Why you should or shouldn’t use ND graduated filters

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Julian Elliott

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Why you should or shouldn’t use ND graduated filters.

OK, so is there really a right or wrong answer? It’s a question that photographers debate and in this week’s vlog I try to give you some of the reasons why you should or shouldn’t use them.

Personally, I'm going to say I still do from time to time. It very much depends on what I'm trying to achieve. You'll see where it's mentioned in the vlog. Aside from, should we still be using ND grads? I suspect it will cause discussion which is always good.

 
Always an active discussion :ROFLMAO:

On digital, no I don't use graduated filters anymore. I do sometimes carry a 2 stop grad though if I have the film camera with me. I used to use them a lot, even had Lee filters back when I shot Canon so..... pre 2014/5. I think with the advance of dynamic range and camera tech plus today's editing programs there's certainly less need for them I think. I do understand though people who do want to use them.

I do use other filters though very often.
 
LeeRatters said:
Always an active discussion :ROFLMAO:

On digital, no I don't use graduated filters anymore. I do sometimes carry a 2 stop grad though if I have the film camera with me. I used to use them a lot, even had Lee filters back when I shot Canon so..... pre 2014/5. I think with the advance of dynamic range and camera tech plus today's editing programs there's certainly less need for them I think. I do understand though people who do want to use them.

I do use other filters though very often.
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What I find interesting @LeeRatters is that on my travels I see a lot of photographers. A lot of people who do go on about a particular brand's sensor yet they still seem wedded to their grads. That always tickles me ;)
 
Like Lee @LeeRatters I use them with film as required but with my digital stuff I tend to have 2 approaches;

1. On a tripod with landscapes I'll use them just to reduce the amount of PP required later
2. Handheld on a photowalk etc I'll do the PP later

As I already have them I would not be without them but if I only shot digital and didn't already have them I wouldn't buy them.
 
Topsy said:
Like Lee @LeeRatters I use them with film as required but with my digital stuff I tend to have 2 approaches;

1. On a tripod with landscapes I'll use them just to reduce the amount of PP required later
2. Handheld on a photowalk etc I'll do the PP later

As I already have them I would not be without them but if I only shot digital and didn't already have them I wouldn't buy them.
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Have to agree. I still have mine from Wayback when. But admit I don’t carry them much unless I’m doing a job where I know I’ll need them.
 
For landscape, I usually do use filters. In general, I like to get as close to the final result as possible in-camera. If there is stuff moving in the wind it's much less headache in the end than blending.
 
Julian Elliott said:
Why you should or shouldn’t use ND graduated filters.

OK, so is there really a right or wrong answer? It’s a question that photographers debate and in this week’s vlog I try to give you some of the reasons why you should or shouldn’t use them.

Personally, I'm going to say I still do from time to time. It very much depends on what I'm trying to achieve. You'll see where it's mentioned in the vlog. Aside from, should we still be using ND grads? I suspect it will cause discussion which is always good.

Click to expand...
"Should" or "Shouldn't" sounds rather pretentious, as if you are pretending to be qualified to say what someone ought or ought not do. Anyone capable of thinking for themselves will use whatever tools deemed necessary to achieve the desired results.
 
Well worth a watch. I thought it was a balanced video from Julian and pointed out the advantages / disadvantages of using or not using ND grads without being biased
 
Of course if you listen to Stuart Low of SLPOTY there is no need to use filters, not just because it can be done in processing but it leaves a trace that can't be remove in post. He has proof you know but he just chooses not to share it Nothing to do with the fact that he lost his Filter sponsor, that's just what cynics say!
 
Winslowe said:
Anyone capable of thinking for themselves will use whatever tools deemed necessary to achieve the desired results.
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I agree.

Perhaps retitling this "When and why I use ND graduated filters and when and why I choose not to" would be more accurate and less contentious?
 
taxboy said:
But the title got you sufficiently interested so from a YouTube perspective I'd say it worked
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This is true, up to a point - I didn't bother after the first few seconds... :tumbleweed:
 
Winslowe said:
"Should" or "Shouldn't" sounds rather pretentious, as if you are pretending to be qualified to say what someone ought or ought not do. Anyone capable of thinking for themselves will use whatever tools deemed necessary to achieve the desired results.
Click to expand...

Did you watch the video? Hopefully it doesn't come across as being pretentious and more about debate. If you watch and notice how I phrase the words in the beginning it gives a clue as to my own thoughts :)
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I agree.

Perhaps retitling this "When and why I use ND graduated filters and when and why I choose not to" would be more accurate and less contentious?
Click to expand...

Actually, you're close to an alternative title that I had thought about. But I left it as is because it's always good to spark debate :)
 
taxboy said:
Well worth a watch. I thought it was a balanced video from Julian and pointed out the advantages / disadvantages of using or not using ND grads without being biased
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Thanks for that! You're exactly on the nail with my intentions. That there are both advantages and disadvantages of each method. Who is right to use or not to use grads? Um...?
 
