Beginner which (online) camera shops to use

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#1
my last camera, a Fuji F70 EXR was second hand from ebay £120 or so. it did Ok, lasted a few years under light use, did have it's issues but these were design issues not second hand issues

what UK shops (websites?) would people recommend for something for about under £400? something I can fit in my pocket, so more or less point and shoot, altho I don't need it to be super-compact or light

I was looking at amazon (obviously I guess,,), I'm weary about ebay because ebay has had end of line stock in the past for other electronics equipment. but if I can decide on the model I guess I can use ebay for it.
 
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Chris
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#2
Probably your best place to start looking is here

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/

Really you need a shop with physical stock so you can handle various things and see what suits.
Then it gets complicated do you want new or used or are you happy with a grey import?
 
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Jeremy Moore
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#3
Camera Price Buster will give the price which most bricks and mortar shops charge, and you will notice that for most "in demand" items that price will be almost identical wherever you look.

If you're after a bargain (new) you'll need to look at the "grey" importers like HDEW, Panamoz, e-infinity, etc.

The prices will be much better and in some cases so will the guarantees. By using a grey importer you are, in effect, avoiding paying the VAT on whatever item you buy.
 
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#4
thanks, what are the list of grey importers and sources for them, do they tend to have similar quality products as the brand names? I'm ok paying the extra 10-20% for a brand name product (canon, panasonic, nikon, olympus, etc? fuji again I guess,) which doesn't have any "niggles". I'd obviously prefer not paying the 40% overhead which the high street would probably have
 
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#6
thanks, what are the list of grey importers and sources for them, do they tend to have similar quality products as the brand names? I'm ok paying the extra 10-20% for a brand name product (canon, panasonic, nikon, olympus, etc? fuji again I guess,) which doesn't have any "niggles". I'd obviously prefer not paying the 40% overhead which the high street would probably have

The kit will be exactly the same. There are arguments about how ethical it is to avoid paying VAT, which you could no doubt locate by searching for "Grey imports" ..... (if you wanted to......)

What probably is unethical is to try out some kit at a proper shop and then buy it from a grey importer. I can understand why people get upset about that.
 
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#7
If you had this argument with the taxman, it would be very short and wouldn't end well. Importing gear without paying VAT (and in some cases duty) is classed as evasion rather than avoidance or, to use the traditional term, smuggling. You are the importer, and are therefore responsible for the tax bill (sometimes, but not always, the grey market operator has this in the small print). Some of these companies say they will pay all tax and duty for you, but by that they mean only if someone demands it. Most packages slip through unnoticed, especially as values are routinely under declared.
 
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#11
If you had this argument with the taxman, it would be very short and wouldn't end well. Importing gear without paying VAT (and in some cases duty) is classed as evasion rather than avoidance or, to use the traditional term, smuggling. You are the importer, and are therefore responsible for the tax bill (sometimes, but not always, the grey market operator has this in the small print). Some of these companies say they will pay all tax and duty for you, but by that they mean only if someone demands it. Most packages slip through unnoticed, especially as values are routinely under declared.

As you know this argument has been aired many many times here. In reality, until someone in the government or HMRC decides to stamp down on grey importers, the practice will continue unhindered and people will save plenty of cash. And until the manufacturers, official importers and retailers of camera gear put a stop to the apparent price fixing that they are all involved in, I will continue to buy grey, if I need more kit..
 

nandbytes

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#14
until the manufacturers, official importers and retailers of camera gear put a stop to the apparent price fixing that they are all involved in
I believe price fixing is also illegal?
If you have actually proof you can probably take them all to court
 
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#16
I believe price fixing is also illegal?
If you have actually proof you can probably take them all to court
Of course, there's nothing to stop anyone legally importing a camera while declaring and paying the correct tax, in cases where the overseas price is genuinely cheaper before tax.
 
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#17
I believe price fixing is also illegal?
If you have actually proof you can probably take them all to court
There's your problem - many cartels & "retail price maintenance" operations having been uncovered in the past the participants are somewhat more circumspect about how they enforce it and how it's communicated.

