XL Bullies ? do we need to take harder action?

It's hard to disagree with your strong statement. If you want a dog you have so many breeds to choose from and there is, like you say a reason people choose these types of dog.
I genuinely cannot think why a normal person would want such a dog. I’ve known many dog owners and they wouldn’t touch a dog such as an xl bully. I used to know some guy who probably would have but he wasn’t right in the head!
 
When it comes to dogs everyone will have an opinion. In terms of XL bully’s I haven’t had one but I have had G.S.D’s, Akita’s and we recently got a staffy puppy. We have had lots of Jack Russel’s and Lab’s as well as a few other smaller breeds as well.

I know a few people that have XL’s and they are all experienced responsible dog owners. In all honestly there dogs have great temperament's and I would trust there dogs around people more than most.

All dogs need to be properly trained, socialised and have continuous engagement. Especially so with larger breeds not because they are inherently more aggressive but because a larger dog will simply do more damage if it bites. I very much believe in the nurture over nature argument. I don’t believe that banning a dog breed will make any difference. I do however think that there should be a lot more control over owners.

While researching what dog to go for when we recently got a new puppy XL’s appealed to me. I have always preferred larger breeds. This time though we decided that a medium sized dog would be a better option which is why we got a staffy instead. XL’s and Malanois which I also considered tend to attach themselves to one person, we wanted a dog that would attach themselves to all of us. We spent months deciding on a dog type that would suit our lifestyle. We knew after losing our Lab and Akita last year due to old age that we couldn’t have another one of those. Our lab was 18 and our Akita was 15 and we had them both from pups.

I can see the appeal of XL’s they make for beautiful pups and are great companions with the right owners. They seemed to get really popular over the pandemic but it seems to me that a lot of people got them without doing any sort of research on the amount of work needed to make them well rounded pets.

Because the internet knows everything when I look at my social media my feeds are full of dogs and in particular XL’s. Have seen some shocking videos of how some XL owners train there dogs. Teaching the dogs things like jumping up trees and attacking branches and teaching them to be aggressive when they hear the word “feds”. These people will just move on to other dogs and we will go again. It already seems that many of these types of people are getting Cane Corso’s.

Probably a pipe dream but I feel that owners should be licensed and only be allowed to own larger breeds after they have completed training etc. Almost like doing your driving test.
That's an interesting viewpoint . . .

The fact remains, that even when owned by experienced and responsible people, a dog bred specifically to fight other dogs is very likely to go off the rails and to cause danger to both other dogs and to people - so why take that risk?

The situation has become much worse since the pandemic, when people rushed out to buy pets because they were stuck at home, never giving a thought either to the needs of the animal or to whether they would be able to provide proper care once they weren't at home all day, and of course the isolation of the pandemic also pretty much stopped socialising with other dogs and people, a recipe for disaster.

And, of course, prices went through the roof, encouraging dodgy breeders, and even more inbreeding than usual.

In my opinion (and experience) most breeders are dodgy, whatever they may claim to the contrary, their interest is in making a lot of money. Every one of the 360 recognised different breeds has been selectively bred, originally to create good working dogs but now for their physical appearance, and to make money. "Selective breeding" is really interchangeable with inbreeding, because inbreedings can bring about much more rapid changes of appearance. As a direct result, we now have GSDs' that have such extremely sloping rear ends that they are inherently crippled, these are the ones that win prizes at dog shows but they are freaks. We also have flat-nosed bull breeds that can't breathe, and some can't even give birth naturally. Few, if any, of these inbred freaks, bred only to win at dog shows, are capable of doing the work that they were bred for, but they still have the working instincts, which is what causes most of the problems - or at least, the problems are caused by the ignorant public who can't be bothered to carry out any kind of research into the breed that they want to buy.

The main problem is the inbreeding. In theory, the written pedigree should show where it has occurred, but a written pedigree is nothing more than a bit of paper, there is simply no way of knowing whether the details on it are true or not.