Julian Elliott said:
Did you watch the video? Hopefully it doesn't come across as being pretentious and more about debate. If you watch and notice how I phrase the words in the beginning it gives a clue as to my own thoughts :)
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No, Julian, I didn't watch, which is why I quoted, and only commented on, the words in the title. I'll have to hook up a speaker and give it a look-see.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Perhaps retitling this "When and why I use ND graduated filters and when and why I choose not to" would be more accurate and less contentious?
Click to expand...
Yes, that most likely would have prompted a more favorable response.
 
Winslowe said:
Yes, that most likely would have prompted a more favorable response.
Click to expand...

One issue comes when you have an uneven reason with trees in it that are above the line of said horizon.

You could use a grad which would then darken the trees down. Or you could blend and run the risk of seeing ghosting with any movement in the trees.

Which is the lesser of two evils?

It's why I titled it as I did. Should I or shouldn't I? Which is the lesser of two evils?
 
With sensors these days that have big DR (especially the GFX sensors) it's possible to just use shadows and highlights in LR to balance the shot, of course way more difficult with film. I only have the older LR and PS elements so exposure blending isn't an option for me. In LR I'll often use the grad sliders top down and bottom up to balance highlights in skies and shadow detail on the ground I think it works well where a grad filter on the lens may give dark elements on the horizon that aren't skies. Recently I overdid a grad filter on the ground so my repair was to use the bottom up grad in LR to re-balance the exposure as described. It worked fine.
 
Julian Elliott said:
One issue comes when you have an uneven reason with trees in it that are above the line of said horizon.
You could use a grad which would then darken the trees down. Or you could blend and run the risk of seeing ghosting with any movement in the trees.
Which is the lesser of two evils?
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As a predominately film user I have a passel of filters, and a GND has to be the least useful of them all.
 
Julian Elliott said:
One issue comes when you have an uneven reason with trees in it that are above the line of said horizon.

You could use a grad which would then darken the trees down. Or you could blend and run the risk of seeing ghosting with any movement in the trees.

Which is the lesser of two evils?

It's why I titled it as I did. Should I or shouldn't I? Which is the lesser of two evils?
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This is example I had in mind above. I’ve always had ghosting with blends in that type of situation so prefer GND as I find it less work in post.
 
TimHughes said:
This is example I had in mind above. I’ve always had ghosting with blends in that type of situation so prefer GND as I find it less work in post.
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Most blending software incorporates de-ghosting which is generally very effective. I did watch the video but it failed to mention the effects of flare and the circumstances where it may occur. Being able to easily select sky and select subject in LR now really helps with software dynamic range management. Of course this issue is now much reduced as many cameras now have much higher dynamic ranges than in the past.

Dave
 
Dave Canon said:
Most blending software incorporates de-ghosting which is generally very effective. I did watch the video but it failed to mention the effects of flare and the circumstances where it may occur. Being able to easily select sky and select subject in LR now really helps with software dynamic range management. Of course this issue is now much reduced as many cameras now have much higher dynamic ranges than in the past.

Dave
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Thanks Dave, I’ll give it another try. Which blending software are you using?
 
Dave Canon said:
Most blending software incorporates de-ghosting which is generally very effective. I did watch the video but it failed to mention the effects of flare and the circumstances where it may occur. Being able to easily select sky and select subject in LR now really helps with software dynamic range management. Of course this issue is now much reduced as many cameras now have much higher dynamic ranges than in the past.

Dave
Click to expand...

There are of course other things that come up with grads but I presented the most obvious ones.

Lightroom does have the ability to de-ghost but it's not always perfect.
 
TimHughes said:
Thanks Dave, I’ll give it another try. Which blending software are you using?
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I rarely need to blend images now because of the increased camera dynamic range but, when I do, I normally use Lightroom Classic. In the past I used to use Oloneo which could also de-Ghost. Generally, de-ghosting works by identifying part of the images where movement has occurred and to choose just one of the images for that area rather than blend several. I think it normally choses the standard exposure. For example I recently took some shots in Salisbury Cathedral which is a good example of a complex high dynamic range scene which benefits from an HDR approach. On a few shots, figures in the background were moving and LR identified these and fixed the de-Ghosting.

Dave
 
Topsy said:
With sensors these days that have big DR (especially the GFX sensors) it's possible to just use shadows and highlights in LR to balance the shot, of course way more difficult with film. I only have the older LR and PS elements so exposure blending isn't an option for me. In LR I'll often use the grad sliders top down and bottom up to balance highlights in skies and shadow detail on the ground I think it works well where a grad filter on the lens may give dark elements on the horizon that aren't skies. Recently I overdid a grad filter on the ground so my repair was to use the bottom up grad in LR to re-balance the exposure as described. It worked fine.
Click to expand...
Not everybody has a new camera with 14 stops of dynamic range.
 
TimHughes said:
This is example I had in mind above. I’ve always had ghosting with blends in that type of situation so prefer GND as I find it less work in post.
Click to expand...
Agreed, in this scenario, I still prefer using grads. It's pretty easy to use a grad filter with a luminosity mask in LR or PS to balance out the darker tree / branches.
 
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Julian Elliott said:
How come? What film are you using?

I remember using Velvia and the latitude isn't a lot at all.
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I've mostly shot slide film all my life, so am used to the narrow exposure latitude. I tend to avoid flat, featureless horizons, and prefer overcast days for most landscapes.
 
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