wifes car - brake problems?

Lynton

Lynton

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Lynton (yes really!)
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Hello,

I know there's a quite a few on here in the automotive industry, so just wanted to ask a quick question before her car goes to the Mechanic on Monday.

She has a 4 plate 1.9 Diesel Megane. At the moment, when braking approaching a roundabout or so i.e. from a pretty decentish speed to standstill or near standstill the steering wheel judders like anything (similar feeling to if you have unbalanced tyres and it will judder at a given speed sort of feeling.)

The car does not attempt to pull in any one direction when this happens, not does the wheel judder during driving.

It had new discs and pads at last MOT (Sep) and has covered about 8000 miles since then.

It started suddenly and has only been happening last 3 or 4 days.

Any ideas?
 
Loose wheel(s)? Loose suspension, wheel bearing(s).
 
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I had exactly the same problem with a Mitsubishi Shogun with only about 6k on the clock. The problem was down to warped disks which the main dealer was able to skin to correct the problem. Apparently discs that have been stored on edge rather than flat before being put on a vehicle are prone to warping.
 
warped disc's would be my guess- would imagine you'd find that the discswerent replaced previously at the same time as the pads.... if the discs werent changed the new pads fitted would be obliterated in record time due to the discs...... 8k isnt much for pads....

however if the motors auto they eat pads alive so 8k is far from uncommon.... you'd get the scouring noises and then the grinds and the the wobbles......
 
I'm plumming for warped discs too. There are alot of cheap discs from China flooding the market which just aren't upto the job, some of these discs are sold as copies of reputable brands. Best place for reputable discs at a good price is Nextday Brakes who sell Brembo discs, many people reckon they work better than OEM discs.
 
motor factors are the ones that sell to places like quik-fit and small garages etc.... very few garages use dealer oem parts due to cost....

i'd go for proper discs and then pagid pads...... alternatively go somewhere like quik-fit- yes they will chargeand no doubt put some non oem parts on your motor, but you get free replacements for as long as you own the vehicle so you'l only pay once.... irrespective of how many times you frequent the place.....
 
Presumably you haven't just felt the ABS kicking in for the first time?

Disc run out is the most likely single reason but on an 8 year old Megane with a relatively heavy diesel front end and big fat wheels and tyres, it could also be the bottom wishbone bushes worn.

Who fitted the discs and pads and at which end?

BTW Renault/Motrio pads are quite possibly as cheap as any of the pattern parts.
 
Thanks all again for your words of wisdom..... I was leaning towards it being a brakes issue as opposed to wheel bearing / suspension etc given the juddering only felt during braking. (But what do I know?)

Yves G - yes 100% certain not ABS.

Pretty sure it had front discs and pads last Service / MOT which would have been September time. Fitted by mechanic who is a family friend and been looking after my cars for about 20 yrs (and hers 10 yrs)
 
Lynton said:
Thanks all again for your words of wisdom..... I was leaning towards it being a brakes issue as opposed to wheel bearing / suspension etc given the juddering only felt during braking. (But what do I know?)

Yves G - yes 100% certain not ABS.

Pretty sure it had front discs and pads last Service / MOT which would have been September time. Fitted by mechanic who is a family friend and been looking after my cars for about 20 yrs (and hers 10 yrs)
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He may well have been duped into buying counterfeit discs. As I say they are everywhere.
 
Without a doubt, nasty cheap discs.

Ask the guy who fitted them [I dare you]

same old story friend does it, so has to be cheap,
but makes up the cheap labour by using the cheapest bits!

Cynical, me..........yep.
50 bloody years in the motor trade has made me that way!
 
pollie said:
Ask the guy who fitted them [I dare you]
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I have no problems in asking that at all - and i am pretty sure I will get an honest answer from him. He is a one man band originally specialising in Fiats. (Him and another colleague set up together when fiat dealership went under.) Now I am guessing none OEM parts from Renault. Would have thought he sourced from somewhere such as German Swedish & French, or Europarts or similar..... as to where they get them from, who knows.
 
