which CSC and lens?

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steelheadnut

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Martin
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Hi there all, just arrived on the scene in the last few days, and looking for info/input from more knowlegable users of these CSC cameras.
For most of my life I've carried my SLR's/DSLR's everywhere, hill & mountain walking, fishing and just out looking for that elusive shot that's still out there.
I'm not getting any younger and I'm finding it prety tough at times, especially when doing a 15/20mile yomp over hill and dale.
My favoirite setup for my scenic shots has been (since this lens came out anyway) my Canon 5D mk11 coupled with the Distagon T* 2,8/21.
I'm looking to lighten the load a bit by (hopefully) purchasing one of these
4/3'ds. without sacrificing too much in picture quality.
Any input gratefully recieved.
Many thanks
 
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Best micro 4/3rds picture quality is either Panasonic GH3 or Olympus OM-D. They have an x2 crop factor, so the equivalent focal length of your Distagon will be around 10.5mm. Note also that a micro 4/3rds has a 4:3 aspect ratio whilst your 5D2 has a 3:2 aspect ratio which will mean the pictures are slightly different shape.

As to an equivalent lens... well that's a tough one given the reputation the Distagon has (never used one, just going off posts here and there. There is the Olympus 12mm or Panasonic 7-14mm zoom (this is better than the 17-40L I had on a 5D2 IMHO).

BTW: I moved completely from 5D2 and L lenses to micro 4/3rds. Whilst the picture quality isn't quite there, it is considerably lighter. I have the two f2.8 zooms (12-35 and 35-100 so 2470 & 70-200 f2.8 zoom equivalent) plus 7-14 and all those plus body, small bag and accessories weighs less than 2kg.
 
Like Andy, I too sold my 5D2 and L lenses and moved to m43. For my kind of photography the benefits are worth the move, I've not regretted it once, but obviously people will have different views.

The 7-14 is a great lens, super wide. I've considered getting Lee seven5 filters but that would mean I could not use them with the 7-14 and the Oly 12mm could be the better choice if you considered doing this in the future.

Other great lenses are the Pany 14mm, Pany/Leica 25mm, Pany 20mm, Oly 45mm, Oly 75mm and the Pany 100-300 (worlds apart in weight compared to my old Canon 100-400). Also the two zoom's that Andy has are supposed to be fantastic too.
 
Personaly i would go with something like a Sony Nex series of CSC camera's, This way you will still be getting a APS or full sized sensor will all the benefits of a wider field of view and bokeh as well a low light performance and Sony have added alot more lenses since the first introduced there Nex cameras.
 
ATM I don't think you can beat Fuji.

Jpegs straight out of camera are amazing and with more lens options coming onto the market this year and new bodies too, they're hard to by IMO.
 
Hotshots said:
Personaly i would go with something like a Sony Nex series of CSC camera's, This way you will still be getting a APS or full sized sensor will all the benefits of a wider field of view and bokeh as well a low light performance and Sony have added alot more lenses since the first introduced there Nex cameras.
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NEX is APS-C only AFAIK.... There is very little difference (apart from aspect ratio) in the sensor size (look it up and see) consequently, there is very little difference in depth of field (bokeh is a lens characteristic). There is, however, a MASSIVE difference in choice of lenses and quality of those lenses that are available in favour of the micro 4/3rds.

EDIT: the conversion factor between APS-C and u4/3 is 1.25x - and most of that is taken up by the change from 4:3 to 3:2....
 
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If you intent to use tele's the m4/3 is a better option, but if not look at the nex6 and 7 too.
 
A vote for the Fuji X-E1 or X-Pro1... I'm absolutely smitten by mine, it's a perfect landscape camera for me for a whole host of reasons.
 
I think I'd be a little more optimistic than Andy is above regarding the image quality you can get from a CSC v a DSLR. I personally find that if you can avoid pixel peeping at all but the highest ISO settings (my old CSC begins to struggle at ISO 800-1000 +) my G1 produces images that when viewed on screen or printed at A3 or less and viewed normally are mostly lost amongst 5D images. People I've shown images too have been unable to pick out the CSC images (I set my G1 to 3:2 not 4:3) Newer CSC will be even better.

The only problem that I personally can see at the moment with CSC is the light output from the EVF in low light and night time shooting but I seem to be pretty much the only person complaining about this issue.

I suppose the first decision to be made when going down the CSC route is do you want a built in EVF or are you happy using the back screen and possibly an add on VF?
 
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woof woof said:
The only problem that I personally can see at the moment with CSC is the light output from the EVF in low light and night time shooting but I seem to be pretty much the only person complaining about this issue.
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That's interesting, having covered the Britcar 24hr race back to back with a DSLR and CSC (Panasonic G3) I was blown away by the low light capabilities of the EVF. Long after the DSLR essentially became a 'best guess' with regards to framing the G3 was still going strong. Admittedly the view wasn't pretty (massively gained up, so like looking at an ISO28000 image constantly), but it worked.
 
Hotshots said:
Personaly i would go with something like a Sony Nex series of CSC camera's, This way you will still be getting a APS or full sized sensor will all the benefits of a wider field of view and bokeh as well a low light performance and Sony have added alot more lenses since the first introduced there Nex cameras.
Click to expand...

Only problem with the Nex for landscapes is the lack of high quality wide angle lenses. There is a 16mm with a wide angle convertor which makes it 12mm - in full frame terms these would be 24mm and 18mm. However after using the 5D mk11 and Distagon T combination you will almost certainly be disappointed with the image quality from the 16mm.

However Chris Townsend uses the Nex 7 and is happy with it:
http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/2012/08/the-sony-nex-7-superb-camera-for.html

Edit: Apparently there is a new 10~18mm e-mount lens for the Nex:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/sony_super_wa_zoom_e_mount_for_nex.shtml

Micro four thirds is another option with a better selection of native lenses, including wide angle. Fuji also have some interesting options.
 
