What's Next?
- Thread starter Dale.
- Start date
Plain Nev
Vincent Furnier
- Messages
- 2,777
- Name
- Neville
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I think we'll find everything bundled into one package before long. Phones and cameras will be indistinguishable. Perhaps some sort of device you wear on your head with a heads up display for calls and the internet, with the ability to capture images of whatever you are looking at.
- Messages
- 7,473
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- Yes
- Messages
- 12,119
- Edit My Images
- No
I'd like it but I think I'd prefer to have it in a Rolleiflex 2.8f - hey, if we're dreaming, let's dream big!Hopefully, Fuji will stick a MF sensor into my Yashica Mat 124G
woof woof
I like a nice Chianti
- Messages
- 43,418
- Name
- Alan
- Edit My Images
- No
So, we've come from film, then digital (particularly DSLR), now we're onto mirrorless. All due respect intended here, I know some love film, DSLR and suchlike, me included.
I can't help think, what's coming next though.
I think in the near future we'll see increasingly stacked sensors and ever more powerful processors and global shutters coming to non flagship cameras. Oh, we'll also see ever increasing prices.
Lens wise we're beginning to see more "first time ever" lenses, focal lengths we're used to but with wider apertures. I think we'll see more of this.
I can't see phone like devices replacing cameras for enthusiasts until those flat lenses we keep reading about come out. Until then I can't see tiny sensors and teeny tiny lenses matching the quality we get from what we today recognise as cameras.
- Messages
- 7,473
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I've only ever used a 124G TLR, but I think I can agree with you on this one.
- Messages
- 7,473
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- Yes
On a serious note - I was actually serious about the digital MF in the TLR thing.... but - I don't think there's anything more advance that I (personally) need or want. If anything, my desires would be gear that is smaller/lighter but without any loss in IQ or performance etc I know a lot of smaller/lighter lenses rely quite a bit on 'corrections' etc
I run an A7Riii (2017?) - and A7 backup - with some great primes (mainly) and it really does serve me needs well. I have X100f for street & super lightweight & film gear for when I want to enjoy that. I therefore don't really keep up with the latest & greatest so I think this will be more a reading thread for me
I run an A7Riii (2017?) - and A7 backup - with some great primes (mainly) and it really does serve me needs well. I have X100f for street & super lightweight & film gear for when I want to enjoy that. I therefore don't really keep up with the latest & greatest so I think this will be more a reading thread for me
- Messages
- 177
- Name
- Caroline
- Edit My Images
- No
Just a flight of fancy but, in the distant future...
lensless cameras?
Imagine a sensor of such pixel density (or some other technology) in a small area that can take in detail, at great speed of, say, a landscape. The sensor records the whole scene in exquisite detail and the only limit is how wide it is initially set up for. If you want to zoom in, you just do so; in and in and in, with more detail becoming visible as you do so, fractal-like. There will always be a limit but I would think that limit would be price, not capability. Imagine, if you will, the equivalent of a 6-10,000mm lens, all in a box the size of an MFT camera. You might think that the tiniest camera shake would render massive zooms-in as impossible, but imagine also that same sensor having exponential speed—at ISO 20,000,000 or more—'shutter' speeds (not that there would be a shutter, more just 'on' and 'off') would cancel out even the most Parkinson's-ridden photographer. Of course, this is an imaginary ideal but perhaps something of this sort of thing might happen to a lesser degree.
lensless cameras?
Imagine a sensor of such pixel density (or some other technology) in a small area that can take in detail, at great speed of, say, a landscape. The sensor records the whole scene in exquisite detail and the only limit is how wide it is initially set up for. If you want to zoom in, you just do so; in and in and in, with more detail becoming visible as you do so, fractal-like. There will always be a limit but I would think that limit would be price, not capability. Imagine, if you will, the equivalent of a 6-10,000mm lens, all in a box the size of an MFT camera. You might think that the tiniest camera shake would render massive zooms-in as impossible, but imagine also that same sensor having exponential speed—at ISO 20,000,000 or more—'shutter' speeds (not that there would be a shutter, more just 'on' and 'off') would cancel out even the most Parkinson's-ridden photographer. Of course, this is an imaginary ideal but perhaps something of this sort of thing might happen to a lesser degree.
woof woof
I like a nice Chianti
- Messages
- 43,418
- Name
- Alan
- Edit My Images
- No
My dream has always been to get back to the bulk and weight of the film cameras I had. This is probably impossible as those film cameras were basically an empty plastic box but cutting down on the bulk and weight would be nice. I recently bought a Sony A7cII expecting it to be smaller than a SLR type design and it is a bit but it's significantly chunkier than my Panasonic GX80 which is a similar vf in the corner design.