On my old car I had the pads changed and the garage said one of the brake calipers was getting a bit corroded and sticking. They freed it but a couple of months later it seemed to pull slightly sometimes after braking. One disc was getting hotter than the other so I had a new caliper fitted. Luckily it didn't get hot enough to warp the disc but it might be similar to your problem.
 
Lynton said:
I have no problems in asking that at all - and i am pretty sure I will get an honest answer from him. He is a one man band originally specialising in Fiats. (Him and another colleague set up together when fiat dealership went under.) Now I am guessing none OEM parts from Renault. Would have thought he sourced from somewhere such as German Swedish & French, or Europarts or similar..... as to where they get them from, who knows.
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If he's honest then I think you will get a positive response if you take the car back to him and explain what's happeneing. He should offer to re-skim the discs or replace them.
 
it doesnt sound like the guy that fitted the pads and discs last time is fraudulantly conning you..... ive been in the motor trade for best part 15 years..... have worked in dealers and motor factors and garages... small garages are incentivised with big percentage discounts to go down the route of purchasing from motor factors as opposed to dealerships.... most motor factor parts nowadays are oem standard replacements, just by a different brand, and the garage will normally get asked to choose between options of manufacturer.....

was the car an automatic by any chance??? autos chew up pads and if not replaced when due the pads can excessively wear and warp..... could even be the calipers forcing some binding.... either way i wouldnt go there accusing him of anything...

(some brands offer a warranty services (even on wearables such as clutchs and pads and discs- would never happen at a dealers) aswell, where as he can send them discs back to the motor factors, and sign a declaration of mileage.... replacement parts are generally free then- only have to deal with labour, but that shouldnt cost you anything in theory)
 
It's a French car so it's probably just throwing a wobbler. Give it a Gitane and some veal and it might start working again ;) :lol:

Serious though - I had the same on a car that had warped discs, although they weren't new. Really unnerving.
 
tezmed said:
was the car an automatic by any chance??? autos chew up pads and if not replaced when due the pads can excessively wear and warp..... could even be the calipers forcing some binding.... either way i wouldnt go there accusing him of anything...

(some brands offer a warranty services (even on wearables such as clutchs and pads and discs- would never happen at a dealers) aswell, where as he can send them discs back to the motor factors, and sign a declaration of mileage.... replacement parts are generally free then- only have to deal with labour, but that shouldnt cost you anything in theory)
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Certainly not accusing him of anything at all.
It's a 6 speed manual.



specialman said:
It's a French car so it's probably just throwing a wobbler. Give it a Gitane and some veal and it might start working again ;) :lol:
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Hmm, maybe it has detected i am a francophobe.... and is beginning to wave its white flag....
 
Lynton said:
....Hmm, maybe it has detected i am a francophobe.... and is beginning to wave its white flag....
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:lol:

Could be worse - I had a works P-reg Megane that developed a hole in the footwell just where the heel of my accelerator foot went.... made driving fun :)
 
Warped front disks, new set of disk and pads will solve the problem.

Make sure your garage does not replace with cheap disks from Euros, otherwise your be back to square one sooner than you think.
 
Discs are most definitely UNEVEN, but they will not be warped. You try warping cast iron, go on try it!

Depnding on what exact discs and pads are fitted it could be from being sat uneven on the hub or it could be from the pads sticking to the discs and leaving deposits which aren't worn down by normal braking. This can ge tto the stage where it's incredibly obvious to see - after rain you'll notice light rust appear on the dsics, when pad sticking gets bad you'll be able to make out ridges in the disc (not the concentric wear grooves, radial lines), sometimes you can even feel them.

