Wow. good for you.
I used to take time and read your posts but following this thread with your pedantic behaviour, ignorance and downright arrogance has made me change my opinions of you both.
I'm explaining that if you learn how stuff works, instead of just doing what you're told, or doing what you see demonstrated, you'll learn more, learn faster and remember it easier and for longer. These are facts. If you choose not to accept that someone who learns this way will be able to shoot anything, and be fully in control of their equipment, and ultimately be a much better photographer then that's up to you, but I'm afraid it's true. A good photographer who learned properly could shoot anything he/she is asked to shoot with equal facility. They wouldn't need to ask how to shoot something different because it's all photography. I'm trying to reassure people that worrying about seeing the EXIF on a shot you want to know how to create is not the end of the world. Try asking the photographer who took the image instead of moaning about the fact that they've not included metadata.
I didnt "like" the post in direct relation to any particular person or post. I was imagining a relative newb photographer (e.g me!) or someone just stumbling across the thread being put off the site by the way the thread had gone and the tone of some of the posts.
You mean people telling them that looking at EXIF is useless, and that it's far better to learn by practice and experimentation once they understand the basics? How do you know they'd not actually prefer that? I know my students do. If I was told when I was learning (which I actually was) that a good photographer could shoot anything they needed to, and a bad one could only shoot what they're used to, I'd have found that inspirational actually.
I dont want to spend time going out and buying a book, or waiting for explanations from people. I want to know the answer 'now', and will be able get that information by looking at a youtube video.
This is the nature of society today, and its not a bad thing in my opinion. Information when you want it! If looking at someones exif even gives you a smallest clue of how something has been done, then it is not useless.
Who said asking for help is wrong? One of the thing's I've been advising is asking the photographer instead of snooping in their metadata.
The difference is that you want to know how to retouch something in a certain way, so you go to You Tube and look at a tutorial, and just copy what you see. There will be loads in there you may not get, as they were intended for an earlier lesson. It may include layer masks for instance, and you've never used those, so you skip that part and just wind on to the bit where you actually do the retouching... just because you want a fast result. Your education is incomplete.
I have nothing against information when you want it. Phone numbers, facts, data... but learning has no shortcuts I'm afraid. It just doesn't
The fact is, photographers these days, technically, are not as good as they used to be. People can't be arsed learning.. takes too much time. There's a "That'll do" attitude.
It seems that we have a volatile (and at times vitriolic) mix here of experts, "experts", and than those looking to learn.
Pretty much each and every time a non-expert asks a valid question, the experts and the "experts" arrive to 'do battle', things get heated, and the original question is lost.
Seems to me it's the ones that want to learn who are doing the arguing. These days, even those asking for help will start arguing with you if you don't tell them what they want to hear.
Looking at metadata is not big deal. There are MUCH better ways to learn... MUCH better. But hey... what do I know huh?
Photography is a process of continuous learning, and if it wasn't it could easily become boring, as there would be no challenge.
Chellenges like looking at metadata to copy what others do? Wow.. hard core.
Being a professional does not mean that you know ALL the answers. Although retired, I was a Senior Technical Manager, Consultant Engineer in Electromagnetic Compatibility, but I was still learning new things until the day I retired, as technology and techniques continue to evolve.
Of course not, and I still learn things every single day. I knew my post would bring out the insecurities left right and centre. I'm saying I could shoot anything asked of me, and I'd do a damned good job of it. Not because I'm superhuman, but because I'm a photographer. Just as you'd expect a plumber to be able to fix whatever plumbing needs you have, I expect a photographer to be able to cope with whatever is asked of them. If a plumber said, "Sorry luv... can't do that. I'm a shower plumber... what you need is a toilet plumber" you'd be appalled that such a person could call themselves a professional plumber. It's the same thing. A decent professional photographer could shoot whatever you asked them to shoot... no problem.
Many photographers are very set in their ways, and get very uptight when someone suggests something that they disagree with, and can come across as "I'm an expert, so I must be right". They may of course be right, but their 'Holier-than- thou' manner does them no credit, and just serves to antagonize.
Stop trying to analyse me.. won't work
I'm trying to get people to see that the ways in which they are learning suck!
I have been an amateur photographer for over 50 years, but do I know all the answers?. Certainly not, as I am still learning new things, which is what holds my interest.
Well... technically, there's not much left for me to learn, and this is why I just have a calm acceptance that I've learned as much as I'll ever learn technically. If that makes me arrogant, then tough titties, because it's true. Only when new stuff comes around do I get a chance to learn something new technically. There's a whole other world of photography that's far more engaging than techy stuff though... but my point is, if learning for you is part of the attraction, why are you so against the the advice Phil and I are giving, which is essentially, proper, old fashioned learning of skills through study, practice and experimentation?
I genuinely feel you are objecting because you don't like me. Which is a little childish isn't it? Well.. you know what? Many of my students don't like me either, but I'm not there to be liked. I'm their to teach them. I've lost count of the conversations at graduation along the lines of "You were a total bast**d sometimes, but thank you, I needed the kick up the arse", and many of these are now friends I remain in touch with. I'm not a nasty person, but I don't arse about. They've got 3 years to learn a **** load of stuff. I just get stuff done.
I have a good collection of fairly 'high end' kit, that probably exceeds my ability to get the best from it, but does that make me a better photographer. Of course it doesn't.
I don't even know why you needed to say that. Of course not.
I think I've gone as far as I can in this thread. Those that think metadata is the way to go will still copy what others do parrot fashion and think they're learning. Stupid is as stupid does an' all that.
Over and out.
