yes another question! wedding lenses etc!

button-moon

button-moon

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Tracey
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Yes
ok ive done quite abit of research on what are good lenses for wedding photography,
Ive seen quite alot of the 50mm 1.2, and 85mm cropping up
but realize its each to their own really!

what are your favourites, and why?
and do you use flash?

im hoping to use as little flash as possible so as not to be too 'intrusive'
so for the inside shots (maybe in a really dim church) what would be your options?
ive seen people shoot at 6400 ISO, but my camera only goes to 3200 :lol:

and how would you capture those 'fast' shots like people throwing confetti?

lots of practice coming my way i can tell you that!

thanks guys :)
 
A fast zoom is best, so either the 17-55 f2.8 for a crop or the 24-70 f2.8 on full frame. I don't shoot weddings but if I did that would be the first thing in my bag. If you want a prime then a 50mm f1.8 or f1.4 would be good, as would an 85mm f1.8. I would still rather have the zoom.
 
24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 are my main wedding lenses. 85mm f1.8 in the bag as backup and for if the light is really low.
Unless you have a camera that can handle high iso really well and are confident with focussing using fast glass then you will need to use flash. I don't think thats an issue at all. Just practise so it looks as if you haven't used flash!
I set the confetti shot up so that I've got good natural light, make sure there is plenty of confetti (take your own and give it to tall people), put my camera on AIServo, and 10fps, shout 'GO' and hit the shutter but only using short bursts as the scene unfolds
 
I've only shot a few weddings so I do not write with any great authority.

However, for my last wedding I ditched the 24-70 f2.8 and forced myself to use the 35L on a 5D body for slightly wide angle shots and it worked out REALLY well.

Inside the church the lighting was dim and the f1.4 came in very handy.

For close-up candid shots, cutting the cake, first dance etc I use the 70-200 f2.8 IS (now mk2).

I had a play with the 135L but (not liking the use of flash) this just did not give good images and the IS on the 70-200 really comes in handy.

I know that the 5DII is regarded as a decent wedding cam but I use the 1DIII as my main tool for weddings; partly because of the double card backup and I'm paranoid about losing images. This is the same as Paul above. I have to say that the 10 fps does give some great fleeting moment shots.

Again, I'm not really qualified to give advice but do, if possible, have backups of all your gear. I have no idea what a 500D is like at iso 3200 ? I do have a 60D which is a lot grainy up there so maybe renting/borrowing a second body like a 5D2 or 1D3 might be a good idea ? Just my 2p worth.

Wishing you the best of luck with future wedings.
 
I use all in my bag depending on the situation. 24-105 and 70-200 get used the most though. As a self confessed noob, why are you looking at weddings? Its not just about a camera and a couple of nice lenses.

What about all the rest of the kit and the back up gear. not wanting to use flash means usually, I don't know how to use it.

Sorry to be blunt.
 
If you are going to do weddings for hire I would suggest a flash is a required piece of equipment. Most of your shots can be done without flash but you will have to adjust to the existing lighting source. Flash will bed needed for low lighting as pushing the ISO will give you noise and the enlargements will be grainy. Focal lengths should be 28mm for groups and 70- 200mm will et you all the rest.Shooting strobe free does have great results if you expose +/- depending on the suject
 
Nick C said:
If you are going to do weddings for hire I would suggest a flash is a required piece of equipment. Most of your shots can be done without flash but you will have to adjust to the existing lighting source. Flash will bed needed for low lighting as pushing the ISO will give you noise and the enlargements will be grainy. Focal lengths should be 28mm for groups and 70- 200mm will et you all the rest.Shooting strobe free does have great results if you expose +/- depending on the suject
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Flash is also a requirement on sunny days - days when the contrast is too much for the camera to record....
 
hi guys, i didnt subscribe to my own thread so didnt see the answers! LOL

thank-you for everyone who replied, ill go through them all properly in a sec.....just wanted to answer Jim...
Me and my friend ahave been asked to shoot a friends wedding (dont think they were having a photographer otherwise) so would be nice to come out with some decent shots instead of heading in there blind n wishing for the best.

we were thinking about hiring 5d's but ive no idea what going from a simple 500d, to a 5d will entail. lots more buttons im guessing? LOL
 
button-moon said:
hi guys, i didnt subscribe to my own thread so didnt see the answers! LOL

thank-you for everyone who replied, ill go through them all properly in a sec.....just wanted to answer Jim...
Me and my friend ahave been asked to shoot a friends wedding (dont think they were having a photographer otherwise) so would be nice to come out with some decent shots instead of heading in there blind n wishing for the best.

