why do you shoot digital... film is so much better!

i can just picture it now ,some people are just visiting their newly married friends ,,thanks for coming to the wedding ,
thanks for inviting us ,can we see the pictures ?
yes let us know when you've got five hours free and we can go through them ,,,all,,,yawn :)
 
I know we have debated this before but I wonder if it is because people demand it.

Do wedding photographers give customers 100s of images now because that is what is expected or do customers expect 100s of images because that is all everyone offers?

Steve.

Yes and yes
 
When my film SLR gave up the ghost in 1998ish, most of what I tokk photos of (railway photography) had gone by the wayside, so I survived using a variety of film compacts which gave results varying from just about acceptable to rubbish.

With the advent of digital I decided to get a bridge camera in 2006 and upgraded to a DSLR in 2008. I now take photos again, as opposed to 'record' shots and it was digital that got me back into it.

I now have upgrade-itis and want to get a 70D when the prices are a bit lower, but I would never have done the equivalent of this with a film camera.

My DSLR has come into its own over the past couple of years as well with the arrival of my daughter, so digital has beeen excellent for me.
 
I cant believe your gettin uptight about costs to the extent your using the power consumed by your pc as a way to prove film better. Do you sit at home staring at the tv scared to turn it on.

Digital is cheaper. Why? Because most people have a pc and a hard drive so you arent buying that just because you have brought a dslr.

Film is more time consuming and costs more. And yes digital cameras cost more but if youve had your film gear for some time you will have paid alot for it when you got it.

I thought cost was no longer an issue..:)

im not fussed about costs otherwise id have picked a cheaper hobby
 
I know we have debated this before but I wonder if it is because people demand it.

Do wedding photographers give customers 100s of images now because that is what is expected or do customers expect 100s of images because that is all everyone offers?


Steve.

Maybe customers look at the bill, consider how "easy" (perception) photography is now its gone digital, and want to see their moneys worth.

"If I'm paying this photographer £1000 for a day, I want every chuffin picture the bugger shoots"

Its a tough game fighting that every job but again its a very small section of the photographic public.
 
"If I'm paying this photographer £1000 for a day, I want every chuffin picture the bugger shoots"


I look at it another way.

"If £1000 gets me 500 pictures, just give me 50 and I will pay you £100!!!"


Steve.
 
I cant believe your gettin uptight about costs to the extent your using the power consumed by your pc as a way to prove film better.
First up, I have made no assertion to the effect film is 'better'; and have said over again, the difference is mostly merely a matter of convenience.

And countered the argument that 'Digital if Free'... because it ISN'T.

And I'm not getting uptight about power consumption, just reminding people it exists; if you had to buy dry cell-batteries rather than plug in a charger to the mains; you'd not be so quick to call it 'free'. Its only 'free' because you choose not to look at the bill.

Do you sit at home staring at the tv scared to turn it on.

Up until a year or so ago... I would have said 'No.... I dont HAVE a TV... why would I want one?'... however, I was asked to repair a pair of large-panel LCD TV's and see if I could make one good'm out of the two.. I couldn't, they both had the same problem, blown power-packs.. so I bought a replacement, fixed one and gave it back, and tripping over the other, decided "I might as well fix this.... it has a VGA port... could use it as a monitor" So I do now.

Do I sit staring at it scared to switch it on? YES!

NOT because of the electricity it uses, though, but if I do switch it on, I'll probably end up subjected to five hours of Simon Cowell and or Ant & Dec, and a possible rebellion on my hands if I try and turn the bluggers off again!

Digital is cheaper. Why? Because most people have a pc and a hard drive so you arent buying that just because you have brought a dslr.

Perhaps; but you have to accept that if they are going to use that PC and it's hard drive to support their photography, then some of its cost ought to be attributed to that persuit.

And as said, when you run out of hard-drive space; because you have filled it up with photos and have to buy another, THAT is a cost entirely atributable to photography, and occurs, at intervals the more pictures you take.

It's NOT 'free' after the camera. There are recurring costs, as with everything, they just happen at different intervals.

Like the electric, you can try and kid yourself they dont exist, or that they belong to something else, but that's just fools economics.

Film is more time consuming and costs more

Not necesserily true at all. As I said, if you dont cherry pick and snip; ANY hobby or persuit will consume whatever time and money you let it. We live to the limit of our means.

