When is a zine not a zine?
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What's the purpose? If it's for you, it's fine. If you're intending others to look at it, I'd say that was more a book as I'm assuming 1 photo per page. 84 photos is a lot to absorb and would presumably take quite a while to go through in any degree of depth.
A "zine" to me is more a "here is my thing, and you'll get it pretty quickly" - much like it was with the music/punk zines that went around school when I was a kid. As well as being smaller and shorter, a zine, to me, is about punchy information delivered concisely.
Just my opinion though!
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That's pretty much my take on it too.
Price / cost and materials are also important. Zines imo are accessible and democratic, if you A5 booklet could be sold for less than a tenner, then it's a zine in my view. If your choice of presentation means that you couldn't afford to hand them out for free (to get your work out there) or you have to sell them at £20 a pop then it's not a zine.
I've been having some fun over the last week making some sh*t lo fi handmade zines
I've been having some fun over the last week making some sh*t lo fi handmade zines
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Price / cost and materials are also important. Zines imo are accessible and democratic, if you A5 booklet could be sold for less than a tenner, then it's a zine in my view. If your choice of presentation means that you couldn't afford to hand them out for free (to get your work out there) or you have to sell them at £20 a pop then it's not a zine.
I've been having some fun over the last week making some sh*t lo fi handmade zines
I think that is a point that is missed.
Judgement should be more on quality of information than finish.
They are more "genuine" when personally hand made.
The origins of form and purpose seem to have got lost, it seems to be more now a case of "look what a nice looking book I can make"
For me, it would be an interesting project if they had to be produced at home
Having a photo project printed on photo quality paper and bound is a book, not a zine
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Additional thoughts.
In the day of fanzines they were photocopied. So anything of a higher reproduction standard than that wouldn't count. Likewise if it has a card cover. But that's getting picky like those silly definitions of what is 'real' street photography.
Then again print on demand is the 21st century version of photocopying. If it had been available in the 1970s I doubt it would have been shunned. Even desktop scanning and printing is better quality than photocopying.
I'm old enough to have started my self-publishing days to have done so when it was literally scissor and glue cut and paste. I can assure you had the technology everyone has access to today been available I'd have used it. Moving from a typewriter to a word processor was a huge leap in production values!. I wonder if the punk DIY ethic is now to be found on Youtube with the people using their phones to make content rather than in print media?
My personal definition of a zine would probably be small page count, stapled (saddle stitched), not intended to make a profit or necessarily break even. There might even have to be an element of self-expression and graphic design required rather than a simple album of pictures.
My sheep book has to wash its face as far as I'm concerned, and if it can raise a few bob extra even better. The zines I've made I'm happy to give away. I guess that means profit making is the dividing point!
In the day of fanzines they were photocopied. So anything of a higher reproduction standard than that wouldn't count. Likewise if it has a card cover. But that's getting picky like those silly definitions of what is 'real' street photography.
Then again print on demand is the 21st century version of photocopying. If it had been available in the 1970s I doubt it would have been shunned. Even desktop scanning and printing is better quality than photocopying.
I'm old enough to have started my self-publishing days to have done so when it was literally scissor and glue cut and paste. I can assure you had the technology everyone has access to today been available I'd have used it. Moving from a typewriter to a word processor was a huge leap in production values!. I wonder if the punk DIY ethic is now to be found on Youtube with the people using their phones to make content rather than in print media?
My personal definition of a zine would probably be small page count, stapled (saddle stitched), not intended to make a profit or necessarily break even. There might even have to be an element of self-expression and graphic design required rather than a simple album of pictures.
My sheep book has to wash its face as far as I'm concerned, and if it can raise a few bob extra even better. The zines I've made I'm happy to give away. I guess that means profit making is the dividing point!
lindsay
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I do agree with Ed. Back in the early 90's I produced a newsletter for an aviation museum friends group and it was all done with very basic word processing and formatting to print on a dot matrix printer, stapled and posted. Earlier than that, I also did a similar thing with a typewriter, scissors and glue to produce a master that was then photocopied. Now, I'm editing a ham radio monthly journal that I collate in Word, then move to Adobe Acrobat Pro to format, then output to pdf for upload to Mixam for a nice A5 booklet-format 48 page magazine. Worlds different and a step change at each point. Production values definitely more of an issue nowadays.