we were thinking about hiring 5d's but ive no idea what going from a simple 500d, to a 5d will entail. lots more buttons im guessing? LOL
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yep lots more buttons :D and big thing when my friend did just that last year, the change from crop format to full frame takes a little getting used to
 
button-moon said:
hi guys, i didnt subscribe to my own thread so didnt see the answers! LOL

thank-you for everyone who replied, ill go through them all properly in a sec.....just wanted to answer Jim...
Me and my friend ahave been asked to shoot a friends wedding (dont think they were having a photographer otherwise) so would be nice to come out with some decent shots instead of heading in there blind n wishing for the best.

we were thinking about hiring 5d's but ive no idea what going from a simple 500d, to a 5d will entail. lots more buttons im guessing? LOL
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Your camera is capable - although more fiddly - The 5D is actually easier in use but there are more options to play around with.

Hire another of the same type of camera that way you know how to use it! A 550D will be pretty much similar to yours.

It's lenses where the work is done. You need lenses that can work in any situation. And these are mostly expensive.

Maybe look to hire a 24-70 f2.8, a 70-20 f2.8L IS - Although be prepared for the weight as these are heavy! Couple of fast primes will not go amiss - 501.4 and 85/1.8 are very useful when the light it lower.

Flash is a very complicated subject and I'm only now starting to feel more confident about using it. Off camera is best but often not suitable for a single person shooting a wedding. But don't dismiss it..... You may need it to reduce contrast on a sunny day or get the shots in a dark church when it's raining outside.... You just never know what will happen!
 
thanks very much everyone :)

yeah luckily my dad has just bought a 550D so may ask to borrow that as a back-up

we are also getting the chance to play with a 5d soon hopefully just to see how we go with it.

yeah ive seen alot of the fixed ones being mentioned like the 50 and 85, but we have both admitted we would feel abit safer with a zoom just to try n make sure we capture the important shots. and used the fixed ones for the slightly 'posed' ones where u have time to move yourself around.

dont get me wrong we have done a major amount of research...we have album fulls of wedding photos saved on the computer of shots we NEED to get, and ones we would like to get, lists of back-up gear.....its just the actual shooting we need help with and have got a few shoots lined up, seminars, and maybe a trip to FOCUS in birmingham too before the big day comes.

I have a big 32" reflector which i hope will come in really handy, but maybe its too big to lug around at a wedding? LOL

we really do need a good practice but wanted to hire the right lenses so we know what we are doing on the day.

thanks again for the replies...me and my partner in crime are both reading them and taking everything into account!
 
button-moon said:
yeah ive seen alot of the fixed ones being mentioned like the 50 and 85, but we have both admitted we would feel abit safer with a zoom just to try n make sure we capture the important shots. and used the fixed ones for the slightly 'posed' ones where u have time to move yourself around.
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Perhaps you don't understand why people mention primes? THey are far faster than zooms - the 50mm f1.4 gives 4x faster shutter speeds than even the fastest canon zoom.

Dark church at f2.8 may not be fast enough even at the highest of ISOs. But with a prime you can make the shots. Also the shallow dof looks great.


button-moon said:
dont get me wrong we have done a major amount of research...we have album fulls of wedding photos saved on the computer of shots we NEED to get, and ones we would like to get, lists of back-up gear.....its just the actual shooting we need help with and have got a few shoots lined up, seminars, and maybe a trip to FOCUS in birmingham too before the big day comes.
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Having a shot of an image and being able to take it are two different things.

Get out with a couple of friends to try and see what you can capture. They don't need to be wearing their wedding gear..... Just means you get a feel for posing and playing around.

button-moon said:
I have a big 32" reflector which i hope will come in really handy, but maybe its too big to lug around at a wedding? LOL
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Certainly not too big.... Do you have an assistant?

button-moon said:
we really do need a good practice but wanted to hire the right lenses so we know what we are doing on the day.

thanks again for the replies...me and my partner in crime are both reading them and taking everything into account!
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Cover all bases with zooms and have a prime or two as the backup gear (hire them if needed). You'll probably want at least one lens faster than f2.8
 
button-moon said:
what are your favourites, and why?
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24-70. I checked and I used that for 75% of delivered wedding images last year. It's an excellent close combat weapon and has pretty much changed the way I shoot weddings. (Used to do a lot more on 70-200).

Going to be using more primes this year because I like the look and I think the discipline of fixed focal length will be good for me.

button-moon said:
and do you use flash?
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Of course. Most of what I shoot at weddings is available light. I pack 3 - 6 flashguns of varying sizes depending on venue and client.

button-moon said:
and how would you capture those 'fast' shots like people throwing confetti?
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Shoot fast ;) On of the very few things I'll ever shoot on motor drive. Odds are that on your best shot there will be confetti over an eye. 8 fps levels the playing field.

