Why have Canon bodies become so unreliable

8utters

8utters

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This is somewhat of a rant, but i'm interested to see if anyone else is having serious reliability issues with their Canon bodies as of late.

I've been a professional photographer for almost 15 years now, and in the last 3-4 years have had more issues with Canon bodies than I have in the previous decade.

Thoughout my entire early stages of photography, since I was about 18 in the early 2000s, I've used the Canon, Sony and Nikon for years with almost no problems. I put nearly half a million shutter actuations into multiple 5D Mark II and Mark III bodies with zero issues. I used Sony for a few years without so much as a single error message. I'm an event photographer and formally press, so my bodies have always had fairly heavy use.

In recent years i've had constant issues with Canon cameras:

Canon R3
I bought an R3 just over a year ago and it's broken FOUR times. It's had two complete shutter replacements, multiple error messages and has just broken yet again after it's latest shutter replacement in November.

Canon C70
I use this camera regularly, and have had two of them completely break. The first bricked itself 2 weeks after purchase. WEX replaced it with a new one which then failed about 6 months later requiring a complete PCB replacement.

It's not just me that's had issues with this camera, but all of the other freelancers I work with. Between us we've sent back about 10-15 C70s for repair for multiple issues: base plate breaking, lens mount errors, LCD becoming lose and falling off, units completely bricking themselves, dead pixels, autofocus failures and more.

Canon R6
Currently showing an Err 20 error, potentially relating to the shutter. It still works though, the error dispears after it boots. Has done less than half of it's shutter actuation rating, not even 100,000 actuations and the R6 shutter is rated to 300,000 actuations.

I have an R5 that's so far not had any major issues, it's only 7 months old, but does have a super loose hotshoe that i'm concerned will break off, and I know people have had singificant issues with their R5s.

What is going on at Canon. Professional grade bodies like the R3 that cost upwards of £5k should not have this many problems. I could write off a single shutter replacement as getting unlucky, but four camera failures and 2 shutter replacements in under 18 months is a joke.

Anyone else having reliability issues with mirrorless Canon cameras in recent years?
 
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Ouch. I have small niggles, nothing of this magnitude. Things like tripod plate not attaching securely due to plastic build and hole being right on the edge to downright feeling s*** in hand. And age old crappy evf in r6

Plastic build, overly shrunk tight packaging of hot internals doesn't give much confidence.

However I'm not using r6 anywhere near as much as you.
5d3 is still the main real estate workhorse
5ds still used for landscape but I was considering upgrade potentially sideways to different brand
 
Yeah the plastic base plate seems to ben a corner Canon have cut in recent years.

The C70 has an inadequate base plate that's not properly connected to the actual chassis of the body. I've seen C70 bodies with the entire plastic base plate ripped clean off.
 
It appears not to be a new phenomenon.

This page, from 2010, claims that Canon had the highest percentage failure rate in the mid range at that time...

www.techlicious.com

The Most (and Least) Reliable Digital Camera Brands

The last thing you want is to be on a vacation or a wedding and have your camera die on you. But how do you know which cameras are the most reliable? A new study from SquareTrade gives us the answers.
www.techlicious.com www.techlicious.com
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
It appears not to be a new phenomenon.

This page, from 2010, claims that Canon had the highest percentage failure rate in the mid range at that time...

www.techlicious.com

The Most (and Least) Reliable Digital Camera Brands

The last thing you want is to be on a vacation or a wedding and have your camera die on you. But how do you know which cameras are the most reliable? A new study from SquareTrade gives us the answers.
www.techlicious.com www.techlicious.com
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That would be the original 5d with mirrors falling off and 5dii without any weather sealing. Hence I never owned either and went for used 1dsii instead until 5d3 arrived.
Canon is now back at it. The more it breaks the more they {think} they can sell again
 
8utters said:
Honestly i'm considering moving back to Sony again.
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They also have more and better glass while canon now produces either spec sheet monsters or f9 jokes
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
It appears not to be a new phenomenon.

