Yet another "What camera for a newbie" thread.

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Le_Petit_Lapin

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Hiya, been lurking on these forums for about a week now, since I have decided that I would rather like a decent camera. I'm currently using a Point and Click -Coolpix 7600 but that gives horribly noisy images and no ISO control. Resorted to using my mobile (N95) as a camera instead recently as it gives better pictures.

What of, you ask? Generally Landscapes, scenery, scenes, people if the damn thing doesnt come out fuzzy. Not all that intrested in close up macros. Oooh, just thought, I'd rather like to have a go at those photos where you set to shutter to be open for a long time, night time roads lights running of into the distance, etc.

I saw that what you generally do is advise people to go to a camera shop and feel up the cameras in their hands to see what they like, and I had a go at this over the weekend. The bodies in the same family of cameras all seem to me to be more or less the same, none of them particularly bothered me except the Olympus. It was just too small for my liking...seemed lighter too and had a smaller viewfinder, which I didnt like (sometimes wear contacts, other times glasses, and it wasnt handy).

Soooo.....that didnt really narrow down my choices too much. Decided to give myself a rough budget of about £450 to get started with and see what that would buy me on the internet. Didn't rule out second hand or refurbs, its all the same to me, and cheaper, always good. Heres a list of what seems to be the best deals I came across:

Nikon:
D60, Body Only - £289
D60, 18-55mm - £340

Sony:
A200, 18-70mm - £250
A350, 18-70mm - £409

Canon
400D, 18-55mm - £265
400D, 18-55mm, Sigma 70-300mm - £379
400D, 18-55mm, 55mm-200mm - £400
450D, 18-55mm - £439
20D, Body Only - £295.00

The 20D I threw in there as I was wondering if maybe I should get that along with a Lens from elsewhere? I know it was worth a lot more 2 years or so ago, but then have the more recent entry level cameras now got a better spec than it?

All of the above have all the stuff that comes in the retail camera box, most have memory included, but if now I can get that relatively cheap through work. Almost all the lenses seem to be the kit lenses that come with the cameras.

So, does anyone see anything there that they would particularly reccommend to a beginner starting out with a DLSR, or does anyone know of a better deal for around £450 to get me started with?

Oh an Hi, First Post, etc. :p
 
Welcome to the forums.

Well you've done one of the best things you can do and try the cameras in a shop (e.g. jessops) and see which one feels right.

I'd suggest you need to remember you are buying into a system of lenses and accessories and that once you are in a system its quite expensive to change. So it's also worth looking at things like the availability of second hand kit and the options you have to hire exotic lenses.

Given that digital SLRs are being replaced so rapidly I would be tempted to take a serious look at an older camera from further up the ranges such as the Canon 20D / 30D or the Nikon D100 or D80, there isn't much difference in the image quality and you'll get much better build quality from the Serious Am / Semi-Pro bodies of a few years ago.
 
Hello My little Rabbit, and welcome to Talk Photography!!

The Canon 20D is a really excellent camera, it was good 3 years ago, and just as capable now. It is a really good camera for building a basic system around...

How about this:

Canon 20D. £279
Canon EF 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 £49
Canon EF 35-80mm f4.5-5.6 £39
Canon EF 80-200mm f4.0-5.6 £49

Total: £416

All second hand from Mifsuds, who sell guaranteed used gear, who'm I'm more than happy to recommend.

http://www.mifsuds.com/usedpriceindex.htm

A good outfit covering wide angle to long telephoto, covering just about every eventuality, for well under you price. They'll sell you a good used bag to keep it in as well!!
 
Cheers for that link there, I'll certainly look into using them.

Regarding shutter noise, I know that the 20D is rather loud, are any of the alternatives quieter?

Also, I see the 20D doesn't have a dust removal feature, how does this work out in relation to dust on the sensor?
 
I don't think that the 20D shutter is particularly noisy??

