Where to start with professianl equipment?

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Rob.Marsh said:
Poor chap was judged by his camera before he even got a chance.
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I thought it was more judging by virtue of someone saying/implying...

I've no idea of anything but if you tell me what camera to buy I'll be a Pro next week

And that, no matter how kind & helpful you wish to be, is just so ridiculous it's hard to see any answer as being appropriate

DD
 
AliB said:
Excuse me but I think you will find that a number of us offered some decent advice and didn't take the mick.

I'll have that apology now if you don't mind.
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:plusone: Same here; my first post was most definitely intended to provide a bit of constructive advice outlining the matters at stake if the OP really wants to make money out of his hobby. As for my second post, some example pics would genuinely be interesting to see; who knows? He may have an eye for his subject matter that puts the rest of us to shame. You don't need a fancy camera to communicate that.

Anyway, as DiddyDave has said, I think the OP has swanned off by now. meaning this thread has been reduced to one bunch of members getting on their high horses and berating another bunch of members; it's making me chuckle, actually :lol::lol::lol:
 
My post wasn't aimed at all posters in this thread, but all the popcorn icons couple with a number of comments, to me, seemed far from welcoming and helpful.

Ali, your post was indeed helpful to the OP.

But..

But if he buys really high end pro equipment like a Canon 30D :lol: :lol: :lol: then surely he'll be able to take professional photos within minutes of taking the camera out of the box. I'm assuming he'll read the manual, what else does he need? :thinking:
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Buy a decent 110 polaroid
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gwc anyone :D
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My first comment may have been a little strong, but increasingly there seems to be less and less tolerance for people looking to go pro. Ok so the OP didn't explain himself all that clearly, nor his experience but quite a few judgements were made too.

Sorry if I offended people, perhaps this guy may deserve an apology to.....
 
Rob.Marsh said:
Sorry if I offended people, perhaps this guy may deserve an apology to.....
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I'm not offened by the fact that you quoted me as one of the people that may owe the OP an apology but I won't be making one. Whether this guy is English, Italian or from the moon he should have more sense than to think owning a point and shoot for 5 years is a good basis for turning professional. I have one them little gadgets for checking electrical current but I'm no electrician.

I agree that we've taken the mickey out of this guy and we've probably put him off coming back on to the forum but I think that just proves the fact that he didn't know enough about photography to be able to have a decent debate about the steps you need to take to turn professional.

I am all for newer photographers having ambitions to become professional, I bet it's what a lot of TP members would like to be doing for a living but everyone needs to be sensible about it. I am all for newbie photographers coming on here and asking the most basic questions and expecting sensible helpful answers. The key is to be realistic about where your photography is at. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you come on here and say "I know nothing about photography but I want to be a professional"?
 
Poor way to treat a guy looking for advice, expected less snobbery from this place. :thumbsdown:

Seems you only have to mention 'professional' before the 'he's taking OUR JOBS!' mentality to rise to the fore.
 
Rob.Marsh said:
My first comment may have been a little strong, but increasingly there seems to be less and less tolerance for people looking to go pro. Ok so the OP didn't explain himself all that clearly, nor his experience but quite a few judgements were made too.
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I can understand why sometimes, but this comment pretty much sums up why I often hesitate to even mention my future intentions. Although some don't always understand the implications, the many hours of work involved, the responsibilies, the cost etc etc, I don't think it's helpful to anyone, some of the comments (not just on this forum) that get posted whenever someone mentions the "pro" word or worse the "W" word. I realise that patience maybe getting a little thin but you've got to realise, even the really daft questions are posted by people who just don't know any better, and this isnt a crime. Tell them the truth but please don't ridicule them. Everyone has to start somewhere, and when you have a passing interest in photography, your 9-5 low paid job gets you down, you have bills etc etc, you've maybe seen how much your sisters wedding photographer cost, the idea of setting up can be really attractive. Alright, when reality dawns the glamour fades a bit but some of these people could just have what it takes (I hope I will one day). Nowadays there seems to be this idea that too many people are in the industry, and competition is hard, that may be true but I don't think its a valid defence, this attitude seems to have been around forever (my dad says he encountered the same thing in the fifties :shrug:)

If I upset anyone with this reply I apologise, it's just a frustration I have finally decided to air.
 
Oh please! Not a reply to Ste! :)

Do at least try to see past what is at best a cliche.

Did I put him off at all, no I offered him some perspective from someone already someway down that path.

To reply to Ste.

Yes you may see how much your sisters wedding photography cost but if you figure that my kit cost £10K and my annual overheads are £5K and the wedding album COSTS me £400 then perhaps you can start to understand the costs involved before I even turn up.
 