Which breeds are the most popular? Well, sales of whatever breed has won Best In Show at Crufts each year go through the roof, the obscure, unpopular breeds that never win are far less spoiled in terms of conformation and temperament than the winners, so is the only real answer to ban the Kennel Club and ban breed shows? That isn't going to happen, so all that we seem to have left is to ban specific breeds, which can help to a very limited degree.

I very much agree that there should be controls on dog ownership, with compulsory training, but who would get the contract for administering it - The RSPCA, or perhaps Capita - which would be worse than the other? And, as with everything else in life, the underbelly of society would ignore the rules anyway.
 
That's an interesting viewpoint . . .

The fact remains, that even when owned by experienced and responsible people, a dog bred specifically to fight other dogs is very likely to go off the rails and to cause danger to both other dogs and to people - so why take that risk?

yep and that is why if i was in charge they would simply all be destroyed
not one more dead kid or grannie is worth it
 
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That's an interesting viewpoint . . .

The fact remains, that even when owned by experienced and responsible people, a dog bred specifically to fight other dogs is very likely to go off the rails and to cause danger to both other dogs and to people - so why take that risk?
I agree with a lot of what you have said but not this.

I know people including family who have had Pit bulls, Shar Pei’s, Tosas, Dogo Argentinos, XL’s, Pocket Bully’s and English Bull terriers all dogs that have a rep for dog fighting.

I also know lots of people who have had Rottweilers, Dobermans and even a guy who had half wolf dogs.

We have had G.S.D’s and Akita’s. Every dog I have mentioned has a rep. All of the people I know that have these dogs are responsible owners and there was never any issue with any of them. Even the pitties and the wolf dogs had the sweetest nature.

The only dog I have ever met and spent time with and thought was vicious was actually a Border Collie. It had a very bad owner though. Nature can definitely be influenced by nurture and training. Actually that’s not true my mum rescued a Yorkshire Terrier, donkeys years ago and he was an absolute demon and bit everyone he came across.

I don’t think killing off large groups of dogs is the answer. It will just lead to new breeds like the XL’s.
 
I genuinely cannot think why a normal person would want such a dog. I’ve known many dog owners and they wouldn’t touch a dog such as an xl bully. I used to know some guy who probably would have but he wasn’t right in the head!

Have you ever spent anytime with an XL. They are very loyal and lots of fun to spend time with as well as being unbelievably affectionate.

I would take an XL over a cockapoo or the other designer dogs any day of the week.
 
Have you ever spent anytime with an XL. They are very loyal and lots of fun to spend time with as well as being unbelievably affectionate.

I would take an XL over a cockapoo or the other designer dogs any day of the week.

just so not interested in that mate ive made my opinion pretty much on this they need destroying end of.
wouldn't have many dogs to be fair ,

I would have a border collie mind all day long , i walk one for a friend as i have a lot of time at the moment
absolutely rock solid responds to a whisper

mind you he is a reject sheep dog that failed the training lol
 
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Have you ever spent anytime with an XL. They are very loyal and lots of fun to spend time with as well as being unbelievably affectionate.

I would take an XL over a cockapoo or the other designer dogs any day of the week.
I’m not the sort of person attracted to them!!
 
I’m not the sort of person attracted to them!!
You seem to be under the impression that anyone that likes XL’s is some sort of yob.

That’s far from true. My doctor has 3 of them he is 60 odd. The principal of the primary school across the road from me has 1, and my uncle has 2 of them, he is 60 plus as well and the dogs are his whole life.
 
You seem to be under the impression that anyone that likes XL’s is some sort of yob.

That’s far from true. My doctor has 3 of them he is 60 odd. The principal of the primary school across the road from me has 1, and my uncle has 2 of them, he is 60 plus as well and the dogs are his whole life.
Not under the impression no. I only ever see ‘yobs’ or chavs with these type of dogs. Lots of them. Never a decent person. Yes there’s the odd genuine owner but by far these breeds attract the wrong sort of person.
 
Not under the impression no. I only ever see ‘yobs’ or chavs with these type of dogs. Lots of them. Never a decent person. Yes there’s the odd genuine owner but by far these breeds attract the wrong sort of person.

Maybe there is just more of those sort of people in England.
 