This page, from 2010, claims that Canon had the highest percentage failure rate in the mid range at that time...

www.techlicious.com

The Most (and Least) Reliable Digital Camera Brands

The last thing you want is to be on a vacation or a wedding and have your camera die on you. But how do you know which cameras are the most reliable? A new study from SquareTrade gives us the answers.
www.techlicious.com www.techlicious.com
Click to expand...
That review says 'Buy Pentax' :ROFLMAO:

We have three brands in the house, Nikon, Pentax and Canon. Fingers crossed no problems so far but my other half (the Canon user) doesn't use her R6 as much as her 5D4.
 
It’s the economics of today whether it’s cars, planes etc. The overriding aim is profit. You build it to a certain standard and accept that a percentage of failures will happen but your profit margin is excellent. They make money from repairs or replacement because there is a high cost of switching brands. The average consumer is now content to accept a shorter product life span as something better is around the corner. Technology now sells cameras not reliability as by that time a replacement model is out. Commercial people have to factor that in as a business expense.
 
I've heard a number of people who've tried to use their R3 in the same manner they used their 1DX and found it lacking in durabiity. If my 1DX2 died tonight, I'd probably put my money into a good used 1DX III rather than making the leap to an R3. There is an R1 due soon I understand and possibly an R3 Mk2 but they will be pricey.

I've dipped into mirrorless with an R7 replacing my 7D2 - but its always been a backup camera to the 1DX2

Do you use your R3 in electronic shutter mode or traditional mode? Have the failures been due to extremes of temeprature or wet weather? Is there a pattern?
 
andrewc said:
Do you use your R3 in electronic shutter mode or traditional mode? Have the failures been due to extremes of temeprature or wet weather? Is there a pattern?
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I've been using it in both modes. The first time the shutter started to fail I switched to electronic shutter and the camera worked fine (but obvs with still a broken shutter, so only worked in electronic shutter mode).

Second time the shutter failed, the shutter blades seperated from each other with one of them hanging down infront of the sensor.

No extreme temperature changes. My cameras are used indoors 99% of the time, stored at home in normal indoor temperatures, no exposure to wet weather at all. They get a fair amount of usage but not bashed about or anything, always stored in a padded Manfrotto photo bag. Never dropped any of them either.
 
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That's bad

Do you use mechanical in highest FPS mode a lot?

Personally I would not even think about touching mechanic on camera like r3 and that's before your post.
I don't see any real benefits only negatives.

On r6 that obviously doesn't work with flash, doesn't work for panning, and limits bitrate so you have to use it some, but I almost religiously avoid anything over 3fps and instead always go full electronic
Let's hope that will save my bacon. They crashed in price so much it's pointless to be selling it and upgrading to similar model
 
Another possible point of failure is ibis. I looked at camera disassembly images and across the boar every manufacturer had some really weak points there.
With ibis rocking around for as long as camera is active anything can happen
I tend to restrict it to shooting only and that has other side effects as it needs a good half a second to really stabilise.

So who knows maybe it can loosen or knock shutter out eventually.

That's why it really has to be Nikon z9 approach to completely remove mechanical
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Do you use mechanical in highest FPS mode a lot?
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Nope, almost never. I don't think i've ever shot in the top speed FPS mode. It's always on the one up from single shot. Very occasionally i'll go one step higher to the faster mode but never top speed.

LongLensPhotography said:
Another possible point of failure is ibis. I looked at camera disassembly images and across the boar every manufacturer had some really weak points there.
With ibis rocking around for as long as camera is active anything can happen
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Yeah maybe. Since the sensor isn't fixed in the body maybe moving the camera around damages it. But I had IBIS in my Sony bodies and never had an issue with them.
 
Interestingly, Canon was one of the top brands for reliability, in the days of the "metal monsters".

Cameras like the FT-QL and the original F1 were right up there with the Nikon F in the toughness stakes and the lenses were excellent. Even the "budget" models such as the TLb were tough and reliable...