Sometimes I'll shoot it on flash though because it looks cool. But it's moderate risk.
 
o yes Jim i understand the prime lenses are faster and have lower F number so means they are good in low light. But i meant grabbing the candids i dont want to be stood right in someone face, so a zoom like 70-200 would be better. as i might not be able to move around too much with a fixed length depending on location. I was aiming to use the fixed ones for posing as usually there is alot more room to position yourself etc.

yeah for the church we are deffo looking at primes...its the most important part of the wedding and they are always usually dark!

yeah we have a few meets lined up (including one with the bride n groom to be at the church) also a seminar on flash at weddings etc

yeah i have an assistant, we are both shooting equally :)

we were looking at 24-70, 70-200 and maybe a 50 1.4
how does that sound?
id love to use them on a 5d, but i think getting a totally different camera from what ** used to can be a big gamble!! i think we'll be shooting with 500D's and 550D's

thanks jonathan. how do you like to use your flash? weve been messing with external flash diffusers....is that something you use?
ive seen people shooting with flashes pointed behind them!? how the hell does that work? LOL

LOL yeah ive seen many pictures with confetti over peoples eyes LOL


thanks everyone x
 
5D is a better and easier to use camera. particularly when using EC - With the xxxD cameras you have to press a button to shift the exposure. With the 5D it's an easy movement of the wheel.

24mm is not particularly wide on a crop camera. You might think it sounds ok but when faced with a group of people in a tight situation sometimes even 17mm is not wide enough!

I'd look at the 17-55 f2.8 IS if you are using a crop camera although you will get by with the 24-70 and if you ever upgrade will be perfect on a FF camera.

The three lenses you mention are all excellent for use at a wedding - Maybe even add something like a Tamron 17-50 as a backup that would allow you to go wider if you needed to?

Flash takes a fair amount of time to learn - read a lot - buy a book or two on camera flash or off camera flash- and practice loads!!!

Bouncing flash off a wall behind or to the side provides a direction of light. So to do that you just turn the flash head - This gives a larger source of light as the light hits the wall and spreads out - which means a softer more directional light. Bouncing off the ceiling provides a wash of light and can cause unsightly shadows under the chin and under the eyes - Angling the flash slightly forward or using the bounce card helps fill in those shadows by throwing some light forward.

Sometimes (like in the centre of a large open church) there is no option to bounce. Also if you bounce light off a wall be aware that the light reflected off it will pick yup some of the colour of the wall so colour shifts can become apparent.

I'm still learning a lot of this stuff and hoping to practice more.... :D
 
thanks very much Jim

im going to be really dumb now and ask what the difference in crop is between the cameras? what does it actually mean (i know crop means making a picture smaller/different shape etc) but not sure why there is a difference? LOL

Using a tamron as a back up is a great idea....we'd only need one of them rather than us both having them as we arent planning to do too many group shots. we like the more candid approach with a few bride n groom posed ones thrown in.

yeah ive often bounced flash off walls before when taking pictures of my cakes....but the picture i saw was of a woman photographing a bride on a street...she had the flash pointing directly behind her....and there was nothing there whatsoever to bounce off!! i just really didnt see the point in that?! LOL

thanks for the tip on the coloured walls...never thought of that!

this also may sound dumb.....but if there are no walls to bounce flash off and you dont want a harsh flash could u possibly point the flash behind you and someone hold the reflector to bounce the light back? though thinking about it without a flash with a swivel head from side to side the light would just bounce onto my backside LOL
 
button-moon said:
thanks very much Jim

im going to be really dumb now and ask what the difference in crop is between the cameras? what does it actually mean (i know crop means making a picture smaller/different shape etc) but not sure why there is a difference? LOL
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There are lots of threads on this subject have a look around by doing a search. In basic terms it makes your lens "seem" longer i.e. changes the effective field of view as compared to a FF camera - So a 24mm - 70mm lens will have a field of view of a 38mm - 112mm lens. So you can see 38m isn't that wide. I appreciate there's a lot more before anyone jumps down my throat on this. :)

button-moon said:
Using a tamron as a back up is a great idea....we'd only need one of them rather than us both having them as we arent planning to do too many group shots. we like the more candid approach with a few bride n groom posed ones thrown in.
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Easily said but on the day all will likely change! Wee auntie Jeanie and Uncle Johnny want their photies, oh wait what about cousin bob, oh and what about all the kids etc etc etc..... Be prepared.

