Work experience

Have you tried the local papers? We used to take quite a few work experience wannabe snappers when I live in that world.
 
Treat it like a job application. Write a letter to the editor explaining why you want to do this, and attach perhaps three varied shots similar to these you've seen in the paper - try to make them look like news shots, rather than pretty sunsets.

And make sure you do a spell-check!

Word of warning: we used to get a lot of applications, so don't bank on getting a slot!

Good luck.
 
jon ryan said:
Treat it like a job application. Write a letter to the editor explaining why you want to do this, and attach perhaps three varied shots similar to these you've seen in the paper - try to make them look like news shots, rather than pretty sunsets.

And make sure you do a spell-check!

Word of warning: we used to get a lot of applications, so don't bank on getting a slot!

Good luck.
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Ah thanks alot, I'll give it a go. Do you suppose it would be worth applying to a a magazine ?
My brother has a wildlife one he gets monthly I could try and ask about that.
 
Try anything you can think of. Quite a few magazines only use freelancers rather than staff snappers, but they will have a picture desk where shots are prepared for publication so worth a go if you're interested in that aspect. Check where they actually produce the mag, though - it could be a long way from you.
 
Yes I've read that about how its cheaper for them to get freelance photographers rather than get full time staff that they have to get equipment for etc.

What effect would there distance have though ? Could I not apply via e-mail, send off some example photos and see how it goes. (and water mark them ?)
 
Don't water mark! No need for this and they'll want to be able to assess your work properly. A watermark will obscure some of the image.

They won't use any of your shots without permission, and if they're good enough for publication, they'll ask. Quite likely they'll want them rendered to a certain file size - usually around 2MB @ 300dpi for a magazine. If you email shots, send smaller files - about 500kb @ 72 dpi is usual for proofs. Massive files take a long time to download, and they will be less likely to spend time waiting for them to open. Attach all your images to the same email, rather than sending separately. No fancy bits, such as boarders or your name of the picture. If you send prints, put your name and address on the back, and send an sae if you want them back.

The distance thing is about practicality. If you get a work experience offer, you'll be spending time if the office. Difficult if it's on the other side of the country.
 
I suppose so, but as a freelance photographer you wouldn't work at an office would you ?
I would assume you go out and get photographs of what they require and then e-mail them.
Ofcourse if I was to become staff photographer I'd have to worry about where offices are.

I know that's not quite work experience in the sense that I am at there headquarters etc.

(If I haven't said so already, thanks for the help.)
 
As an established freelance, you probably wouldn't be in the office much, but for work experience you would be. No publication is likely to take you on for w.e. at a distance. You would be teamed with a staffer for a few days, and spend some time in other departments to see how the different production processes work. They would explain that it's `their` and not `there` headquarters if you got lucky...:p
 
You won't get work experience as a freelance... thats like saying "I want work experience as a self employed plumber".

What you need is something where you can be with someone doing the job...

Try asking the local papers if you can do it with their staff togs (if they still have any!) or work on the picture desk.

Failing that, see if a local studio will take you, but almost certainly both aspects are over subscribed and success will only come if you can demonstrate a keen interest and experience - ie doing A level/NVQ photography.

If you are under 18, good luck getting anyone to take you - I recently tried to get my son a placement in something interesting and whilst they were willing, the age thing stuffs you up...
 
jon ryan said:
As an established freelance, you probably wouldn't be in the office much, but for work experience you would be. No publication is likely to take you on for w.e. at a distance. You would be teamed with a staffer for a few days, and spend some time in other departments to see how the different production processes work. They would explain that it's `their` and not `there` headquarters if you got lucky...:p
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I get nothing but mocked on this blooming site. I do know the difference I just forget when I'm typing sometimes.
Otherwise thanks for the help.
 
BrandonDouglas said:
I get nothing but mocked on this blooming site. I do know the difference I just forget when I'm typing sometimes.
Otherwise thanks for the help.
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Consider it advice! ;)

Think about it you want work experience for a newspaper, albeit, on the pic side of things. Surely spelling, grammar and attention to detail would be a key point in such an industry?:shrug:
 
desantnik said:
You won't get work experience as a freelance... thats like saying "I want work experience as a self employed plumber".

What you need is something where you can be with someone doing the job...

Try asking the local papers if you can do it with their staff togs (if they still have any!) or work on the picture desk.

Failing that, see if a local studio will take you, but almost certainly both aspects are over subscribed and success will only come if you can demonstrate a keen interest and experience - ie doing A level/NVQ photography.

If you are under 18, good luck getting anyone to take you - I recently tried to get my son a placement in something interesting and whilst they were willing, the age thing stuffs you up...
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Yeah I thought that may be a problem. And my school doesn't offer any photography courses, I may have to look into some evening classes so I have some sort of qualification in photography. My plan was to get a degree at uni but nobody seems to think that'll get me anywhere :shrug:
 
Do you read the O's message board? There is a pro sports photographer on there, Norbert Dresstangle, Could want an assistant? I will post on there for you see if he replies.
 
BrandonDouglas said:
Yeah, when I'm working for them and not posting on a forum
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Or you could always strive for perfection and get it right all the time?