Shoot film? You'll spend whatever you have doing it. Shoot Digital. You'll spend whatever you have doing it. Time and money. The media will merely shift where and when you spend what and on what.

And yes digital cameras cost more but if youve had your film gear for some time you will have paid alot for it when you got it.

Not necesserily; I have been shooting Film SLR's since 1989. My first SLR 'outfit' was worth probably £50 tops including the bag! When I eventually killed the camera, an OM10, I replaced it with one second hand in Jessops for £15, and that was in 1993! I have NEVER paid more than £50 for a camera until Digital came along.

In digital, as its so easy and convenient, to store and share in the digital domain.. and harder to make a hard copy..

What absolute nonsense. How is it harder to make a hard copy of an image? It would take less than a minute from walking in my front door to having a hard copy of a digital image if I wanted to print straight out of camera. Failing that 10 minutes tops in post processing and then uploaded to whoever I want it printing by if I want something special doing.

Read the quote you have snipped again.... where have I tried to suggest its harder to make a print in digital than from film?

Its harder to make a hard copy of a digital file, than it is to leave it in the digital domain... no?

End of the day a picture is worth a thousand words... and talk is cheap, so I could end this post on the suggestion, if you dont value your photo's go digital, its cheap; if you do, use film, its costs, but its worth it.

All of which is your highly subjective opinion. The skill of the photographer has a far higher impact on an image than what medium was used.

If you want to play the selective snip game, I could make it look like you said that black was white.... BUT complete the quote....

But bottom line is neither is a whole truth; and what matters is that pictures get taken, and pictures get looked at... and their 'worth' is in the enjoyement they give.

So I state a proposition, then deny it, and you then try and re-present the proposition I have denied, as my opinion, so you can argue that my alledged opinion is wrong?!?!? I've already denied it fella, AND agreed with you?!?!?!?!?
 
When I purchased my last PC, I made sure to upgrade the RAM and added an additional hard drive purely for photography reasons - to speed up editing and for photo storage.

If I didn't use the PC for photography, I'd still own one. But it would be lower spec and cheaper.
 
I'm 60 and wouldn't use film if you gave me a camera and a lifetimes supply of the stuff, does that help ?

....I'm 66 and I feel the same.

However, I have great respect for those who still use film partly because I used to do so as well. I stopped when DSLR's became well established but I still professionally Art Directed specialist professionals who used plate cameras.

As previously posted, it's horses-for-courses and whichever you enjoy using most. (y)
 
Immediately people start mentioning running costs and economics etc, my eyes glaze over.

I take the view that if you have to analyse costs such as energy usage, then you can't afford it.

Clients who are over interested in milking the number of shots out of you aren't worth the hassle of having and probably won't appreciate what you give them anyway. My clients came to me for my reputation (as a professional Art Director and Designer).

Photography is a creative industry is it not? - Are watercolour artists better than oil painters?
 
Is this argument/debate still going?

Surely people can accept eveyone is different has different wants/needs etc and so on format suits them better doesn't mean that just because it's different form yours they are wrong or right at the end of the day its personally choice. Me personally I shoot with my phone my DSLR and recently started using a SLR too I am yet to have any film developed but I am looking forward to seeing the results good or bad I hope it will help imporve my photography
 
No, quite the reverse (trying to start another argument!).

Steve.

And I think watercolour painters have it easy compared to the the hardships the old fashioned oil painters face, its a daily struggle for them don't you think Steve
 
Is this argument/debate still going?

Yes.

But after reading this entire thread and following careful research, I can confirm film is better.

Thread can now be closed.

Thank you and goodnight.

:)
 
Its funny ive been following this thread and still havent really seen a reason why film would be classed as better?

It just is!

But to be temporarily serious, you're right. There is nothing here to prove that film is better. Equally, there is nothing here to prove that digital is better either,


Steve
 
Id say digital is better due to the flexibility it gives and that it works out cheaper per shot BUT thats not to say we should all be doing it its personal preference. A wildlife tog would laugh his socks off if you told him to shoot film where as someone doing a few landscapes may think its worth using film.

Point is no one on here will listen to anyone else and you will all do as you please... and for once thats a good thing
 
Well we have the two Steve confirmation that film is better.

Just need a third Steve for it to enshrined in law.
 
