Why do some have on-camera flash?

foodpoison

foodpoison

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Sean
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Yes
And some don't?

I'm talking the 1D and 5D both have no on-board camera flash, as well as the D3's and I'm assuming the D2's, yet the lower range ones DO. Why is this?

Is it because real photographers are experienced and brilliant enough to know not to use the on-board flash? Or is it some design improvement?

:shrug:!
 
Yeah right lol the d300 has one and we all know thats just an entry level dslr LOL
 
I think it's because when you get to a camera of that level, you should be above such things as onboard flash.

Personally, I think if you can have it, you probably should. Never know when it might be just enough to save the day. :)
 
Just a guess here but....

Higher spec bodies are more likely to be paired up with higher spec lenses. Sticking a 50L or 85L on a 5D would result in the lens body creating a shadow due to the large diameter at the forward end.

:shrug:

Bob
 
gaffer said:
It is just a mark of a pro camera.

Pro cameras don't have:
- A dial with settings for portrait, landscape, sport etc.
- A green rectangle
- A print button
- Pop-up flash

Andrew
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Sorry, I disagree, it is the MARK of someone with loadsamoney! If you can afford to buy a D3 or 1D, you can afford to buy a separate flash as far as Nikon and Canon are concerned :p :D :naughty:




But seriously, I think it is basically that the people using these cameras are generally paid photographers or long standing amateurs, already with plenty of kit including flash guns so there is no demand for on board. I have no doubt there is also an element of manufacturer snobbery about their top models and not wanting them to appeal to the 'inexperienced' market involved too, as I think those bodies could probably accomodate the extra gubbins for on board if there was a demand for it or the makers wanted to put one there.
 
Interesting, i`d always thought that it ws to improve the build of the camera, as having on board flash (I heard) creates a weaker area.



Probably wrong......and no I can`t remember where I saw it.
 
Probably true, if you dropped a D3 or a 1D onto a concrete slab you'd crack the slab then carry on using it:D
 
The full frame sensor on the pro spec cameras means you get a full frame pentaprism and a full frame viewfinder. That takes up room at the top of the camera. If you tried to include a popup flash as well it would make the camera look silly, and no pro wants their expensive gear to look silly. Popup flashes are included in the consumer grade cameras, like the Nikon D300 and Canon 300D, because it's the right thing to do, and there's room to do it. Unfortunately, the pro cameras are a bit of a compromise, for the sake of vanity.

:exit:

(Yes, I am joking.)
 
On board flash also compromises the amount of space available for the prism/mirror arrangement so you wouldn't get as bright a viewfinder image I believe.

Also as above for weakening the overall structural integrity of the shell and therefore it's resilience.
 
I've always thought it was a couple of things:

dazzajl said:
I think it's because when you get to a camera of that level, you should be above such things as onboard flash.
Click to expand...

MarkEvan said:
Interesting, i`d always thought that it ws to improve the build of the camera, as having on board flash (I heard) creates a weaker area.
Click to expand...

I also thought that putting a pop up flash on the waterproofed cameras would create an, again, weak spot.
 
Plus in the old film days, EOS 3 and EOS 1 are weather sealed, having a flash that pops up really ruin that seal.
 
I hate built-in flashes on SLRs. The output is tiny - enough for a portrait and not much else - and they are by far the flimsiest part of the camera. I think they detract from the overall build quality.

Agree that it's something that a pro wouldn't use or want.

I was pleased to see the 5D doesn't have one - although it does have a green rectangle and print button, so work that out :)

A.
 
Used a Minolta *Dynax7 professionally for many years. Whilst only used pop up flash rarely, in some situations I couldn't have managed without it.
EG: In very cramped back of car shots and for triggering separate [remote] flash heads :bonk:

*Superb bit of kit in all respects
 
ivortripod said:
Used a Minolta *Dynax7 professionally for many years. Whilst only used pop up flash rarely, in some situations I couldn't have managed without it.
EG: In very cramped back of car shots and for triggering separate [remote] flash heads :bonk:

*Superb bit of kit in all respects
Click to expand...

Those were the days;)
 
tdodd said:
The full frame sensor on the pro spec cameras means you get a full frame pentaprism and a full frame viewfinder. That takes up room at the top of the camera. If you tried to include a popup flash as well it would make the camera look silly, and no pro wants their expensive gear to look silly. Popup flashes are included in the consumer grade cameras, like the Nikon D300 and Canon 300D, because it's the right thing to do, and there's room to do it. Unfortunately, the pro cameras are a bit of a compromise, for the sake of vanity.