A boy is being treated in hospital after being bitten in the head by a dog, believed to be an XL bully.

The eight-year-old was attacked in a communal area of flats near Wadham Road, Bootle at about 17:20 GMT on Saturday, Merseyside Police said.

He was taken to hospital where he is in a stable but serious condition.

A 49-year-old woman and a 30-year-old man, who are not related to the child, have been arrested, while the dog has been seized by police.

The pair were detained on suspicion of being a person in charge of a dog dangerously out of control and causing injury.

They have been taken into police custody for interviews.
 
Going back to dog breeding
Edit. No dog under two years of age should be allowed to have puppies,
One litter a year
six (preferably four) litters in a lifetime

It is a tremendous physical strain on the dog. Now consider theoretically a dog can have 30 litters in a lifetime.
You will end up with a sick and weak dog which will produce sick and weak puppies.
With many dogs in a small area, there will be a build up of disease and parasites.
Such breeders will be more like second hand car salesmen
 
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Going back to dog breeding
A dog should have her first litter aged two
One litter a year
six (preferably four) litters in a lifetime

It is a tremendous physical strain on the dog. Now consider theoretically a dog can have 30 litters in a lifetime.
You will end up with a sick and weak dog which will produce sick and weak puppies.
With many dogs in a small area, there will be a build up of disease and parasites.
Such breeders will be more like second hand car salesmen
Again, selective breeding. Bitches should come into season once a year, but have been selectively bred to come into season twice a year, so that they can be abused by the breeders who claim to care about them:(
 
A dog should have her first litter aged two
One litter a year
six (preferably four) litters in a lifetime

Why should a bitch have a litter at 2 years old ?
Aren't there enough unwanted dogs already ?
I've lost count of the number of times I've tried to tell people it is not even necessary to have one litter from their dog

There is no restriction on how many litters a stud dog can sire and this is what has caused the deformities or so called improvements. A dog wins a top show and every other breeder wants to use him on their bitches and so the rot sets in
 
Why should a bitch have a litter at 2 years old ?
Its like the old wives tale with un bred (female) ferrets developing endomyotis / hyperestrogenemia, and becoming ill
and likely dying.
I had quite a few in the past, and never bred from any of them, they all lived long & happy working lives.

With dogs ( Bitches) as above, plus it's also supposed to control behaviour, making them more amenable if they are allowed one litter.
 
Its like the old wives tale with un bred (female) ferrets developing endomyotis / hyperestrogenemia, and becoming ill
and likely dying.
I had quite a few in the past, and never bred from any of them, they all lived long & happy working lives.

With dogs ( Bitches) as above, plus it's also supposed to control behaviour, making them more amenable if they are allowed one litter.

Yes J know that, just wondering why @kennethwfd feels a bitch should have 2 litters

As for the male dogs, it's more about those breeders who all clamour to get their bitch covered by the latest top show winner
thus reducing the gene pool for the next generation. The only dog I ever had real problems with was one who came to me as a rehome and his pedigree showed several closely/same dogs of both sides of his parentage, Breeders call it line breeding, to me it's inbreeding
 
Yes J know that, just wondering why @kennethwfd feels a bitch should have 2 litters

As for the male dogs, it's more about those breeders who all clamour to get their bitch covered by the latest top show winner
thus reducing the gene pool for the next generation. The only dog I ever had real problems with was one who came to me as a rehome and his pedigree showed several closely/same dogs of both sides of his parentage, Breeders call it line breeding, to me it's inbreeding
ok, I'll rephrase my statement to say that a bitch should be at least two years old before allowing her to have puppies.
I'm discussing the ethics of dog breeding by established breeders,
My family has had four female dogs, but never allowed them to have any puppies.
Yes, the XL Bully is today's fashion icon, and there is talk of sperm being frozen for use at a later date
 
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Have you ever spent anytime with an XL. They are very loyal and lots of fun to spend time with as well as being unbelievably affectionate.

I would take an XL over a cockapoo or the other designer dogs any day of the week.

This may come as blunt and white black and white but….