button-moon said:
yeah ive often bounced flash off walls before when taking pictures of my cakes....but the picture i saw was of a woman photographing a bride on a street...she had the flash pointing directly behind her....and there was nothing there whatsoever to bounce off!! i just really didnt see the point in that?! LOL
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Was it to fire another flash? To bounce off a reflector? Not sure why without seeing

button-moon said:
thanks for the tip on the coloured walls...never thought of that!
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No bother.... Just something to be aware of

button-moon said:
this also may sound dumb.....but if there are no walls to bounce flash off and you dont want a harsh flash could u possibly point the flash behind you and someone hold the reflector to bounce the light back? though thinking about it without a flash with a swivel head from side to side the light would just bounce onto my backside LOL
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Yes a reflector will work you need someone with skill holding the reflector at the right angle. Angle both the flash and the reflector.
 
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button-moon said:
thanks jonathan. how do you like to use your flash? weve been messing with external flash diffusers....is that something you use?
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I use all kinds of stuff ;)

http://peoplebyryan.com/photoblog/a-drift-of-light

You can see lots of lights included in the BTS videos here http://peoplebyryan.com/for-photographers/behind-the-scenes-at-a-bridal-fashion-shoot and there tends to be some clues on lighting (not strictly weddings) in my POTW gallery http://peoplebyryan.com/picture-of-the-week

But basically, flash kit for a job often includes....
SB900
2XSB800
Grids, stofen and a couple of home made diffusers
small Lastolite Ezybox
white shoot through brolly
Safari kit (OR EID 500)
medium softbox, stripbox (with the grid that seems to have gone missing...), dish and grids

Sometimes more, sometimes less. But mainly available light..... :)
 
I don't think you need go to the expense of full frame (5D) for this job, but don't be put off. It's no different to your current camera, no more buttons, just a bigger sensor inside. The main difference between full frame and crop format, is image quality vs cost. That's what it boils down to, and not many folks output large enough to make the IQ difference worthwile.

I would: borrow that second camera and put a 17-55 2.8 lens on one (workhorse camera) and hire a 70-200L 2.8 for the other (second shooter, plus kit zoom for back up). From what you've said about flash, you have got a good handle on the potential there already. Grab that handle! Learn and practise as much as you can with bounce, bounce-fill, high speed sync, and diffusers. Good use of flash will transform your images and make far more difference to the results than any camera or lens will. Get a powerful gun like ther Canon 580EXII, and ask advice from the lighting section here :thumbs:

You can make it much more complicated with more lenses and multiple flash guns and all sorts of other stuff, but I think you'll get a better result by using what you've got and using it really well. TBH, you could do a damn good job with just the 17-55, a decent flash, and good technique.

Edit: on the flash diffusers thing, the one that does most things and does most things well, is the Lumiquest Quik Bounce - £40 here http://www.lumiquest.com/products/quik-bounce.htm I use almost nothing else these days because it's just so adaptable. But as I think you know, the key to good flash photography is knowing a bit about how light works ;)
 
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jim, no there was no other flash present....just another photographer hidden in the doorway getting the shot from a different angle.

Jonathan...great pictures!! and thats a heck of alot of flashes lol, how do you have the time to swap n change them all when theres so much to capture in the day?

thats another thing i was going to ask thanks for reminding me richard!....if i was to have the different lenses on the two different cameras....would it not be a hell of alot of work afterwards trying to get all the pictures in the right order you took them? especially as theres another shooter, also with 2 cameras...thats 4 lots of pictures that need to be put in order! i dont mind doing it, but i was just wondering if everyone else did this too or was there a way round it?

yeah i currently only have one of those Japanese flashes, and it only tilts backwards of forwards, so maybe could do with an all singing all dancing swivel one :)

and thanks for the link on the quik bounce....looks really good! though would be good to see it in action and the results of the shots too!
 
button-moon said:
jim, no there was no other flash present....just another photographer hidden in the doorway getting the shot from a different angle.
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Sometimes you don't see them but without seeing it I've no idea/

button-moon said:
thats another thing i was going to ask thanks for reminding me richard!....if i was to have the different lenses on the two different cameras....would it not be a hell of alot of work afterwards trying to get all the pictures in the right order you took them? especially as theres another shooter, also with 2 cameras...thats 4 lots of pictures that need to be put in order! i dont mind doing it, but i was just wondering if everyone else did this too or was there a way round it?
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Great question and easily answered.

In the morning of the shoot get all 4 cameras together. Set the menus on all 4 of them to the clock setting and set the time to the correct time.