With current lens tech Sony seem able to shave some ounces off here and there and software corrections will help to reduce the bulk and weight but I suppose there are limits if you want to keep the image quality up. I'd be willing to let the IQ drop a bit. I suppose another way to keep the bulk down is to reduce the aperture, for eg the Sony mini G range of f2.5/f2.8 lenses but people do like their big honking f1.2's. Flat lenses will be a real game changer on day
With current lens tech Sony seem able to shave some ounces off here and there and software corrections will help to reduce the bulk and weight but I suppose there are limits if you want to keep the image quality up. I'd be willing to let the IQ drop a bit. I suppose another way to keep the bulk down is to reduce the aperture, for eg the Sony mini G range of f2.5/f2.8 lenses but people do like their big honking f1.2's. Flat lenses will be a real game changer on day
Last edited:
Global shutter won't come because of photography- it probably will come because of video.
Individual pixel iso control so you get 10 useful bits of data, no matter what light level the pixel sees, leading to increased dynamic range.
Logarhtymic style data recording. 10 bits of data plus 4 bits of binary multiplication gives you a dynamic range of 10+16=26 stops for the same file size as a current 14 stop picture.
Something beyond CMOS. In terms of ISO performance, CMOS has gone as far as it can go without a new innovation. All the cameras with the same sensor size give about the same performance.
In camera AI beauty filters (ha ha ha). On the consumer end, the ability to make fake pictures would sell loads of cameras. As would the ability to make pictures look like the output of an iPhone. Just need to be able to load them up to a phone instantly. They could sell it to photographers as built in retouching/boke effects/advanced processing options.
Better filter control on black and white pictures. Why can't I get total control of red, blue and green filter levels instead of just a simple red, orange, yellow or green filter. Let me control all 3 colours in stops (eg red no change, green -2 stops, blue -8 stops)
Colour matching built in fill flash. The pre-flash you get on automatic flash would let the camera compare the colours before and during the flash. The camera changes the colour of the final flash using extra blue and red LEDs to match ambient light.
Individual pixel iso control so you get 10 useful bits of data, no matter what light level the pixel sees, leading to increased dynamic range.
Logarhtymic style data recording. 10 bits of data plus 4 bits of binary multiplication gives you a dynamic range of 10+16=26 stops for the same file size as a current 14 stop picture.
Something beyond CMOS. In terms of ISO performance, CMOS has gone as far as it can go without a new innovation. All the cameras with the same sensor size give about the same performance.
In camera AI beauty filters (ha ha ha). On the consumer end, the ability to make fake pictures would sell loads of cameras. As would the ability to make pictures look like the output of an iPhone. Just need to be able to load them up to a phone instantly. They could sell it to photographers as built in retouching/boke effects/advanced processing options.
Better filter control on black and white pictures. Why can't I get total control of red, blue and green filter levels instead of just a simple red, orange, yellow or green filter. Let me control all 3 colours in stops (eg red no change, green -2 stops, blue -8 stops)
Colour matching built in fill flash. The pre-flash you get on automatic flash would let the camera compare the colours before and during the flash. The camera changes the colour of the final flash using extra blue and red LEDs to match ambient light.
- Messages
- 26,336
- Name
- Phil
- Edit My Images
- No
There are many photographers using flash outdoors who were clamouring for global shutters well before DSLR’s got video. We’re the same guys who bought med format film cameras purely for the higher flash sync speeds.
I appreciate we’re outnumbered by video shooters now, but that doesn’t mean the camera mfrs don’t know about our issue.
- Messages
- 26,336
- Name
- Phil
- Edit My Images
- No
Why would anyone buy this when they already have a phone that does it well enough? I think improvements in cameras will be things that photographers want, camera mfrs have already lost the snapshot market to phones and it’s not coming back.
But maybe I’m not the one to know. Cos I don’t know why anyone would use those filters, or apply massive fake eyelashes or have inflated trout lips. But here we are.
- Messages
- 12,119
- Edit My Images
- No
Just a thought: one thing that may dramatically alter the camera market is industrial 3D printing.
I don't pretend to be an expert but this seems to be growing and evolving at high speed. It may bring the cost of entry for smaller businesses to the point where they can buy in the optics and the electronics and concentrate on the overall design, while keeping the unit cost within what the market might bear.