Someone mentioned there are 360 breeds of dog (not sure if that is true but anyway) and you could choose any but you openly choose one that’s killed tens of people…. and you are openly defending choosing one that has killed tens of people in a short space of time.
You can say what you want about nature and nurture or whatever but that doesn’t marry up with the facts and frequency of what is happening

I find that and this whole thing highly irresponsible and that post highly irresponsible personally.
 
This may come as blunt and white black and white but….

Someone mentioned there are 360 breeds of dog (not sure if that is true but anyway) and you could choose any but you openly choose one that’s killed tens of people…. and you are openly defending choosing one that has killed tens of people in a short space of time.
You can say what you want about nature and nurture or whatever but that doesn’t marry up with the facts and frequency of what is happening

I find that and this whole thing highly irresponsible and that post highly irresponsible personally.
Do you want labradors banned? They have killed more people than XL’s.

It’s your post that is irresponsible.
 
Nearly ever post I see about wanting to ban these seems to gloss over the fact of training as has already been stated. The media is not helping matters by focusing on the animal and not the owners in my opinion.

I've mets tens and tens of these and they've been a delight. Whilst you might get the odd bad egg (like any animal), my cynical (realistic?) view is it's much easier to push through some legislation to "solve" the issue by banning them rather than tackle the much harder issue of owners. They will just be replaced with another breed of "status" dog in due course.
 
Do you want labradors banned? They have killed more people than XL’s.

It’s your post that is irresponsible

Do you want labradors banned? They have killed more people than XL’s.

It’s your post that is irresponsible.

Why don't you stop with the obvious bulls*****g and look at the facts. No labrador has ever been responsible for a dog attack death in the UK.

 
Nearly ever post I see about wanting to ban these seems to gloss over the fact of training as has already been stated. The media is not helping matters by focusing on the animal and not the owners in my opinion.

I've mets tens and tens of these and they've been a delight. Whilst you might get the odd bad egg (like any animal), my cynical (realistic?) view is it's much easier to push through some legislation to "solve" the issue by banning them rather than tackle the much harder issue of owners. They will just be replaced with another breed of "status" dog in due course.

You also need to wake up and look at the link I have posted. People like you are in total denial about this very obvious problem.
 
You're still inferring a direct link between outcome and dog from that article, doesn't make any of the points in this thread about behavioural/training causes any less valid.

On another note can you reign in the aggression targeted towards other posters please, no need for that on this forum or any other even if there are differing views.
 
Do you want labradors banned? They have killed more people than XL’s.

It’s your post that is irresponsible.

Evidence?

When did a Lab killing someone make the news and how many XLs have done so? Plus look at the number of Labs v no. of XLs -
 
Yes of course it’s down to the owner and doing the right thing for everyone in society, making sure that your dog is properly trained but these XL dogs are bred for aggression and are ver large so if something does go wrong it’s more likely to be serious
 
Evidence?

When did a Lab killing someone make the news and how many XLs have done so? Plus look at the number of Labs v no. of XLs -
Do you believe everything you see on the news? The data is readily available online.

There are lots of other dog breeds that are far more aggressive then an XL. Smaller breeds in general tend to be the most aggressive.

 
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Yes of course it’s down to the owner and doing the right thing for everyone in society, making sure that your dog is properly trained but these XL dogs are bred for aggression and are ver large so if something does go wrong it’s more likely to be serious

Not true they were bred for muscle strength.

IMG_9568.jpeg
 
Do you believe everything you see on the news? The data is readily available online.

I found this online - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom. If you scroll down a bit there is a list of attacks.

I can't find a Labrador on the list. If you have a link for other data can you post it?

I think we also need a list that includes the number of dogs of each breed/type in the UK compared to the number of attacks by breed/type, though I think it would be almost to find the overall numbers of dogs.

Dave
 
I found this online - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom. If you scroll down a bit there is a list of attacks.

I can't find a Labrador on the list. If you have a link for other data can you post it?

I think we also need a list that includes the number of dogs of each breed/type in the UK compared to the number of attacks by breed/type, though I think it would be almost to find the overall numbers of dogs.

Dave

You must not have looked to hard try google
 
Do you believe everything you see on the news? The data is readily available online.