Cheap nasty pads, EBC Greenstuff pads (unless they've now reformulated them yet again) and poor bedding in procedure all help cause this.
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
Discs are most definitely UNEVEN, but they will not be warped. You try warping cast iron, go on try it!
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Millions of people manage to warp discs every year and without trying I might add. Uneven wear and warped discs are two different things.
 
iv'e heard being sat with your foot on the brake after heavy breaking is enough to warp the disks through uneven temperatures caused by the brake pads still in contact with part of the disk
dunno how much truths in it but i suppose it could be possible

cracked disks can give off quite violent vibrations and can be caused by using brake pads designed for stainless disks but fitted with normal steel disks
only seen this happen on bikes though
 
Ex work colleague had a problem with her brakes and said the steering wheel wobbled, she had no idea about cars but that's another story.
Went someone out and had a look and all the wheel nuts were loose enough to remove by hand :eek: tightened up and that cured the problem.
Hubby was not amused, said he had left them lose so it would be easy for her to chage the wheel if she got a puncture :lol::lol:
Trouble is knowing her hubby and his knowledge of cars he probably was telling the truth
 
Gremlin said:
Ex work colleague had a problem with her brakes and said the steering wheel wobbled, she had no idea about cars but that's another story.
Went someone out and had a look and all the wheel nuts were loose enough to remove by hand :eek: tightened up and that cured the problem.
Hubby was not amused, said he had left them lose so it would be easy for her to chage the wheel if she got a puncture :lol::lol:
Trouble is knowing her hubby and his knowledge of cars he probably was telling the truth
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He hadn't just taken out a life insurance policy on her as well had he?:thinking:
 
Be careful in assuming it's warped (not running true to be more accurate) discs or that they are the sole issue. They may be a symptom of another concern elsewhere.

It could be discs themselves and you need to ask the garage to do a brake run out test to determine this (i.e. they measure how much they are warped).

It could be the hubs have worn and are out of true and again its possible to do a hub run out test. New discs on old hubs might bring this to the fore.

It could be as simple as an issue with the wheel nuts and tightening although you would most likely have a vibration at certain constant speeds rather than specifically under braking.

It could be suspension wear e.g. bushes. Is unusual but is know to affect certain vehicles. Could also be wheel bearing, again easily checked for play.

It could also be any combination of the above. Even if the discs are warped it's worth having everything else checked to avoid a return visit in another 8000 miles.
 
I thought it was fairly well established these days that the warped disk was a myth?

Assuming Defiance's checklist is looked at first, it's the uneven transfer of brake pad material to the disk which causes the run out problems and hence the vibration. And this is because the pads were not bedded in properly in the first place.
 
nilagin said:
Millions of people manage to warp discs every year and without trying I might add. Uneven wear and warped discs are two different things.
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No, they don't. The amount an Iron casting can warp is incredibly small. So small as you'd never feel it in a car if it were to happen, and you wouldn't be likely to make it happen without taking a welder to it.

I never mentioned uneven wear
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
No, they don't. The amount an Iron casting can warp is incredibly small. So small as you'd never feel it in a car if it were to happen, and you wouldn't be likely to make it happen without taking a welder to it.

I never mentioned uneven wear
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You've obviously never come across a "green" casting then.
 
Brake rotor run out is actually very common, and it doesn't take much to give a judder under braking. Ford Focus has a maximum run out limit of just 0.015mm and a hub run out of 0.03mm. Heavy braking and rapid cooling are perfect conditions for causing the brake rotor to distort.

Road test the car on a straight but fast road. Brake firmly from approx 50 mph and you'll feel the judder through the wheel or body depending on which end the concern is. Then increase speed again and this time brake with the hand brake* only to a speed below that of where you felt the judder last time.


* don't do this if the car has one of those pox ridden electronic park brakes, or on anything other than a straight road, and most importantly of all...... KEEP YOUR THUMB ON THE LEVER RELEASE BUTTON to prevent the ratchet mechanism from engaging.

If there was no judder this time, the concern is on the front brakes.
 
Does the rear have drums or discs... My van drums are slightly binding causing this effect at the moment.
 
I've got trouble with the brakes on my wifes' car.
They're working perfectly.:D
 
Ragwort said:
I've got trouble with the brakes on my wifes' car.
They're working perfectly.:D
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Love it! Haha
 
I had a brand new car, it only did 800 miles and had the same symptoms. Took it back to the garage and yes the discs had warped. Seems a bad batch of discs was manufactured . This was on a Kia Sorento

Realspeed
 
hmm all will be revealed next Tuesday when it is booked in....
 
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