Even lenses are now being printed, albeit requiring post processing to get the desired results.
I don't pretend to be an expert but this seems to be growing and evolving at high speed. It may bring the cost of entry for smaller businesses to the point where they can buy in the optics and the electronics and concentrate on the overall design, while keeping the unit cost within what the market might bear.
Even lenses are now being printed, albeit requiring post processing to get the desired results.
- Messages
- 1,906
- Name
- Nick (yes there is more than one of us)
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Where next?
Realistically other than fast processing or fast FPS, I mean 120 fps? why not 160 fps
there is nowhere else for cameras to go. Of course there is still people who seem to want to use 12billion ISO and get a poster size print with no noise, but we're into dream land again.
The Mirrorless camera is just an evolution of what is basically the same thing created more than 100 years ago, a light tight box, with away to capture an image, a shutter and a glass tube with a hole in it to focus the light, it's only the technology inside said box that has changed. Nothing has really changed in the last 10 years or so if you look critically at the design and what the cameras can do, they have only evolved.
It is more the editing software that will now change, with the even more use of AI and of course the questionable pricing via the subscription route, but that is a whole other discussion.
However the Yashica 124 with a 6x6 sensor? Take my money
Realistically other than fast processing or fast FPS, I mean 120 fps? why not 160 fps
there is nowhere else for cameras to go. Of course there is still people who seem to want to use 12billion ISO and get a poster size print with no noise, but we're into dream land again.The Mirrorless camera is just an evolution of what is basically the same thing created more than 100 years ago, a light tight box, with away to capture an image, a shutter and a glass tube with a hole in it to focus the light, it's only the technology inside said box that has changed. Nothing has really changed in the last 10 years or so if you look critically at the design and what the cameras can do, they have only evolved.
It is more the editing software that will now change, with the even more use of AI and of course the questionable pricing via the subscription route, but that is a whole other discussion.
However the Yashica 124 with a 6x6 sensor? Take my money
I just don't think there is demand for most stills users. The Sony global shutter camera hasn't set the World alight and Nikon dropped it's 1/500s synch cameras that could do global shutter ~20 years ago.
- Messages
- 26,336
- Name
- Phil
- Edit My Images
- No
No one was calling the Nikon cameras global shutters 20 yrs ago, because technically they weren’t.
There’s a massive difference between a 1/500 sync speed and a 1/4000 or higher.
I get that you don’t understand the use for low powered high speed sync, but there are plenty of us that do.
Every single buyer of a Godox or Profoto 600 Ws flash (I appreciate not millions) could save their money and a fair amount of hassle by having a camera with a global shutter.
Plain Nev
Vincent Furnier
- Messages
- 2,777
- Name
- Neville
- Edit My Images
- Yes
D40 f/16 ISO 200 aperture priority doing about 1/200s. No flash.
D40 f/16 1/500s ISO 200 manual priority. Canon Compatible Flash on manual at 1/8.
D40 f/16 1/4000s ISO 200 manual priority. Canon Compatible Flash on manual at 1/8. Maybe losing some off the flash due to high shutter speed.
D40 f/16 1/500s ISO 200 manual priority. Canon Compatible Flash on manual at 1/8.
D40 f/16 1/4000s ISO 200 manual priority. Canon Compatible Flash on manual at 1/8. Maybe losing some off the flash due to high shutter speed.
- Messages
- 334
- Name
- Richard Toulson
- Edit My Images
- No
I'd like to see lenses with more built-in features. Such as ND filters, polariser and even a TC. Maybe these should be moved into the body?
- Messages
- 751
- Name
- Philip
- Edit My Images
- No
An AI camera that's fitted with drone capabilities.
You tell it what kind of image you want and off it go's looking for one. It then lands on a hillside and waits for the sun to set. Once it's found the ideal setting, and the best position, it takes the image.
It then flies back to you and you process it with Photoshop (AI mode). Your AI capable printer prints it off at the best settings and at the same time contacts the Tate Gallery to tell it another masterpiece is on it's way.
You bask in the glory
You tell it what kind of image you want and off it go's looking for one. It then lands on a hillside and waits for the sun to set. Once it's found the ideal setting, and the best position, it takes the image.
It then flies back to you and you process it with Photoshop (AI mode). Your AI capable printer prints it off at the best settings and at the same time contacts the Tate Gallery to tell it another masterpiece is on it's way.