There are lots of other dog breeds that are far more aggressive then an XL. Smaller breeds in general tend to be the most aggressive.

Any dog can be aggressive, but the sheer size of the XL Buly makes them especially dangerous.
Weight for weight, dogs are far more efficient than humans. The strength per weight ratio varies a lot between breeds and types, but is in the range of 3 - 9 times. Let's be very conservative and say that XL Bullies are "only" 3x stronger than humans. It follows that a 150lb (68kg) dog has the same strength as a 204kg (32 stone) fit and healthy human. And that calculation ignores the fact that the dog has a much lower centre of gravity, four-wheel drive and is armed with 42 teeth. But, in theory, a strong, fit human who weighs 32 stone may be able to hold his own against a dog of this size. In reality though, as the police and prison officers will tell you, it would take at least 3 goodies to restrain 1 baddy without causing avoidable injury . . .

Yes, you may know some 60-year old people who have an XL bully, but if a strong person weighing 32 stone is, at best, evenly matched in strength, how can any 60 year old control them?

As for the number of breeds, there are 360 but these are recognised breeds only. The XL Bully, Pitbull, Labrapoodle and many others are crossbreeds, these aren't included in the list. There are plenty of other breeds to choose from.

Many years ago (late 70's - 80's) the met police used to pay me to deal with dogs on their drug raids. These dogs were nearly always pitbulls. I was well-protected with clothing and equipment and also armed, I always managed to secure the dog with a dog catcher without a problem, but the point is, the drug dealers chose to have pitbulls and used them as a weapon. Most breeds of dog, faced with the noise, excitement and violence of a police raid, would run and hide, pitbulls would often (not always) attack.

Regardless of whether or not the problem lies with the owners or the dogs, and regardless of whether or not any specific breeds of dogs should be banned, why would anyone want to have a dog that has been bred to be violent?
Not true they were bred for muscle strength.

View attachment 414900
Nonsense. Their record speaks for itself. Do you believe deceptive marketing about other products?
 
Nonsense. Their record speaks for itself. Do you believe deceptive marketing about other products?

There is lots of information online about how and why XL's were bred right from when they first originated in the states,

The reason for breeding and the characteristics the breeders wanted are quite clear.

"

The Origins and Purpose of XL Bullies

The XL Bully, or XL American Bully, is a breed that emerged in the late 20th century, primarily in the United States. Its development was driven by the desire to create a canine companion with a distinctive appearance and a gentle temperament, diverging from the aggressive reputation associated with some of its predecessor breeds. XL Bullies were bred with a focus on their suitability as family pets, rather than for any specific working role."

It's 2024 bro, it ain't the 70's any more. XL's didn't even exist then.

Your argument about their size makes no sense either.

Newfoundlands are bigger as are Great Danes and Irish Wolfhounds do you want them banned as well?

Maybe we should ban every dog bigger than a shih tzu, would you be happy then?

Also interesting that the R.S.P.C.A have been granted a judicial review and are fighting very hard to have the ban overturned.
 
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You must not have looked to hard try google

I did find an article from the Independent which referenced personal injury claims resulting from dog attacks which said - "The family favourite labrador is responsible for the highest number of canine attack personal injury claims,..." Link - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ely-to-attack-bite-you-revealed-a7166296.html

Perhaps not too surprising as there are a very large number of Labradors but the simple numbers don't tell very much. A claim for personal injury could be for a life changing injury or a nip to a finger.

Unfortunately, I believe, some want to breed XL bullys to be aggressive and some want to own them because they want such a dog.

You said in #60 " Do you want labradors banned? They have killed more people than XL’s." Can you post a link to support this?

Dave
 
I did find an article from the Independent which referenced personal injury claims resulting from dog attacks which said - "The family favourite labrador is responsible for the highest number of canine attack personal injury claims,..." Link - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ely-to-attack-bite-you-revealed-a7166296.html

Perhaps not too surprising as there are a very large number of Labradors but the simple numbers don't tell very much. A claim for personal injury could be for a life changing injury or a nip to a finger.

Unfortunately, I believe, some want to breed XL bullys to be aggressive and some want to own them because they want such a dog.