:exit:

(Yes, I am joking.)
Click to expand...

the d300 is not a consumer camera-nikon list it as professional omg
 
I think it's important to differentiate clearly between on board flash (i.e. a flash mounted on the camera, shoe, etc) and built-in which is what's being discussed here. I never use built-in flash, even as an amateur. I can't see any reason why the upper level cameras (D200/30D onwards) would really need it, other than for emergencies.
 
I use a D200 day and night all the time, I have 4 lash guns inc sb600 & sb800 also in my kit is a mobile studio light rig but I must admit there has been a few times that i have thanked god for that little pop up flash.

Lets face it all these people who have said I have a built in flash but never use it *** its rubbish.....You still bought the camera even thou it has it!

There are somemany bits and bobs on all these different cameras, i think its down to each person.

If you like it and use it fair enough, if not fair enough.
There are soooo many different shots out there and im sure for all use with built in flash we have ended up using it and with good results.

Phil
 
digitalmaniac said:
the d300 is not a consumer camera-nikon list it as professional omg
Click to expand...

i cant believe it was mentioned in the same sentence as the canon 300d.

In my opinion, the top pro model doesnt have one because its believed it would be never used.

if you own a camera as big as the d3, you lug all the kit with you.

There are many a time i use my d200 with my built in, rather than attaching the sb600, Purely for convienience, theres nothing convienient about lugging a d3 around.

Someone mentioned its because you cant fit one on a cam with a full size sensor without it looking silly, sorry, total crap, otherwise every film slr ever made with built in flash would look silly.
 
Monkey said:
i cant believe it was mentioned in the same sentence as the canon 300d.
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You Nikon guys bite so easily. I even put "Only joking", and still you went for it. If only real fishing was this easy. :D
 
Monkey said:
i cant believe it was mentioned in the same sentence as the canon 300d.

In my opinion, the top pro model doesnt have one because its believed it would be never used.

if you own a camera as big as the d3, you lug all the kit with you.

There are many a time i use my d200 with my built in, rather than attaching the sb600, Purely for convienience, theres nothing convienient about lugging a d3 around.

Someone mentioned its because you cant fit one on a cam with a full size sensor without it looking silly, sorry, total crap, otherwise every film slr ever made with built in flash would look silly.
Click to expand...

tdodd said:
You Nikon guys bite so easily. I even put "Only joking", and still you went for it. If only real fishing was this easy. :D
Click to expand...

NIKON people stick together! :bat::bat::bat:

:woot::woot::woot:
 
I had the EOS 30 for about 7 years, the 30D for 2 years and I have only used the pop up flash about twice on the EOS 30 and NEVER on the 30D. I only used it on the EOS 30 to see what it is like and I don't even know if the pop up flash on the 30D works or not !!!
 
The built in flash is great when you are using your camera in commander mode to trigger off board speed lights.
 
Out of interest can you use the pop up flash and a real hotshoe flash at the same time?
 
well you can if you put it on a bracket or use it in commander off camera-I use it to set it off. or studios flash for that matter-lot cheaper than a remote.
 
Quick question for digitalmaniac. (I've not got Nikon so I don't know commander mode)

Does the fact you are firing a flash from the camera not affect the output? By that I mean you are introducing a light source into a studio shot, what effect does that have on the metering and if you were trying to do low key would it not cause havoc by showing up as a light source in the pic?

Just curious as I'm not going to do it :)
 
AliB said:
Does the fact you are firing a flash from the camera not affect the output? By that I mean you are introducing a light source into a studio shot, what effect does that have on the metering and if you were trying to do low key would it not cause havoc by showing up as a light source in the pic?

Just curious as I'm not going to do it :)
Click to expand...

You can set the on board flash to pre flash only so it won't effect the picture but still trigger the external flash.
 
No not at all you just set it to its lowest output and with the powerfull 600ws heads doesnt even register.
 
Am now wondering why anyone sells radio or IR triggers if it can be done with a flash! lol
 
Because in some complicated setups on a large scale a flash head might be out of view of the other light sources-such as largew sets-plus its slightly more Pro LOL
 
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