But for a photographic zine, I think the author is also incorporating something of themselves in the product, so the more slick it looks, the less personal it feels?
But for a photographic zine, I think the author is also incorporating something of themselves in the product, so the more slick it looks, the less personal it feels?
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Additional thoughts.
In the day of fanzines they were photocopied. So anything of a higher reproduction standard than that wouldn't count. Likewise if it has a card cover. But that's getting picky like those silly definitions of what is 'real' street photography.
Then again print on demand is the 21st century version of photocopying. If it had been available in the 1970s I doubt it would have been shunned. Even desktop scanning and printing is better quality than photocopying.
I'm old enough to have started my self-publishing days to have done so when it was literally scissor and glue cut and paste. I can assure you had the technology everyone has access to today been available I'd have used it. Moving from a typewriter to a word processor was a huge leap in production values!. I wonder if the punk DIY ethic is now to be found on Youtube with the people using their phones to make content rather than in print media?
My personal definition of a zine would probably be small page count, stapled (saddle stitched), not intended to make a profit or necessarily break even. There might even have to be an element of self-expression and graphic design required rather than a simple album of pictures.
My sheep book has to wash its face as far as I'm concerned, and if it can raise a few bob extra even better. The zines I've made I'm happy to give away. I guess that means profit making is the dividing point!
I don't know where you would draw the line between scanning and printing and photocopying, unless you are comparing only the photocopying of the 70s.
Most "zines" of that time would have been on a stencil or Risograph/Roneo duplicator.
Print on demand was available from the late 80s to early 90s, but it was so expensive it was mainly used for short run colour work, where the expense of plate-making make ready and setup made offset very expensive on short 4 colour runs.
There are alternatives to saddle stitching that can be used at home, or long arm staplers are not hard to come by.
"
Agreed.
Yes, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 or 32 pages max, including the front and back covers, and I would not see an album of pictures as a zine, it is simply a photo album.
32 pages is approaching a booklet, and 8 a pamphlet
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My first zine was a collaborative effort with the other members of the band (I was 16) and is a hilariously low tech effort with bits of paper stuck on it, typewriting accidents, handwritten inserted comments/addendums, stencils (remember those!?!) and glue that went in places it shouldn't, making a mess. It's also very much "of it's time", the time being 1985. I agree - if the technology had been there (and affordable to teenage kids with a paper round) we'd have used it too!
We only had one copy (which I've held over the years), and couldn't afford to photocopy it, but last year I scanned them all in and made a Blurb "magazine" with it. I hunted out the other band members and sent them all a copy, so now there's 4 in circulation. It's still my favourite zine ever, but I'm still too embarrassed to show my wife
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Banda Machine (Spirit Duplicator) !!!!
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Home recording has come on a little since the days of a stereo cassette recorder - even with our secondhand shop four channel mixer !My first zine was a collaborative effort with the other members of the band (I was 16) and is a hilariously low tech effort with bits of paper stuck on it, typewriting accidents, handwritten inserted comments/addendums, stencils (remember those!?!) and glue that went in places it shouldn't, making a mess. It's also very much "of it's time", the time being 1985. I agree - if the technology had been there (and affordable to teenage kids with a paper round) we'd have used it too!
We only had one copy (which I've held over the years), and couldn't afford to photocopy it, but last year I scanned them all in and made a Blurb "magazine" with it. I hunted out the other band members and sent them all a copy, so now there's 4 in circulation. It's still my favourite zine ever, but I'm still too embarrassed to show my wife
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I had a friend who produce a fanzine for a while in the late 70s and early 80s, but if you didn't have a very specific interest it was garbage. For me, the cut'n'glue then photocopy thing was OK 30 years ago, but any charm that had wore off a long time in the past. This conversation is making me rethink whether I want to be part of the zine swap after all.
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I think it's a bit like some people using 35mm film these days. For them it's as much about the process and the tools as the end result. Maybe more so in some cases. For others the easiest way to get their intended result is the one to use.