Canon 5D 8612.JPG
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Interestingly, Canon was one of the top brands for reliability, in the days of the "metal monsters".

Cameras like the FT-QL and the original F1 were right up there with the Nikon F in the toughness stakes and the lenses were excellent. Even the "budget" models such as the TLb were tough and reliable...

View attachment 412923
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True. They are built like brick out houses. :p
 
Fwiw my personal anecdote has been very good experience with Canon. 350D, 600D, 70D, 5DM3, 5DM4, 1DXM2, C100, C200, R, and R5. All are/were well used only the 70D needed repair.
 
If we're making lists, over my digital years I've had one each 300d, M5 and R6, and 2 each of 20d, 40d, 7d, 6d.

I've never had any issues though I would say that the R6 doesn't feel as robust as the mirrored bodies.
 
That's an interesting point concerning IBIS. It's something I just hadn't thought about. But I can see how it would happen. As it's a trend to have ever more stops of IBIS it will be interesting to see if it results in more failures.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Another possible point of failure is ibis. I looked at camera disassembly images and across the boar every manufacturer had some really weak points there.
With ibis rocking around for as long as camera is active anything can happen
I tend to restrict it to shooting only and that has other side effects as it needs a good half a second to really stabilise.

So who knows maybe it can loosen or knock shutter out eventually.

That's why it really has to be Nikon z9 approach to completely remove mechanical
Click to expand...
While IBIS is a potential source of failure (and I have heard of it failing on some cameras), Sony has had it on all their A-Mount models (inherited from the Minolta 7D and 5D which also had it 20 years ago), and most of their FF E-Mount models (the first gen A7 / A7R and A7S didn't have it), and it's not something that has been highlighted as an issue, so I suspect the failure rate is quite low.
In theory, the removal of the mirror assembly should improve reliability, and with the Z9 and A9iii removing the mechanical shutter that should further increase reliability, but it's clear that pretty much everything is designed / manufactured with a 'how cheap can we make it' attitude, rather than 'lets add 25% as a safety margin' sort of view.
 
I cant help wonder wether it's a combination of cost cutting and new tech? Theres a tendancy these days to rush out new products to get cash flow in, sadly testing seems to take second place to getting cash in. That can lead to problems. Before the mirrorless digital cameras had been going along more or less the same path, they'd ironed out most of the bugs, and for the most part changes were new sensors and uprated processors. Mirrorless is a whole new ball game, different type shutters, lots of changes, lots of new shiny stuff to break.
 
swanseamale47 said:
I cant help wonder wether it's a combination of cost cutting and new tech? Theres a tendancy these days to rush out new products to get cash flow in, sadly testing seems to take second place to getting cash in. That can lead to problems. Before the mirrorless digital cameras had been going along more or less the same path, they'd ironed out most of the bugs, and for the most part changes were new sensors and uprated processors. Mirrorless is a whole new ball game, different type shutters, lots of changes, lots of new shiny stuff to break.
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Some technology moves very quickly so despite best intentions real world testing is probably shorter than ideal, otherwise the kit will be considered out of date before it hits the shops.
 
swanseamale47 said:
I cant help wonder wether it's a combination of cost cutting and new tech? Theres a tendancy these days to rush out new products to get cash flow in, sadly testing seems to take second place to getting cash in. That can lead to problems. Before the mirrorless digital cameras had been going along more or less the same path, they'd ironed out most of the bugs, and for the most part changes were new sensors and uprated processors. Mirrorless is a whole new ball game, different type shutters, lots of changes, lots of new shiny stuff to break.
Click to expand...

I'm speculating, but there is probably some truth in that. If it was built to be robust in the first place it might negate a lot of the issues. But in many cases they seem to add to existing technology. It might catch up later, who knows.
 