You said in #60 " Do you want labradors banned? They have killed more people than XL’s." Can you post a link to support this?

Dave

Already did further back in the thread. Do you not know how to use Google?
 
There is lots of information online about how and why XL's were bred right from when they first originated in the states,

The reason for breeding and the characteristics the breeders wanted are quite clear.

"

The Origins and Purpose of XL Bullies

The XL Bully, or XL American Bully, is a breed that emerged in the late 20th century, primarily in the United States. Its development was driven by the desire to create a canine companion with a distinctive appearance and a gentle temperament, diverging from the aggressive reputation associated with some of its predecessor breeds. XL Bullies were bred with a focus on their suitability as family pets, rather than for any specific working role."

It's 2024 bro, it ain't the 70's any more. XL's didn't even exist then.

Your argument about their size makes no sense either.

Newfoundlands are bigger as are Great Danes and Irish Wolfhounds do you want them banned as well?

Maybe we should ban every dog bigger than a shih tzu, would you be happy then?

Also interesting that the R.S.P.C.A have been granted a judicial review and are fighting very hard to have the ban overturned.
Newfoundlands were bred for water rescue and I have never heard of one attacking a person or a dog.
A bit of useless trivia, a Newfoundland survived the Titanic sinking, it swam around until being picked up by the Carpathia and was then adopted by a crewman. Great Danes and Irish Wolfhounds are potentially dangerous but are unpopular, there's no money in them and so they tend not to be line-bred or inbred by irresponsible people to "improve" them, they don't seem to be a problem.

In the last couple of weeks there have been 2 reported attacks by XL Bully dogs, one of which was fatal. How many more attacks will be needed before you accept that they are a problem?
 
Already did further back in the thread. Do you not know how to use Google?

I have read the only link you have put in this thread(in #67) and there is no reference to labradors killing more people than XLs.

I do agree with a lot of what you have said earlier, in #39, and there should be more control on the breeding and training but it would cost and as you say it is probably a pipe dream.

Dave
 
Do you want labradors banned? They have killed more people than XL’s.

It’s your post that is irresponsible.

ok apologies, maybe a heat of the moment comment

but I stand by the generally nature of the post. There are many dog breads out there - there is no need to have one which if not handled properly is a proven killer. Its in their nature it seems and the training/nature/nurchur debate is therefore irrelevant. Its an inherent trait and we shouldn't be owning dogs which you have to "train out" that trait for them to be safe...
 
but I stand by the generally nature of the post. There are many dog breads out there - there is no need to have one which if not handled properly is a proven killer. Its in their nature it seems and the training/nature/nurchur debate is therefore irrelevant. Its an inherent trait and we shouldn't be owning dogs which you have to "train out" that trait for them to be safe...

yep they are trained to be ultra violent and that is my point any dog that way isn't a dog its a genetic freak and when people call them pets there deluded.
 
Not true they were bred for muscle strength.

View attachment 414900

Garry has explained it better than I could and as I said before it’s the shere strength of the XL dogs if one decides to attack someone they would have no chance
can argue all day long about what they were bred for the actual disproportionate number of attacks from those dogs speaks volumes
 
Do you believe everything you see on the news? The data is readily available online.

There are lots of other dog breeds that are far more aggressive then an XL. Smaller breeds in general tend to be the most aggressive.


I agree, but to quote from your link;
Miniature Poodle (toy, miniature and medium-sized), and Miniature Schnauzer are quite aggressive

So if I got attacked by one of them, it would be a small bite - painful and awkward but unlikely to leave much of a long term issue. And if I was attacked they would be easy to kick/punch/restrain as they are not that big and weak. An XL though its a solid lump and very powerful. It would have me on the floor in seconds, a miniature poodle wouldn't, and it would be hard or impossible to fight off.

Put it this way, would you rather be shot by an air pistol (miniature poodle) or an AK47 (XL) - or hit by a kid in a battery powered toy car (poodle) or a HGV (XL) - get the point!! I would much rather be locked in a room with a happy aggressive poodle than an seemingly placid XL
 
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