Now there's a thought!



I suppose what i am saying is, if you convey the attitude coming through here, in any communications with a pic desk editor / sub editor / editor, when applying for work experience, you won't be getting very far! :shrug:

Use a bit of nous, make some calls yourself. (Plan on what you are going to say beofrehand though, nothing worse then being on the receiving end of "erm, er, erm.....i was just wondering, err")
 
lofcuk said:
No problem, Norbert isn't is real name obv. lol.

Thinking about it, I think he lives in France, but anyway, he may have some contacts.
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Does he have a cousin in the haulage business? Norbert Dentressangle?
 
Originally Posted by BrandonDouglas View Post
I get nothing but mocked on this blooming site. I do know the difference I just forget when I'm typing sometimes.
Otherwise thanks for the help.


Lynton said:
Consider it advice! ;)

Think about it you want work experience for a newspaper, albeit, on the pic side of things. Surely spelling, grammar and attention to detail would be a key point in such an industry?:shrug:
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Damn right!

As a press photographer, you need to be able to write, quickly and accurately. You will be writing captions for your shots, and possibly longer stuff. If you can do that, your chances improve.

On my last paper, when we advertised for a snapper, we got over 150 applications.

These were judged by

1/ Quality of submitted work

2/ Relevant experience

3/ Quality of submitted application

Paper qualifications didn't really enter into it.

Poorly written applications were binned.
 
jon ryan said:
Originally Posted by BrandonDouglas View Post
I get nothing but mocked on this blooming site. I do know the difference I just forget when I'm typing sometimes.
Otherwise thanks for the help.




Damn right!

As a press photographer, you need to be able to write, quickly and accurately. You will be writing captions for your shots, and possibly longer stuff. If you can do that, your chances improve.

On my last paper, when we advertised for a snapper, we got over 150 applications.

These were judged by

1/ Quality of submitted work

2/ Relevant experience

3/ Quality of submitted application

Paper qualifications didn't really enter into it.

Poorly written applications were binned.
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I am very capable of writing a well structured application form, or any other written piece for that matter. All I was saying is, for now, it's not one of my priorities to be spelling everything spot on.
but hey, thanks for the warning.
 
BrandonDouglas said:
I am very capable of writing a well structured application form, or any other written piece for that matter. All I was saying is, for now, it's not one of my priorities to be spelling everything spot on.
but hey, thanks for the warning.
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Maybe you should take the advice of the guys who have experience.

Just a thought, you are posting on a forum that is dedicated to the profession you seem to want to go in to. From time to time people do post on here looking for assistants etc. If you applied for one there is a good chance they may look at your posts to get an idea of your attitude amongst other things, and the impression that is given off in this thread is slightly poor in my opinion, albeit enthusiastic.

No offence intended but just my take on it :thumbs:
 
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Phil789 said:
Maybe you should take the advice of the guys who have experience.

Just a thought, you are posting on a forum that is dedicated to the profession you seem to want to go in to. From time to time people do post on here looking for assistants etc. If you applied for one there is a good chance they make look at your posts to get an idea of your attitude amongst other things, and the impression that is given off in this thread is slightly poor in my opinion, albeit enthusiastic.

No offence intended but just my take on it :thumbs:
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When you put it that way, that justifies being careful of grammar etc.
 
Phil789 said:
Maybe you should take the advice of the guys who have experience.

Just a thought, you are posting on a forum that is dedicated to the profession you seem to want to go in to. From time to time people do post on here looking for assistants etc. If you applied for one there is a good chance they may look at your posts to get an idea of your attitude amongst other things, and the impression that is given off in this thread is slightly poor in my opinion, albeit enthusiastic.

No offence intended but just my take on it :thumbs:
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Exactly, couldn't have worded it better.

Andy
 
realistically, IF someone was to write to a local and request to be considered what would they advise?

would they say ok go to higham fire station and take some pics as they're having an open day and if any of them are good we'll print them or would it be a case of something more/less specific?
 
mani said:
realistically, IF someone was to write to a local and request to be considered what would they advise?

would they say ok go to higham fire station and take some pics as they're having an open day and if any of them are good we'll print them or would it be a case of something more/less specific?
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Personally, I wouldn't know. Sounds about right though =p
 
mani said:
realistically, IF someone was to write to a local and request to be considered what would they advise?

would they say ok go to higham fire station and take some pics as they're having an open day and if any of them are good we'll print them or would it be a case of something more/less specific?
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Realistically, they'd probably say they had all the photographers they needed. We used to get a couple of enquiries most weeks.

But if you have a newsworthy picture, relevant to the paper, they will use it. If there's an open day at the fire station, likelihood is the paper will know about it and have it covered; mostly people running that sort of event will send out a press release. So your first job is to find something they are not covering. Send a few newsy shots to the editor with a nice letter and ask about their policy on unsolicited submissions - how they want the files sent, size and resolution, publication deadlines and so forth. Your shots will need to be more or less copy ready, so you'll need to know Photoshop as well as photography.

