what sort of lens you may need to get ie: if you want to shoot birds and wildlife,then something like a 70-300 will be a good lens to get focal length wise,or if you shoot gigs,then a wide aperture lens like the minolta 50mm F/1.7 might be just what you'll need.

as said,minolta AF lens all fit the sony alpha range,so you may want to search e-bay for something suitable..

good luck :thumbs:
 
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