You bask in the glory
OP
Dale.
Bo Derek
- Messages
- 13,855
- Name
- Dale.
- Edit My Images
- Yes
An AI camera that's fitted with drone capabilities.
You tell it what kind of image you want and off it go's looking for one. It then lands on a hillside and waits for the sun to set. Once it's found the ideal setting, and the best position, it takes the image.
It then flies back to you and you process it with Photoshop (AI mode). Your AI capable printer prints it off at the best settings and at the same time contacts the Tate Gallery to tell it another masterpiece is on it's way.
You bask in the glory
I know I found that amusing but scarily, it might not be that far from the truth, if not already, then maybe not too much longer.
I posted this on April 1st a couple of years back:An AI camera that's fitted with drone capabilities.
You tell it what kind of image you want and off it go's looking for one. It then lands on a hillside and waits for the sun to set. Once it's found the ideal setting, and the best position, it takes the image.
It then flies back to you and you process it with Photoshop (AI mode). Your AI capable printer prints it off at the best settings and at the same time contacts the Tate Gallery to tell it another masterpiece is on it's way.
You bask in the glory
Sony today launched a great service for aspiring photographers that is guaranteed to help them take better pictures. All you have to do is sign up to their Photo-Assist app and link your Sony camera to your phone.
By combining the image on your camera, a vast library of online photographs and your geolocation data; your camera will be able to tell you were to move to get the best image and will even set up the camera for you. The new technology uses advanced machine learning to compare what your camera sees to all the available online photographs and works out how your pictures could be made better to get more "likes". It uses landmark information, skylines, geographical information and weather forecasts to suggest how you should relocate to improve the photograph. The system compares the image on your camera sensor to the most popular and award winning images to set up the camera to take the perfect picture. It even has options to replicate the photo style of award winning photographers or classic cameras/lenses.
It doesn't matter what you are photographing: landscapes, portraits, vehicles, weddings or even insects, Photo-Assist will take the hard work out of photography and make all your pictures as good as Sony ones. The pictures are automatically shared through your phone to whatever app you chose, so your friends can get instant access to your photography skills. The service will also work with all current Sony camera phones.
In the words of a Sony spokesman "All you have to do is hold up the camera in live view, move where the camera tells you to go, point it towards the direction and frame shown the screen and press the shutter button. We'll do the rest."
- Messages
- 11,181
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- Yes
So, we've come from film, then digital (particularly DSLR), now we're onto mirrorless. All due respect intended here
I can't help think, what's coming next though.
I suspect creative and gimmicky type stuff will remain in the domain of phone cameras, such as Pixel's Add Me feature, AI zoom enhance etc and dedicated cameras will focus on on improving the actual tech, but keeping with the traditional methods of photography. At least that is how I would like it to go.
- Messages
- 7,553
- Name
- Tommy
- Edit My Images
- No
So, we've come from film, then digital (particularly DSLR), now we're onto mirrorless. All due respect intended here
I can't help think, what's coming next though.
Whats coming next is already here and has been for sometime.
Cameras on mobiles will longterm replace any other camera for all but the hold outs over the next 10-15 years.
Global shutter also allows the removal of the mechanical shutter - once Global Shutter technology becomes cheaper, that leads to a cost saving (just like the switch to mirrorless), doing away with the complex and fragile shutter assembly, making assembly cheaper and easier.
We get the high end FPS and sync speeds, but for the manufacturers that's almost a by product.
- Messages
- 10,894
- Name
- wayne clarke
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I think the next big step will be low light ability. Theres colour night vision out now. Take that to the next level in a high end mirrorless and your getting close to not needing flash or extra lighting. Maybe better high iso, it's come a long way already, but imaging 10 times better?.
- Messages
- 11,181
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I remember mentioning Black Silicon on here a while ago. I'm not sure how much it has developed, but when I first heard about it there was reports that it would be a game changer with low-light.
EDIT: 15 years ago! haha Crickey....
- Messages
- 112
- Name
- Paul
- Edit My Images
- Yes
An AI camera that's fitted with drone capabilities.
You tell it what kind of image you want and off it go's looking for one. It then lands on a hillside and waits for the sun to set. Once it's found the ideal setting, and the best position, it takes the image.
It then flies back to you and you process it with Photoshop (AI mode). Your AI capable printer prints it off at the best settings and at the same time contacts the Tate Gallery to tell it another masterpiece is on it's way.
You bask in the glory
Putin would buy them all!