-Rob- said:
I'm not offened by the fact that you quoted me as one of the people that may owe the OP an apology but I won't be making one. Whether this guy is English, Italian or from the moon he should have more sense than to think owning a point and shoot for 5 years is a good basis for turning professional. I have one them little gadgets for checking electrical current but I'm no electrician.

I agree that we've taken the mickey out of this guy and we've probably put him off coming back on to the forum but I think that just proves the fact that he didn't know enough about photography to be able to have a decent debate about the steps you need to take to turn professional.

I am all for newer photographers having ambitions to become professional, I bet it's what a lot of TP members would like to be doing for a living but everyone needs to be sensible about it. I am all for newbie photographers coming on here and asking the most basic questions and expecting sensible helpful answers. The key is to be realistic about where your photography is at. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you come on here and say "I know nothing about photography but I want to be a professional"?
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An electrician takes years to train, you could set up a business as a pro photographer tomorrow given it takes zero qualifications to do.
 
I didn't want you to think that was aimed at you but you posted before my reply to the previous post landed :)
 
Ali,

I have always found your posts (across TP in general) very informative and useful, and I tought the same in this thread. :)

My point to others was that there are ways of telling showing people that perhaps there is more to it than getting a new camera and taking the mickey isn't it.

I didn't mean for a flame war, I'm sorry I brought it up. I shan't say any more on the matter. Equally I'm sorry if people were upset by my observations.

Rob - out!
 
Laudrup said:
An electrician takes years to train, you could set up a business as a pro photographer tomorrow given it takes zero qualifications to do.
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I could become an electrician* tomorrow if I wanted to. I'd only need the years of training to become a competant one. It's the same with photography.


* or a mechanic, teacher, police man, fireman, insurance assessor etc etc etc.
 
Laudrup said:
An electrician takes years to train, you could set up a business as a pro photographer tomorrow given it takes zero qualifications to do.
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You obviously havent watched Rogue Traders then have you because there are thousands of Electricians/Plumbers/Heating Engineers trading out there without a single days training, you can set yourself up in any business you like without any training not just photography.
 
Rob.Marsh said:
Ali,

I didn't mean for a flame war, I'm sorry I brought it up. I shan't say any more on the matter. Equally I'm sorry if people were upset by my observations.

Rob - out!
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No worries Rob, I'm fine with a discussion which is what you have tried to do, my comments are aimed at those one liners along the lines of "You pros are all threatened" If anyone thinks a decent pro is threatened by someone with a compact then do please wake up before posting. Most pros are actually very acommodating and I regularly meet up with others working in the same field as me. We share ideas, we share kit, we share training resources and it's in that environment a new pro would find themselves.

So please stop with the "You pros are all threatened" as an excuse for not putting your brain into gear.
 
-Rob- said:
I could become an electrician* tomorrow if I wanted to. I'd only need the years of training to become a competant one. It's the same with photography.


* or a mechanic, teacher, police man, fireman, insurance assessor etc etc etc.
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Becoming a 'pro' photographer only means you earn a living from it, not that your photos become any better than an amateur doing the rounds. You could buy a 1DS Mk III and an 85mm f/1.2 and start charging tomorrow.

You couldn't as an electrcian.
 
Gary Coyle said:
You obviously havent watched Rogue Traders then have you because there are thousands of Electricians/Plumbers/Heating Engineers trading out there without a single days training, you can set yourself up in any business you like without any training not just photography.
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Yeah probably why they are on a show called 'Rogue Trading' and working illegally then :bonk:
 
Oh I do understand the costs AliB - my point is that these posters have no idea at first. When you have the first idea about turning your hobby into a paying job, it doesn't dawn on you all the implications, so you join a forum and innocently post a question and get jumped on from high by twenty seasoned pro's telling you you're an idiot. It's not helpful. It's got so bad I daren't ask anything remotely connected, worse there must be hundreds of potentially good future pro's out there who have given up on the idea or worse still said to themselves "sod them" and jumped in head first with no real idea. They then ruin someones wedding memories by screwing up or they make financial commitments and end up getting into serious trouble. I don't know, maybe I am simplifying the issue too much, if I ever make it I just hope I don't become one of the ones I'm talking about. I just think it doesn't hurt to try to help people realise what they're asking. Most will then let the idea pass but some of us will take good advice to heart and still make a go of it.
 
Ste Manns said:
It's got so bad I daren't ask anything remotely connected, worse there must be hundreds of potentially good future pro's out there who have given up on the idea or worse still said to themselves "sod them" and jumped in head first with no real idea.
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Approaching it sensibly and with as much knowledge as you can is exactly what I've tried to do.

And you can ask me anything anytime, if I can help I will.