Put simply - if the distributor doesn't like your pricing strategy, he won't sell you the stock and because he's a monopoly in your region you can no longer sell that product/brand/line. Distributor refusing to sell is not illegal and he doesn't need to give a reason.
 
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#18
You need a shop to go, to look at and hold the camera you fancy, get the feel of it, ask advice from the assistant, some shops have assistants particularly more hands on with a specific model or brand. Then support the shop by buying from them.
 
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#22
As you know this argument has been aired many many times here. In reality, until someone in the government or HMRC decides to stamp down on grey importers, the practice will continue unhindered and people will save plenty of cash. And until the manufacturers, official importers and retailers of camera gear put a stop to the apparent price fixing that they are all involved in, I will continue to buy grey, if I need more kit..
Google "no grey imports". Many of the trusted retailers provide the pitfalls of grey imports. With a number of the gery importers being based in places like Hong Kong it's infinity more difficult to sort of getting money back if things go wrong.
 
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#25
not been there for ages but think they are only Nikon, I have Canon.
I don't remember seeing Canon (but I wasn't looking for them), but I think I looked at a Nikon, Panasonic, and a Leica as well when I was there, so they may have expanded? Maybe not! I only popped in to kill a little time, sorry I don't remember more.
 
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#27
I believe price fixing is also illegal?
If you have actually proof you can probably take them all to court

Of course I don't have proof. There is probably a get-out clause somewhere that they are taking advantage of but the facts stand for themselves.

There are far more important problems to spend one's time trying to solve - the Climate Crisis being the most obvious one. But until the retailers/importers/manufacturers change their ways I will continue to buy grey without feeling any guilt whatsoever.
 
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#28
Of course I don't have proof. There is probably a get-out clause somewhere that they are taking advantage of but the facts stand for themselves.

There are far more important problems to spend one's time trying to solve - the Climate Crisis being the most obvious one. But until the retailers/importers/manufacturers change their ways I will continue to buy grey without feeling any guilt whatsoever.
It does seem your statement re: price fixing an opinion rather than substantiated fact to rid yourself of guilt of buying grey?

Some grey imports of course are somewhat legitimate and can come about if a region overestimates the deamnd for a model and reduces the price to shift stock. The savvy "retailers" bulk buy at this reduced price and then some of the reductions are passed on to end customers in other regions.
 
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#29
It does seem your statement re: price fixing an opinion rather than substantiated fact to rid yourself of guilt of buying grey?

Some grey imports of course are somewhat legitimate and can come about if a region overestimates the deamnd for a model and reduces the price to shift stock. The savvy "retailers" bulk buy at this reduced price and then some of the reductions are passed on to end customers in other regions.

You only have to look at Camera Price Buster to see how true my statement is. Just one example, picked at random. Good god, I can save £0.50p by buying from Ffordes!

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk...System-Cameras/Olympus-OM-D-E-M1X-Camera-Body
 

StephenM

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#30
I did read (and therefore this is purely unsubstantiated hearsay) one person who worked at a dealers stating that his company was selling a certain camera at below the importer's recommended price; and as a result they were told that if they didn't stop this and put the price up, they would no longer be supplied by said importer. If true, this is price fixing; but equally, the importers are under no obligation to sell to a particular dealer, and presumably under no obligation to say why they refuse to sell, avoiding any possibility of proving price fixing.

As a dealer, would you go along with price fixing, or choose instead to go out of business (or import yourself)?
 
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#31
You only have to look at Camera Price Buster to see how true my statement is. Just one example, picked at random. Good god, I can save £0.50p by buying from Ffordes!

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk...System-Cameras/Olympus-OM-D-E-M1X-Camera-Body
Let's see what we can get this for on the grey market:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=OM-D+E-M1X&tbm=shop

The cheapest prices I see are £1,848.99 from a grey market dealer with its own website, and £1,799.99 from an Amazon trader (presumably grey market).

The Camerapricebuster price is £2199, or £1832.50 before 20% VAT was added, so most or all of the 'discount' in this case comes from not paying the tax.

This isn't always the case, though - the best grey prices for the Nikon D850 are about £300 less than the lowest UK pre-tax price.
 
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