And why would he? Hed get through films like no tomorrow. Itd be pointless

if he shot like most digital shooters ,yes


anyway my names steve and so is my wife and we both say film is better
so its now the law
 
Id say digital is better due to the flexibility it gives and that it works out cheaper per shot BUT thats not to say we should all be doing it its personal preference. A wildlife tog would laugh his socks off if you told him to shoot film where as someone doing a few landscapes may think its worth using film. Point is no one on here will listen to anyone else and you will all do as you please... and for once thats a good thing

There are usually a couple of photos from film in the wildlife photographer of the year exhibition. Not all wildlife photography is run and gun. A lot of the bird photography on here could be done with a large format view cameras- at least it looks like it with the birds being stuffed and stuck to a branch! ;)
 
Because he wants to.

You know all of those wildlife shots which were taken before digital existed? Guess what they used!

Steve.

You mean back when digital wasnt around and people had no choice but to use lots of films wasting alot of frames?

Until a reason film is better is stated then digital wins im afraid
 
:LOL: Phill - you really, really haven't grasped the idea behind this thread have you... :LOL:
 
:LOL: Phill - you really, really haven't grasped the idea behind this thread have you... :LOL:

Maybe the wildlife that Phil's talking about has more to do with town centres on a Saturday night. :D
 
For you, yes.

And for me - Until a reason digital is better is stated then film wins (but I'm not afraid).

Steve.

Reasons have been stated you just choose to ignore them. Hence why this thread is a waste of time
 
Digital has well surpassed the quality of film in general. Nobody should have to argue why. If you love dilm, good for you. Why the need to moan and whine against digital because of it? It's just another artsy fartsy thing wannabe elitists do.
 
Digital has well surpassed the quality of film in general.

Yes as far as 35mm is concerned, about equal for medium format, but once you get up to 5" x 4" digital doesn't stand a chance.

Then you can get larger formats such as 10" x 8" up to 20" x 24" - digital, no chance!

My view is that as far as resolution goes, for the same sensor/film size, they are about equal. Something you can do easily with film but not with sensors is make it bigger.

Film excels as far as dynamic range goes, especially black and white negative, highlights don't blow out anywhere near as quickly as they do with digital.

Digital excels at ease and convenience.

They both have their places and uses.

Why the need to moan and whine against digital because of it?

Most of the whining and moaning here is from digital users. Us film types are eccentrics who don't care what other people think of us!

Hence why this thread is a waste of time

You are very welcome to stop wasting your time here. The rest of us are enjoying it.


Steve.
 
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http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/film-resolution.htm is worth reading. Film is way ahead of digital on resolution still.

My normal scans from the minolta are 5400 dpi or 36mp which nikon have only just reached with their FF camera.


Ken says:

To scan most of the detail on a 35mm photo, you'll need about 864 x 0.1, or 87 Megapixels.

But wait: each film pixel represents true R, G and B data, not the softer Bayer interpolated data from digital camera sensors. A single-chip 87 MP digital camera still couldn't see details as fine as a piece of 35mm film.

Such a shame film is a total faff compared to digital.
 
I think some people may be missing the tongue in cheek nature of many posts.

Which is why this thread has continued for so long without getting closed....so that shows that it has been treated as light hearted banter by most.

Methinks the digital users doth protest too much...think deep down they wish they were film users, but they are trapped into conforming to the i-everything digital society.

Break free from those shackles and run wild with the wolves...you know you want to.
 
Asking me why I use film with its inherent 'problems' such as having to process it and having to own a bulky enlarger to print it is a bit like asking me why I play a big hollow body guitar which is susceptible to feedback when I could use a modern* and compact solid body guitar to do the same task.

Equally, it's like asking why I choose to use a valve amplifier with it's quite high distortion figure and its propensity to compress when played hard due to its high internal resistance power supply when I could use a modern, near hi-fi quality amplifier with a switch mode power supply.

The answer to both of these and the film/digital argument is that in each case, either does the same thing - they just do it differently and the difference is why I make the choice.

It's my choice and is not dictated by anyone elses opinions or expectations - which is exactly the way it should be.

Taking the valve amp vs. solid state amp case I referred to. On paper, looking at specifications, the solid state amp is by far the better choice but play a guitar through it and it will sound clinical and boring. Play through the valve amp and the guitar comes to life.

Now, which one is better?

(* actually designed in 1948 so not really modern!).


Steve.
 
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Whatever you apply the term 'better' to, it's entirely subjective.

Some folks prefer one thing and other folks prefer another. What's 'better' is only what you feel is better for you and, if you are happy, who cares what anyone else thinks.

[/end of]
 
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