wide angle for a 7d (1.6x crop sensor)

Gary

Gary

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i kept my sigma wide angle after my 1d got stolen and have been using it on my 40d, but its only really wide on the 1d. I kept it because i planned to get another 1d one day.
but I've given up on that idea now i've bought a 7d.
So, the sigma isnt wide enough now and i need to sell it and get something thats wide on the 7d. But i'm a little confused and cant remember if very wide angles give you a black edge on a 40d/7d, or a 1d sensor.

Any recommendations?
 
What focal length is the Sigma? We can't really judge what "isn't wide enough" without knowing that first.
 
2Thumbs said:
What focal length is the Sigma? We can't really judge what "isn't wide enough" without knowing that first.
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Good question. But you won't get any vignetting (black edges) either way. That only happens if you go the other way and fit a lens designed specifically for crop format on to a larger sensor body.

Lots of choice. Budget?
 
Well I'll stick my 2 pence worth in early anyway:

Tokina 11-16mm F/2.8.

I own one, in fact it's sitting in front of me as I type this. It's truly a fantastic lens and lives up to all the hype it gets IMO.
 
I'm assuming the Sigma will be either the 12-24 or the 10-20. Any reason why you're not going back to the 1D or the other option would be the 5DmkII? Although money concerns are abound these days, so that'll probably be it. The crop sensor can be very limiting on wide angles, as I discovered for this weeks photo52!

I've seen a few people mention the Tokina recently, but I've never used that. The canon 14mm lens is apparently decent, but I've recently seen a few people complaining about some issues with it.

I'm not really much help I'm afraid!
 
Bluesmachine said:
I'm assuming the Sigma will be either the 12-24 or the 10-20. Any reason why you're not going back to the 1D or the other option would be the 5DmkII? Although money concerns are abound these days, so that'll probably be it. The crop sensor can be very limiting on wide angles, as I discovered for this weeks photo52!

I've seen a few people mention the Tokina recently, but I've never used that. The canon 14mm lens is apparently decent, but I've recently seen a few people complaining about some issues with it.

I'm not really much help I'm afraid!
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Why? 10mm (16mm equivalent) is very wide, and the Canon 10-22 (amongst others) is as sharp as it gets.
 
Gary said:
But i'm a little confused and cant remember if very wide angles give you a black edge on a 40d/7d, or a 1d sensor.
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A wide lens such as the Canon EF-S 10-22 if wide open will give you vignetting on a 40D. It may also give it on the 7D (haven't used my 10-22 on my 7D!) but the 7D is able to remove it in camera.
 
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I'm going to guess that you were using either the 15-30mm or 17-35mm on the 1D which almost directly correlates to the 10-20mm/10-22mm on a 1.6 crop.

The 10-20mm is a DC and the 10-22mm is an EF-S, so they will both vignette quite badly on a 1D body, but be fine on a 7D. You wouldn't be able to physically use an EF-S on a 1D, but you could use a DC lens allowing for the loss of the edges.

FWIW I've got the 10-20mm variable version which gives good pictures on the 7D, but I haven't used the 10-22mm so can't compare the two.
 
Jackwow said:
A wide lens such as the Canon EF-S if wide open will give you vignetting on a 40D. It may also give it on the 7D (haven't used my 10-22 on my 7D!) but the 7D is able to remove it in camera.
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II have this combo... Lovely.....

I am still leaning to use it so not the best images....

Natural History Museum London

Breakwater near the Seven Sisters

The Seven Sisters



a quickr pickr post
 
Jackwow said:
A wide lens such as the Canon EF-S if wide open will give you vignetting on a 40D. It may also give it on the 7D (haven't used my 10-22 on my 7D!) but the 7D is able to remove it in camera.
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I'm not sure where you've seen that info but it doesn't, unless you apply a custom ratio in camera which seems a bit daft.

The EF-S's are specifically designed not to vignette on crop sensors, and what little they can produce is easily rectifiable in PP. The sort of vignetting that Gary is talking about is pure black, not a slight shading.
 
HoppyUK said:
Why? 10mm (16mm equivalent) is very wide, and the Canon 10-22 (amongst others) is as sharp as it gets.
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Indeed. I cant think of anything wider on a crop unless you want to go for a fish-eye!!
 
Jackwow said:
A wide lens such as the Canon EF-S if wide open will give you vignetting on a 40D. It may also give it on the 7D (haven't used my 10-22 on my 7D!) but the 7D is able to remove it in camera.
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I dont get any noticeable vignetting on my 10-22 wide open.
 
if I was to buy an UWA for a canon crop I'd either get the efs 10-22 or the tokina 11-16 f2.8
 
I had a Tamron 10-24 for about 6 months until it was "liberated" from my possession.

Now have a Canon 10-22, couldn't fault the Tamron apart from its tendency to hunt in low light. The 10-22 takes the biscuit with the USM and generally better sharpness.
 