Regarding dust removal.... Remove lens and or body cap. Switch camera on, engage mirror lock setting, press shutter release, give the sensor a quick blast with a rocket blower, or some canned air, release shutter, replace body cap/lens. There, it's that simple, and takes just a few seconds.

I think that automatic dust removal is a bit of a misnomer - it shakes off the dust, but doesn't remove it, so it sit's around inside the mirror box waiting for a breeze, ie when changing lenses, to blow it back onto the sensor. Even if I had the facility, I'd still use canned air to clean the sensor, mirror, and mirror box.

You know it makes sense.
 
I haven't used a 20D, but it has good references almost everywhere and its image quality even in jpegs is quite good.
I'd say it's a better value for the money than the D60 (I have a D50 and the D40/D40x/D60 still look more like a downgrade to me). If you don't want a second hand camera, then Canon has bodies with decent output even in jpeg and a very complete system. Sony is lacking a bit in the sheer amount of gear available for their cameras, but their bodies seem to be of great value, just like Pentax bodies these days.

In the end, I think you'll be happy with almost any new camera currently on the market and with most second hand bodies from the middle of the line-up of their generation and above. After you realise that, you'll be able to focus more on your photography and think twice about buying new stuff unless you either need it or have a bit of gear lust.
 
Some useful advice offered already :)

Can I just sneak in here and ask those that are providing the help to take a look at this thread (which is a tutorial/faq on a similar theme) and give their thoughts? thanks
 
The more I sit here and think about it, the more confused I am. Been reading through reviews of everything that I could buy, and they ALL give good clear pictures.

So then I went and had a nosy at what lenses are available, and there's a staggering amount there for any of the cameras, less so Sony, but its not missing anything that I'd find essential.

So really, it seems to me to be sensible to just find a package with a good selection of peripherals (ones that I'd end up buying anyway - storage cards for example) and twin lens kits.

It really doesn't seem to matter what camera I get, as I said all seem to give decent results, and if I really get into Photography, I'll just need to upgrade the body, and continue using the lenses i already have.

Anyway, currently looking at a Nikon D80 with Nikon AF 28-80mm F3.5-5.6 Zoom lens and Sigma AF DG MACRO 70-300mm F4-5.6 Zoom. Tempted to just buy it to be honest. :)
 
Le_Petit_Lapin said:
Anyway, currently looking at a Nikon D80 with Nikon AF 28-80mm F3.5-5.6 Zoom lens and Sigma AF DG MACRO 70-300mm F4-5.6 Zoom. Tempted to just buy it to be honest. :)
Click to expand...

Well thanks blown for budget :bonk:
 
I was like you but the "fondling of the cameras" helped me make up my mind. When I bought my D60 recently I was 100% sure I was going to get a 400D until I went into Jessops and held them both. Straight away I knew it was the D60 for me.

As you say though, they're all good.

LookUp
 
Choicing a camera is really down to the individual, you've done the best thing and gone and tried out a few camera's found ones you like and dislike. Exactly the same process most of us go through, but in your case, you have alot more choice.

Personally I would probably stick to either Nikon or Canon, they occupy a large proportion of the market and there's better choice of lenses.

Nikon beginner range of camera's have opted for bodies with out focus motors built into the camera's only in the lenses, the range is increasing but not all there yet, their intermediate range like the D80 has this built into the body so you could us their older range of lenses.

Canon on the other hand, all there EF lenses work with their entire range of cameras, only the EF-S lenses work with the small sensor camera's like the 450D, 30D etc and won't work on the 1D series camera's.

In the end, its down to you, and what you feel comfortable holding and forking over the money for.

Peter
 
Le_Petit_Lapin said:
Anyway, currently looking at a Nikon D80 with Nikon AF 28-80mm F3.5-5.6 Zoom lens and Sigma AF DG MACRO 70-300mm F4-5.6 Zoom. Tempted to just buy it to be honest. :)
Click to expand...