To begin with, don't expect to be paid, or only a few pounds per shot. But do insist on a credit. If they like you and your work is good enough, they may start calling you. When that happens, you should get their standard freelance rate - perhaps £20 per shot used on a small paper. This rises when you become established, and could lead to a staff job.

That's basically how I got started.

Bear in mind that there are very, very few rich photographers. A beginner will probably be on £12 -£15,000. An established staffer on a regional title will be on £20 - £30K
 
jon ryan said:
Realistically, they'd probably say they had all the photographers they needed. We used to get a couple of enquiries most weeks.

But if you have a newsworthy picture, relevant to the paper, they will use it. If there's an open day at the fire station, likelihood is the paper will know about it and have it covered; mostly people running that sort of event will send out a press release. So your first job is to find something they are not covering. Send a few newsy shots to the editor with a nice letter and ask about their policy on unsolicited submissions - how they want the files sent, size and resolution, publication deadlines and so forth. Your shots will need to be more or less copy ready, so you'll need to know Photoshop as well as photography.

To begin with, don't expect to be paid, or only a few pounds per shot. But do insist on a credit. If they like you and your work is good enough, they may start calling you. When that happens, you should get their standard freelance rate - perhaps £20 per shot used on a small paper. This rises when you become established, and could lead to a staff job.

That's basically how I got started.

Bear in mind that there are very, very few rich photographers. A beginner will probably be on £12 -£15,000. An established staffer on a regional title will be on £20 - £30K
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Thanks for the advice.

If you don't mind my asking, how much are you currently earning.
 
Do you have a website? Look at doing this to have something to easily refer people to when they want to see samples of your work.

Get out there and be shooting. If you show you are working hard to improve your photography, then it is a plus in a lot of cases.

Well worded emails to relevant local businesses/papers.

The next point may come off as harsh but don't take it that way.

Grow a thicker skin. You have been sensitive to replies on here (not even thinking that the people you are upset at may be the people who can help you most). Be aware that photography is not nice. You need to know that because someone is saying something you don't like that they are not doing it out of malice but as advice. Your attitude I am sorry to say comes off a little childish at times, and that is the last thing anyone wants in an employee.

People in photography generally have little time for letting people down gently. If your work is rubbish, they will tell you, straight away and very bluntly in a lot of cases.

You need to start building a strong portfolio of images. Putting them up for criticism and being prepared for things you don't want to hear.

It sounds harsh, but it is a harsh reality of the photo world.
 
Enough! Not rich, not hurting. Nice house, nice holidays (and I usually come back with some saleable shots).
 
ding76uk said:
Do you have a website? Look at doing this to have something to easily refer people to when they want to see samples of your work.

Get out there and be shooting. If you show you are working hard to improve your photography, then it is a plus in a lot of cases.

Well worded emails to relevant local businesses/papers.

The next point may come off as harsh but don't take it that way.

Grow a thicker skin. You have been sensitive to replies on here (not even thinking that the people you are upset at may be the people who can help you most). Be aware that photography is not nice. You need to know that because someone is saying something you don't like that they are not doing it out of malice but as advice. Your attitude I am sorry to say comes off a little childish at times, and that is the last thing anyone wants in an employee.

People in photography generally have little time for letting people down gently. If your work is rubbish, they will tell you, straight away and very bluntly in a lot of cases.

You need to start building a strong portfolio of images. Putting them up for criticism and being prepared for things you don't want to hear.

It sounds harsh, but it is a harsh reality of the photo world.
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:clap::clap::clap:
 
Brandon, if you are looking for work experience wouldn't you do better by asking at your school/college? Afaik most schools have a careers advisor who handle these things.

If that doesn't work then start getting a portfolio together. I suggest you then visit every photographer in your area in person.
Don't phone them, dress smartly, take your portfolio and go in person. This will show them you have tenacity far more than a bog standard phone call.

Prepare to be knocked back but you may strike lucky and it will give you experience of job hunting.

Andy
 
jon ryan said:
To begin with, don't expect to be paid, or only a few pounds per shot. But do insist on a credit. If they like you and your work is good enough, they may start calling you. When that happens, you should get their standard freelance rate - perhaps £20 per shot used on a small paper. This rises when you become established, and could lead to a staff job.
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Wrong approach in the modern market Jon. You send them frebies to start off with, then you've pretty much blown it for future submisions.

It's had enough to get fees out of locals/regionals in the first place and that's without hampering yourself before you even begin to negotiate.
 
DemiLion said:
Wrong approach in the modern market Jon. You send them frebies to start off with, then you've pretty much blown it for future submisions.

It's had enough to get fees out of locals/regionals in the first place and that's without hampering yourself before you even begin to negotiate.
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*shrug*

Worked for me...

I'd say it's a useful investment for the future, DemiLion. Getting you stuff published gives you something of a track record you can hawk around other publications. If you prove you can do the job, you become valuable.
 
Regionals take the pisch enough as it is without giving them further encouragement.

Being published for credit will get you nowhere really. The NUJ/BPPA etc wont accept it for accreditation, neither will Dataco and all it will tell the production staff on a paper is that you are prepared to work for nothing apart from 0.00001p's worth of ink.
 
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