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The 10-22 was in the running when I was looking at UWA's. But I didn't need such a long focal range and the ability to hand hold in practically zero light is a big plus for me!
 
HoppyUK said:
Good question. But you won't get any vignetting (black edges) either way. That only happens if you go the other way and fit a lens designed specifically for crop format on to a larger sensor body.
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thanks for refreshing my memory :)
i knew i'd had the problem before, but you are right (and have partly answered my badly written question). I had an EF-S Lens before and put it on the 1d (when i upgraded from 30d) and it was that that gave me a huge black border where it wasnt covering the whole of the sensor.. makes sense now

in which case i guess i just simply need a wider angle than what i have now.
my current is 12-24, so is there a special wide angle lens for 1.6x that will give me a wider angle? because the 12 just isnt wide enough and obv not as wide as it is on a fuller frame. Or will the 10mm-x give me a significantly wider angle.
 
Gary said:
thanks for refreshing my memory :)
i knew i'd had the problem before, but you are right (and have partly answered my badly written question). I had an EF-S Lens before and put it on the 1d (when i upgraded from 30d) and it was that that gave me a huge black border where it wasnt covering the whole of the sensor.. makes sense now

in which case i guess i just simply need a wider angle than what i have now.
my current is 12-24, so is there a special wide angle lens for 1.6x that will give me a wider angle? because the 12 just isnt wide enough and obv not as wide as it is on a fuller frame. Or will the 10mm-x give me a significantly wider angle.
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Blimey.....

The 10mm is wider obviously but I don't think by a massive amount... I am not sure i would ever think I would need anything wider?

I think this is as wide as it gets..
here
Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 DC HSM
 
Jackwow said:
A wide lens such as the Canon EF-S if wide open will give you vignetting on a 40D.
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No it won't. That is completely and utterly brimming over with wrongability.


Jackwow said:
It may also give it on the 7D (haven't used my 10-22 on my 7D!) but the 7D is able to remove it in camera.
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Wow! I thought the first sentence was the wrongest thing I'd read on the Interwebs today. But this bile of pants has just beat it.
 
odd jim said:
I dont get any.
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I used to own that lens and I did.

Googling should point you to some reviews where you may find comments about vignetting or at least see some figures whch you can compare against other lenses.
 
woof woof said:
I used to own that lens and I did.

Googling should point you to some reviews where you may find comments about vignetting or at least see some figures whch you can compare against other lenses.
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We've had this debate before, you and I! ;)

I did Google it after you prompted me, I think in that thread I proved there were more reviews stating the opposite?

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=273723

...but lets not start that again!
 
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odd Jim - "We've had this debate before, you and I!"

Well as I've actually owned the lens and now have a (different make) replacement I think that I'm in rather a strong position to comment on the performance of the two.

I can of course post exemples from the Canon lens which clearly show vignetting. If yours doesn't then I can only assume that there's sample variation and / or poor QC at Canon, but there's no doubt at all that mine had significant vignetting.
 
woof woof said:
odd Jim - "We've had this debate before, you and I!"

Well as I've actually owned the lens and now have a (different make) replacement I think that I'm in rather a strong position to comment on the performance of the two.

I can of course post exemples from the Canon lens which clearly show vignetting. If yours doesn't then I can only assume that there's sample variation and / or poor QC at Canon, but there's no doubt at all that mine had significant vignetting.
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I know, as I've said, we bored everyone to death with that, and I do respect the fact you've owned both. But I think you were unlucky.

The thing I will say though, is I'd be prepared to bet that 95% of users didnt suffer vignetting on their 10-22. So far, on here at least, you are the only one who did unless others can chip in?

But the main thing is mine doesnt !
 
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DemiLion said:
I'm not sure where you've seen that info but it doesn't, unless you apply a custom ratio in camera which seems a bit daft.

The EF-S's are specifically designed not to vignette on crop sensors, and what little they can produce is easily rectifiable in PP. The sort of vignetting that Gary is talking about is pure black, not a slight shading.
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My post should have said EF-S 10-22 not just EF-S and everything I read about it before buying said it would vignette when wide open (obviously on a crop sensor body because that's the only body it will fit on) and it did produce quite noticeable vignetting in the corners at 10mm on my 40D.

Before I bought my EF-S 15-85 I read that it was also prone to some vignetting wide open, however I didn't experience this. Then someone advised me that vignetting correction was probably switched on on my 7D, which turned out to be correct.

I'm sure Canon tries to reduce as much as possible any vignetting but to suggest that an EF-S lens won't vignette is just wrong.

PS DemiLion if you were saying that the 7D doesn't have vignetting correction in camera then you are mistaken. It's a menu option.
 
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Why would you use a wild angle wide open? Mine is typically used at F8 and beyond...
 
POAH said:
why would you not, would you only use a fast prime wide open?
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Because you are typically using a wide angle for landscape where a large DOF is desirable hence stopping down to F8 and beyond..

This is very different to a portrait or wildlife shot where you are trying to isolate your subject.....
 
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