:agree: Great camera and good lens selection. Go for it.

Andy
 
Well I missed the deal on the Nikon. Whoops. Anyway down to a simple choice between two cameras now:

Sony A300 or Canon 450D?

Not all that much between them really, Canon seems to have a vastly greater amount of second hand glass available to it, but the IS is in the lens, so if I want that, it costs a bit more. Slightly cheaper memory cards too. The Sony has the IS in the body, so any lens has IS, but there doesn't seem to be anywhere near as much second hand glass available. Slightly cheaper than the Canon too, after the Canons cashback.

I'll definitely be getting one or the other this weekend....so....which do I get? Been pondering it all morning. Can anyone recommend one or the other with conviction?
 
Just out of interest, what price was the deal you missed?
 
PsiFox said:
Just out of interest, what price was the deal you missed?
Click to expand...

Heads a bit sketchy on that, been looking at too many damn cameras for a week now, but I believe it was Nikon D80 with Nikon AF 28-80mm F3.5-5.6 Zoom lens and Sigma AF DG MACRO 70-300mm F4-5.6 Zoom. along with 4GB memory and a bag to chuck it all in. Was a shade over £500
 
hello, I can recommend the sony. I have the a200. [I didnt want live view]. the 200 is extremely good value, as I think you already realize. Sony make sensors for nikon, by the way. The a200 is very easy to navigate, but I dont know about the 350 as its not a beginner camera like the 200. I have old minolta lenses which fit sony, as sony bought the rights to the minolta lens mount system.

I dont know about canon .Personally, I have never liked them. I have heard that they can suffer from soft focus and also people have had trouble in low light situations. Also, I was told by my local private camera shop that cannon wont deal with small shops only the big boys. Years ago I went for minolta rather than cannon because i didnt like the idea of their plastic lens mount that they used at that time. but things have probably changed now ,as that was 16 years ago.

I liked nikon and would have gone for the d60[ the d80 was too expensive for me] but the sony had i.st. more pixels etc. and just kept bouncing up again and again when I was choosing.

good luck with your choice. just go with your gut feeling, but dont rush into anything would be my advice. but as has been said , whatever your choice, I think you will be ok.
 
I was in your situation a while back.

Take a look at the Samsung GX 10. It is the pentax K10D re badges and means you can buy older pantex K fit lenses cheap as chips.

I love mine, and its really easy to use.

Good Luck and enjoy whatever you choose!
 
just to add a post script; one of the photo mags did a test of entry level dslrs recently and the sony a200 came out best for value, but the nikon d60 was best on performance.
I dont think you would go wrong with either make - I realize you are interested in the higher spec. models, but this gives an idea of the quality.
 
The price and availability of lenses will be your deciding factor, I think.

It's fun choosing but head doing too, isn't it!!! ???
 
jeannie said:
The price and availability of lenses will be your deciding factor, I think.

It's fun choosing but head doing too, isn't it!!! ???
Click to expand...

I've given up looking at lens systems. There's only so much information on F numbers and focal lengths that my head can hold all at once. :puke: There's pretty much something available for me in every system I think, as I don't need lens that require me to sell my car.

Its certainly engrossing too...for the last few nights after work I've just been sucking up information for hours on end about DSLR's off the internet.

Really doesn't help though, they're all good! There's just little niggles that swing my opinion for one camera to the other night after night. Shame I missed that Nikon deal, could have been happily fiddling away by now.

Anyway, strongly leaning in favour of the Sony right now, and intend to buy it tomorrow. :)

But hell, I'll probably end up posting tomorrow saying I've bought a Pentax instead. :LOL:
 
Got an A300 in the end, along with 18-55mm, 55-200mm, a UV Filter (which I'm not sure what to do with), 2 x 4GB CF cards, and a bag to chuck it all in. :)
 
nice one. a300 is a nice camera, sony have done well.

can this pull me away from nikon is the question
 
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