Once done press set on all 4 at the same time - You should be able to do that easily.

Now when you import the images, display them on date created and you'll have all your images synced correctly. lightroom will do this easily.

button-moon said:
yeah i currently only have one of those Japanese flashes, and it only tilts backwards of forwards, so maybe could do with an all singing all dancing swivel one :)
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Absolutely necessary.
 
Vicki_Stephen119.jpg


very clever jim ;) fantastic idea thanks!
 
No worries :) Not my idea - standard practice with anyone using more than one camera:thumbs:

You don't see what is behind the photographer there....

You don't see what is above the subjects?

Could easily be a large reflector panel or something the hotel use?

Or the photographer to the side could have his flash on slave and fired by the woman photographer......?

Or the flash is off!

hard to tell .....
 
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In that pic above, my guess would be that the flash is just turned off - standard practise really if you use flash a lot. Could be bouncing off that nice white wall though, hard to tell from the angle.

Then again, maybe she's a lineswoman :D

PS Oops what have I said, that's a joke BM :eek:
 
She should be in the house making dinner for her husband:bonk:
 
lol now now boys :)
its role reversal in our house, my other half does the washing n ironing, and i do the DIY n play on call of duty LOL

yeah they only shoot as a couple (the person taking that pic was a friend who had tagged along) and they said they very rarely use flash.....but it was dark outside, in the evening, so how the hell did she do it with no flash!
 
button-moon said:
lol now now boys :)
its role reversal in our house, my other half does the washing n ironing, and i do the DIY n play on call of duty LOL

yeah they only shoot as a couple (the person taking that pic was a friend who had tagged along) and they said they very rarely use flash.....but it was dark outside, in the evening, so how the hell did she do it with no flash!
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streetlight maybe? or high iso, difficult to say without seeing the photo
 
button-moon said:
Jonathan...great pictures!! and thats a heck of alot of flashes lol, how do you have the time to swap n change them all when theres so much to capture in the day?
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Thanks ;)

I plan stuff. I know where we will be and what will be happening on the day and roughly where the sun should be so I'll have a vague plan. I'll modify that on the day for weather conditions and timetable changes but generally I'll know at least 10 mins before I need a flash what I'll need and where I'll need it. If it's not ready my assistant can get it ready :)

For example, in my flying bride pic I knew in the morning we'd be shooting portraits indoors and I needed controlled precise light. First thing my assistant did in the morning was assemble a stripbox and stash it with a Safari in the castle. I didn't know she'd be jumping like that but I had the light all ready for shots on the bed and it worked well for that.


...and so to bed. by Jonathan Ryan, on Flickr
 
PMSL, thats a fantastic picture :) Love it!!

cant wait to get out and have a try...but need all the equipment first!
doesnt cost too much to hire though does it?
and can you hire those flash diffusers/bouncers?
 
button-moon said:
lol now now boys :)
its role reversal in our house, my other half does the washing n ironing, and i do the DIY n play on call of duty LOL

yeah they only shoot as a couple (the person taking that pic was a friend who had tagged along) and they said they very rarely use flash.....but it was dark outside, in the evening, so how the hell did she do it with no flash!
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What was the resultant image like?
 
button-moon said:
PMSL, thats a fantastic picture :) Love it!!

cant wait to get out and have a try...but need all the equipment first!
doesnt cost too much to hire though does it?
and can you hire those flash diffusers/bouncers?
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You won't create images like that without a few years of experience. Flash is not something to hire for a day and try. Really you need to be out shooting as much as possible and practice as much as possible.

JD
 
Both very high ISO. No1 could be natural light. No2 has light added for sure = looks like rembrant lighting (the triangle under the eye gives that away) Light coming from camera left at about 45 degrees to the subject and higher than the subject. - Could be the street lighting although does look brighter.
 
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Looks like the street light to me. And a black & white conversion because the colour original was awash with high-ISO chromo noise and a strong colour cast.

Quite a good advertisement for the use of flash IMHO ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
Looks like the street light to me. And a black & white conversion because the colour original was awash with high-ISO chromo noise and a strong colour cast.

Quite a good advertisement for the use of flash IMHO ;)
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I was thinking the same. Not the best images really.
 
EOS_JD said:
I was thinking the same. Not the best images really.
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I quite like the first. Though I'd have pushed the contrast and added some grain. But then I always seem to like that.

Actually to tell the truth I'd have used a flash and gel and a bit of slow sync.

Not a huge fan of the second but I like the expression.

Oh and we have like 10 mins before the mods are on our case for (1) including pics from other people in a thread and (2) critiquing pics where the photographer didn't ask for it...
 
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