I think if you phrase questions well you can still get a decent reply and you can always just ignore any idiotic posts.:thumbs:
 
AliB said:
So please stop with the "You pros are all threatened" as an excuse for not putting your brain into gear.
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I was threatened only this morning :(

But I stood up for myself, puffed out my chest and said NO - make your own toast!!!

And it still felt good as I applied the jam too :D

Seriously though, no-one feels threatened by a newbie wanting to become a Pro, and we're all aware many hobbiests would love to be paid for pressing the shutter button, what is frustrating is how often people think it's easy to go 'Pro' - and by that I mean self-employed in any workspace

What got to me about this thread was that the OP seems to know nothing at all about the most basic aspect - a camera - yet is going Pro as soon as he gets one :cuckoo:

DD
 
60 posts and no-one has noticed that the op hasn't been back.

Just an observation.....carry on arguing amongst yourselves :naughty:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
60 posts and no-one has noticed that the op hasn't been back.

Just an observation.....carry on arguing amongst yourselves :naughty:
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:lol::lol: I myself am guilty of that :lol::lol:

What has been nice to see in this thread is that the passion for photography lives on strongly in people! :D

Group Hug and make up time?
 
Gawd...
Such a lot of emotion over a single word "Professional"
Perhaps if the OP had replaced it with "serious" this thread may have gone better.
Gotta agree that it wouldnt hurt to offer honest advice about the business the OP is looking to make a start in rather than see who can pound him a little further into the ground. (And yes,many people have given good advice.)
Sadly though-Its easy to jump on a forum and belittle the guy who "seems" to have a "dumb" idea.
Im sure a LOT of so called "Pro" togs made the same kind of start but DIDNT ask first...
Would be nice if most intarweb™ forums didnt have the usual "jump on the bandwagon and see who can make the op as uncomfortable as possible" brigade..
(Not that TP usually DOES feel that way-But let's face it...The poor guy must be wondering whose pot he's been pi**ing in...)
If i ever decide to try and make anything from photography (Which is unlikely at my level lol!),must remember NOT to ask about it first eh? :)

(Like others-If i offend anyone...I apologise...Not my intention!)
Peace and Merry Christmas to you all.... Including the OP :P
 
Mischief said:
Im sure a LOT of so called "Pro" togs made the same kind of start but DIDNT ask first...
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I'm sure a lot of actual professionals (of all occupations) jumped in at the deep end not quite sure what they were doing and managed to work it out for themselves to make a success of it.


Steve.
 
Loving the protestations of innocence.

The guy asked for camera advice, not a lecture on how to conduct his life.

You're all guilty as hell :D :lol:
 
AliB said:
Approaching it sensibly and with as much knowledge as you can is exactly what I've tried to do.

And you can ask me anything anytime, if I can help I will.

I think if you phrase questions well you can still get a decent reply and you can always just ignore any idiotic posts.:thumbs:
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Thankyou for the offer, I am sure in time I will take you up on it!

I can see the pro side of this argument - especially DiddyDave's. I wasn't making comment on this actual thread, just thought it would be ok seeing as the OP has done a runner. I think I was trying to make a point from the other side, ie from someone who wants to do this himself, but properly. We (the wannabe's :D) see threads like this and hesitate to fall into the same black hole! The trouble is I might have a question but in all honesty I might not want to post incase it is seen as "one of those questions".

My own approach to the whole going pro thing has been, rightly or wrongly, softly softly slowly slowly. I'm dipping my toes into the water a bit at a time. Getting better and trying to be more consistent skill wise, reading as much as I can about as many aspects as I can. I'm impatient now - the day job drives me insane sometimes and I could do with the potential to make more money should my venture be successful. However I do know I'm not ready yet, skill wise, knowledge wise, and so on, so I will keep tiptoeing along until I feel confident enough to take the plunge.
 
-Rob- said:
I could become an electrician* tomorrow if I wanted to. I'd only need the years of training to become a competant one. It's the same with photography.


* or a mechanic, teacher, police man, fireman, insurance assessor etc etc etc.
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Sure Rob, go and become an electrician tomorrow and I will make sure to become a fireman on the same day to put out the fire you will start ... :lol:
 
Can I be the paramedic?

But I will need an electrician to cut off the electricity first before you go squirting water about! ;)
 
Can I be the Pro press tog that covers the story? I have never turned pro but I have a camera......:coat::tumbleweed:
 
Wow...only yesterday I was trying to defend this comment on another forum...

'Camera forums are horribly geeky, argumentative places!'

Well it turns out they were right, what a joke!

This thread is unbelievable - to be honest I wouldn't blame the guy if buggered off.

Where’s the report a thread button Mods?
 
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