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ukaskew said:
That's interesting, having covered the Britcar 24hr race back to back with a DSLR and CSC (Panasonic G3) I was blown away by the low light capabilities of the EVF. Long after the DSLR essentially became a 'best guess' with regards to framing the G3 was still going strong. Admittedly the view wasn't pretty (massively gained up, so like looking at an ISO28000 image constantly), but it worked.
Click to expand...

My issue is that in low light the light output from the EVF is so high that I find it causes me great discomfort to use. Yes, it's lovely and bright and you can see everything but it distroys night vision and I can't even use it for more than a shot or two in what most people would call low light but I find actually quite good light.

See this example taken in my well lit bedroom... the lighting is such that I could easily read a newspaper and yet the EVF acts like a torch even with every setting that can be turned off or down done. When the ambient light is such that the light output from the camera isn't a problem the EVF is great but in genuine low light and at wide apertures I just can't use it.

5D, 50mm f1.4 @f1.4, 1/8 sec, ISO 3200. Quite good light. G1 fitted with 55mm f1.7 @f1.7. All EVF settings set to produce the least light output possible.

IMG_9908.jpg


If anyone can shoot in indoor low light or out of town night time with their eye to an EVF producing that light output for more than a few seconds good luck to them. I can't.
 
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applemint said:
Only problem with the Nex for landscapes is the lack of high quality wide angle lenses. There is a 16mm with a wide angle convertor which makes it 12mm - in full frame terms these would be 24mm and 18mm. However after using the 5D mk11 and Distagon T combination you will almost certainly be disappointed with the image quality from the 16mm.

However Chris Townsend uses the Nex 7 and is happy with it:
http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/2012/08/the-sony-nex-7-superb-camera-for.html

Edit: Apparently there is a new 10~18mm e-mount lens for the Nex:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/sony_super_wa_zoom_e_mount_for_nex.shtml

Micro four thirds is another option with a better selection of native lenses, including wide angle. Fuji also have some interesting options.
Click to expand...

There is a 10-18 like you say. The op could also buy the zeiss 15mm and a adapter which would be the same as his 20mm on the 5d. If he doesn't want to spend that much money there is also the samyang 14mm. Both would arguable we easier to use on the nex than a 5d with its focus peaking.
 
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Excuse the delay in coming back to this, been too busy with work. Had a quick look last night and I must thank you all for your input on this issue (it is for me) of which to go for.
I'm not too worried about the tele side of it, I will get something that will give me somewhere near what my L series 400 gave me. Even though I carried it with me on all my excursions it was only rarely used, but when needed it was (for me anyway) the bizz.
That in itself will be an enormous weight saving when I go for one of the CSC systems.
The Sony nex group I have virtually ruled out.
The OM-D is still in the frame, as are the Fuji's X1 and it's underling but there are some issues I'm not sure about with these two yet :thinking:. The Canon M had a quick look at one before christmas and was disapointed with it.
I do like the simplistic button and knob features on the fuji's, that would be a plus for me. The extra grip for the Oly is a great plus,as well as being somewhat shower/waterproof, but What will swing it for me will be a lens that will give me good street and scenic shots, or panoramics if you like.
Again many thanks to you all for your contribution to this thread.
 
That was a looooooong drawn out process in finding something to replace my 5Dmk11 on the hills and mountains.
I'm diving into the Fuji pool and coming up with the X-Pro1.
I've never taken so long in trying to find something and justifying the money I'm about to spend on a setup.
So here goes, feet first :nuts:
Cap
 
woof woof said:
My issue is that in low light the light output from the EVF is so high that I find it causes me great discomfort to use. Yes, it's lovely and bright and you can see everything but it distroys night vision and I can't even use it for more than a shot or two in what most people would call low light but I find actually quite good light.

See this example taken in my well lit bedroom... the lighting is such that I could easily read a newspaper and yet the EVF acts like a torch even with every setting that can be turned off or down done. When the ambient light is such that the light output from the camera isn't a problem the EVF is great but in genuine low light and at wide apertures I just can't use it.

5D, 50mm f1.4 @f1.4, 1/8 sec, ISO 3200. Quite good light. G1 fitted with 55mm f1.7 @f1.7. All EVF settings set to produce the least light output possible.

IMG_9908.jpg


If anyone can shoot in indoor low light or out of town night time with their eye to an EVF producing that light output for more than a few seconds good luck to them. I can't.
Click to expand...

The bright EVF thing is perplexing. My G1 doesn't do it - even with the lens cap on. Have you checked your settings? Might be worth comparing yours with another to see if it's faulty.
 
hannahntilly said:
The bright EVF thing is perplexing. My G1 doesn't do it - even with the lens cap on. Have you checked your settings? Might be worth comparing yours with another to see if it's faulty.
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With the lens cap on it wont do it, well, mine wont anyway. Dunno about it being faulty as it's the only one I've ever used. I used a Nex 6 in a Sony shop and it did the same thing but I didn't have time to play with the settings so I don't know if the Nex 6 can ultimately be made better.

With eveything turned down to produce the least light possible the problem is worse when the camera is pointed at a dark scene. Point the camera at a lighter scene or even a dark scene containing a light sourse and the light output drops. I assume that in the dark there's some sort of automatic gain going on to boost the EVF that can't be fully stopped.

If you want to see what I see you'll have to shoot in low light, best to try it outdoors at night (or indoors for that matter) in really low light/darkness and for best effect try it in light that would make it difficult/impossible to read a newspaper. I would take a light reading but I haven't got a light meter. You may see the same thing or at least the start of my problem by pointing the camera into a drawer/cupboard.
 
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