who would own this copyright?

Robbo

Robbo

Messages
3,962
Edit My Images
Yes
Basically, I now take pictures for my employer. They have given me permission to shoot on site, which you cannot take picture on without authorisation.

So, when I take picture in my normal working hours the sopyright automaticlly belongs to the company as its durings works time.

however, if I came out in my own time and got the pictures, would this still make them copyright of the company, or would I own the copyright as I am not under my working hours at that time?
 
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988

Section 11 said:
irst ownership of copyright.

(1) The author of a work is the first owner of any copyright in it, subject to the following provisions.

(2) Where a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work [F1, or a film,] is made by an employee in the course of his employment, his employer is the first owner of any copyright in the work subject to any agreement to the contrary.
Click to expand...

If it's not in the course of your employment, then the copyright in photographs belongs to you.

However, the question then balances around the terms of the permission that they gave you to shoot on the site, and the terms of your contract of employment. If it says that they own the copyright in any photographs you take on the site, even if it's outside the course of your employment, then it's theirs. If it doesn't, they don't.

If they say you're only permitted to take photographs on the site during the course of your employment, and you're normally prohibited from taking photographs on site (for reasons of security, confidentiality, etc.) then you may still own the copyright, but they may in turn have you for a breach of contract. Potentially something of a pyrrhic victory.

edit: If it's unclear, the simplest and safest thing to do would be to seek clarification from your employer whether the terms of your permission to take photographs extends to those for your private use (and any other purpose to which you might put them).
 
Last edited:
Go on, you got me curious, what do you do and what do you photograph??
 
POAH said:
unless there is a contract in place the copyright belongs to you
Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite a simple as that, a verbal contract can still stand in law as I understand it, and the fact the pics are taken as part of your employment complicates it's further.
If the OP is employed as a photographer then the chances are all the photos he takes as part of his work belong to the company, if he's allowed access to a site for the purpose of taking photographs for the firm thats a condition of entry essentially, even after hours he's still there on behalf of his company, he wasn't allowed in to take pics for himself (unless they let him back in after hours)
If on the other hand he does something else for a living (a plumber say) then I'd say the copyright probably stays with him, but it might be worth drawing up a simple contract and getting the boss to sing it to cover himself.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read somewhere that it also depends whose equipment you use.

If your employer supplies the camera equipment, although you take the photo's, the copyright belongs to the employer.

True or False?
 
I use all my own equipment, liability insurance and equipment insurance. and also a registered business as a photographer as my second employment.

I have been given written authorisation to take picture on the site on duty and off duty.

I am an industrial firefighter/ambulance technician. So it's way off my normal roles etc

I do try to quiz them but they always seem to fob me off and say 'don't you think that's going to deep'
 
Last edited:
More pertinent is probably what you're permitted to do with the images, regardless of the copyright situation.

Unless your permission to take the photographs is more explicit, shooting on private property you can only assume that your permission extends as far as taking the shots for private viewing. I'd be very cautious about posting images online and definitely avoid anything remotely commercial or advertising your photography business unless you have very clear permission from someone in a position to give it. Anyone that's fobbing you off with, "'don't you think that's going to deep" probably doesn't have the authorisation to permit you to use them for anything other than personal use, perhaps in a closed portfolio but not online.
 
I have to express a little suprise seeing that you didn't sort this out beforehand as you are quote " a registered business as a photographer as my second employment." unquote. I could understand if you did it as a favour and just a hobby photographer but not as a professional.
There have been umteen posts about copywrite on here so its not as though you are unaware of the problems that crop up from time to time.

Realspeed
 
Last edited:
realspeed said:
I have to express a little suprise seeing that you didn't sort this out beforehand as you are quote " a registered business as a photographer as my second employment." unquote. I could understand if you did it as a favour and just a hobby photographer but not as a professional.
There have been umteen posts about copywrite on here so its not as though you are unaware of the problems that crop up from time to time.

Realspeed
Click to expand...

at the time when it all started it was a one off shoot for the company as a favour. At this time I was not a registered business either. So as things naturally progressed in my personal side and the company side things have got a little out of sync.

So naturally my employer want to utilise my photography etc which has now left me in this position.

Its hard to find the right person as they only want to class this as a 'favour to the company' still.....and pretty much refuse to make anything official. But im getting to the stage with them where I want terms and condition on the images taken and my use so I know exactely where I stand with things.

Its not the easiest company to talk to........
 
Robbo said:
I am an industrial firefighter/ambulance technician.
Click to expand...

I am not quite sure what that means. Is it someone who fixes the equipment and gets it ready for being back into service, but are effectively a third-party to the Firefighters/Paramedics?

If so, if you have been given permission to use your camera onsite for the purposes of advertising the companies ability to fix the machines, then you could probably go to your boss/company head with a short letter requesting authorisation to take similar pictures for your own use, to show the technical aspects of what you can photograph.
However, I would suspect that you would not be able to take pictures which could identify the items which you are taking photographs of.

If you are however part of the fire-service/ambulance department, then I suspect that you could be slightly more liberal. Again, a short letter asking for permission to use these for private and non-commercial use would probably be accepted.

I feel that the authorisation that you have probably been given, is implicitly defining that whilst you are taking photographs onsite in a restricted area, then you are doing it with that authorisation in place, no matter at what time you are taking those photos. (In fact, if it is a restricted place, it could be argued that you should not have your camera with you outside of your normal working hours). I would suspect that the rights/authorisation would be with your employers without express permission for it to be otherwise.

You may own the copyright perhaps, but you would possibly end up in a lot of trouble for using the images for anything which wasn't company business.
 
Last edited:
Robbo said:
however, if I came out in my own time and got the pictures, would this still make them copyright of the company, or would I own the copyright as I am not under my working hours at that time?
Click to expand...

I reckon your employer may be able to argue the case there's continuity involved but I believe technically you would own the copyright.

Bit of a grey area, would it risk your employment opportunities with them and if so would a photograph be worth that?
 
I am front line turn out for fire and ambulance calls on site...... The technician bit isnsimplynte ambulance training course we do, not mechanical related.

The pictures normally would be to promote our business etc.... All pictures get approval before my company uses them etc to make sure they are suitable for public viewing..... So there is no restricted items in the pictures etc.

The permission has been granted for 24 hour use on the site, but all pictures have to be approved before they get used.

Think it's to much of a grey area for me to try figure out and my company doesn't sound like they know either, so I'm off to see a solicitor and explain the situation etc to get some info I can use that I know will be right.

All I want is something on paper so I know where I stand
 
So I'm guessing your at an airport or steelworks type place with it's own fire/rescue service, as such photography isn't a normal part of your work.
 
swanseamale47 said:
So I'm guessing your at an airport or steelworks type place with it's own fire/rescue service, as such photography isn't a normal part of your work.
Click to expand...

yes its industrial work with a private company. I might wait a year and send an invoice hahaha that might see me down a long winding road lol
 
Well, personally, I would say that in this situation, all photographs taken within the companies time, should be considered the companies property.
However, I would say that you should approach the person who has granted you the 24 hour permit, and ask for them to clear you a 30 minute, or 1 hour break within that time to take some photographs for your own use, which you will ensure are submitted for clearance in the same way as your 'normal' photographs, but which could remain your own property rather than the companies.
That way, you have agreed a set time, where anything which the company might not consider wanting to get into the public eye can be removed, and you can take the photographs 'under supervision' so that someone knows that you are taking them, and are going to remove them at some stage. You would also have cleared the photographs through the 'official channels', meaning there could be no comeback if there was a slip-up later (and there would be a record of the removal/taking of the pictures).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top