Faldrax said:
While IBIS is a potential source of failure (and I have heard of it failing on some cameras), Sony has had it on all their A-Mount models (inherited from the Minolta 7D and 5D which also had it 20 years ago), and most of their FF E-Mount models (the first gen A7 / A7R and A7S didn't have it), and it's not something that has been highlighted as an issue, so I suspect the failure rate is quite low.
In theory, the removal of the mirror assembly should improve reliability, and with the Z9 and A9iii removing the mechanical shutter that should further increase reliability, but it's clear that pretty much everything is designed / manufactured with a 'how cheap can we make it' attitude, rather than 'lets add 25% as a safety margin' sort of view.
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Hopefully it doesn't happen that much particularly with careful use. A lot of people may not actually notice it or blame the lens for the effect.
However if they do chances are it goes on eBay and goes round and round.

I'm very much looking forward to losing the shutter in the next upgrade. They still use sensor guard which is near enough the same thing though just nowhere near stressed as much.

The biggest point of failure going forward may be related to PCB burnouts due to heat stress, etc. I doesn't help that for example canon tries to cram in as much as possible in the tiniest body leading to controversy like the R5 videogate. So I made the conclusion if I ever bought one it would be from panamoz with 3 year warranty and sold a day before it runs out. Well I still haven't committed and I'm not sure if I will because for the price I also don't like AA filters, and 4k60 is not that great even Vs r6, etc and z8 is actually not that much more expensive in a bigger body with better features
 
I’ve never had a Canon camera fail or break, over the years but what I call heavy use, a shutter count of 60 to 70K is nothing like the OP has and I too would be disappointed if I had the same experience
as for my R5 though, I do think it’s an amazing camera but I have had some issues with the camera locking up, I have to remove the battery to clear it and it has improved recently since the later firmware updates , at one time it would happen fairly regularly now it’s very occasionally
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Hopefully it doesn't happen that much particularly with careful use. A lot of people may not actually notice it or blame the lens for the effect.
However if they do chances are it goes on eBay and goes round and round.

I'm very much looking forward to losing the shutter in the next upgrade. They still use sensor guard which is near enough the same thing though just nowhere near stressed as much.

The biggest point of failure going forward may be related to PCB burnouts due to heat stress, etc. I doesn't help that for example canon tries to cram in as much as possible in the tiniest body leading to controversy like the R5 videogate. So I made the conclusion if I ever bought one it would be from panamoz with 3 year warranty and sold a day before it runs out. Well I still haven't committed and I'm not sure if I will because for the price I also don't like AA filters, and 4k60 is not that great even Vs r6, etc and z8 is actually not that much more expensive in a bigger body with better features
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I agree, loosing the shutter is a nice step forward, and the sensor curtain can be made much more robust than a shutter, as it doesn't need to be the fine precision double curtain, and can be much slower (if it took 1/10s to close no-one would care).
The other area that we will see failing are the many buttons and dials - cameras seem to be getting more and more of them, and you can be sure manufacturers will opt for the $0.1 version instead of the $0.3 version due to the huge savings....
 
LCPete said:
I’ve never had a Canon camera fail or break, over the years but what I call heavy use, a shutter count of 60 to 70K is nothing like the OP has and I too would be disappointed if I had the same experience
as for my R5 though, I do think it’s an amazing camera but I have had some issues with the camera locking up, I have to remove the battery to clear it and it has improved recently since the later firmware updates , at one time it would happen fairly regularly now it’s very occasionally
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That's what I meant by saying I would sell it before 3 year warranty is up. These are not good signs if you are no longer covered. It may be software related or may be not.
My r6 never locked up but I used it less than that


Faldrax said:
The other area that we will see failing are the many buttons and dials - cameras seem to be getting more and more of them, and you can be sure manufacturers will opt for the $0.1 version instead of the $0.3 version due to the huge savings....
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Nothing new here. I had to get 5ds repaired under warranty for faulty hotshoe from new
At least these are easier and cheaper to replace if you find reasonable independent service or are not afraid to diy
 
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