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To me, it's more like using Polaroids. They always looked like crap and will always look like crap, but at one time we didn't know any better.
I'm not attacking anyone's work, but the 'charm' is lost on me.
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Ed Thompson has recently started a YouTube Channel - it's more interesting than most photography channels imo so definitely give him a watch and a subscribe. There's one 1hr30m episode of him drinking beer with a friend and flicking through creative camera magazine!
Anyway, back to topic.. he's made a series of videos on Zines
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVJaVLyquiw&ab_channel=PicturesOnMyMind
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq0yqdJK_H8&t=323s&ab_channel=PicturesOnMyMind
And: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqMb4nagn_1s9ckCRcfznelsKHKxqjDu_
Anyway, back to topic.. he's made a series of videos on Zines
And: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqMb4nagn_1s9ckCRcfznelsKHKxqjDu_
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I liked some of those I watched but the beer influenced one put me right off. Not so much the banter but his dismissal of some of the work. It is of its time. He's teamed up with Alex Kilbee a time or two since and it's starting to get a bit too incestuous Youtuber for me.
Merry Christmas!
I've posted this elsewhere on TP but some relevance to the way this thread is going.
What are Café Royal Books?
For this Sofa Session Martin Parr is joined by Craig Atkinson of Café Royal Books for a conversation around photography, zines, independent publishing and th...
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Interesting discussion, I have been aware since zineswap #1 that my zines are not true to the original definition of the term, being more like short photobooks, indeed I did mention in the last swap that "I'd done it again" and wanted next time to produce a more fluid, less structured document.
However, after further consideration, I believe my work tends not to lend itself to that approach as it's normally a more structured set of images (consequence of 40 years as an engineer) and having a non-structured layout negatively impacts on the final product.
I do not however believe that this disqualifies the use of the term "zine". Definitions evolve, they have to otherwise a zine would still be cut and paste and photocopied. Frankly though, it's just a name and has no bearing of my enjoyment of any of the "booklets" I have received through the swaps to date. Quite the contrary in fact, had they all followed the same approach to layout, that would have detracted from the whole.
Just to contradict myself, one of my options for the current round is a more organic theme which may well lend itself to a randomised layout (for want of a better term), If it does develop into the final product I'll just have to see how it pans out
However, after further consideration, I believe my work tends not to lend itself to that approach as it's normally a more structured set of images (consequence of 40 years as an engineer) and having a non-structured layout negatively impacts on the final product.
I do not however believe that this disqualifies the use of the term "zine". Definitions evolve, they have to otherwise a zine would still be cut and paste and photocopied. Frankly though, it's just a name and has no bearing of my enjoyment of any of the "booklets" I have received through the swaps to date. Quite the contrary in fact, had they all followed the same approach to layout, that would have detracted from the whole.
Just to contradict myself, one of my options for the current round is a more organic theme which may well lend itself to a randomised layout (for want of a better term), If it does develop into the final product I'll just have to see how it pans out
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This is what makes @Harlequin565 's zines stand out (and the last one really held attention, and was worthy of several visits)- I'm in your camp being an engineer and therefore seem to end up with a more structured approach. The hidden artist is well and truly supressed!!!!
I do make an effort to expand my photography style, but I keep returning to type. Maybe 2024 will be the year that I get out of the box!
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I’ve not done a zine swap on here for a while, but I enjoyed the diversity of the zines that everyone produced. A by diversity, I mean not only in the subject matter, but in the actual artefact itself - some were home made, some were professionally printed, and all in different sizes and shapes.
I did think about doing a real lo-fi laser printed one that I could print at home and hand staple, but I’ve been too busy this year to even do something as unsophisticated as that!
I did think about doing a real lo-fi laser printed one that I could print at home and hand staple, but I’ve been too busy this year to even do something as unsophisticated as that!
A recent blog post I found on this subject https://unitednationsofphotography.com/2024/01/07/its-not-a-zine-its-a-book/
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I think that's pretty much on the money. The meaning has changed. Certainly in the photo world
I'd also add that a zine is aimed at that world, the same thing aimed at the general public (e.g. a bunch of sheep breeders
) is a book because the general public isn't au fait with the term 'zine'.
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