Yet more developing questions

Messages
4,347
Name
You can call me Sir.
Edit My Images
Yes
I'm determined to have a go at B&W developing next month once payday has come around but have a few questions mostly to do with temperature control. I know B&W isn't supposed to be as sensitive but I still want to try and get it right.

I'm assuming you make a bath of water at the right temp and then put your tubs of chemicals in it until they warm up to the right temperature?

When you've sorted your chems and you pour them into the drum do you need to worry about the teperature of the drum or can you leave it at that until the time is up?

Some of you may remember I rashly bought on of those drum motor things a while back. Using this will mean I have no temperature control during the processing phase. Is this a problem or should I bin it?

If I can use the drum motor do I still need the same amount of chems or can it be reduced? If so how much to?

Again if I use the drum motor does the rotating of the drum reduce the processing time or does it stay the same?


Apologies for the dumb questions but I hating trying things and messing it up because I don't know what I'm doing so the more info I have before hand the better.

Cheers,
Kev
 
I'm assuming you make a bath of water at the right temp and then put your tubs of chemicals in it until they warm up to the right temperature?

Pretty much. For black & white, stop bath and fixer are more or less temperature independant so you don't really need to put them in the bath. Just let them get to room temperature and measure the time it takes for a bit of film leader to clear completely in your fixer to find out exactly how long you will need to fix your film. I tend to have my water bath just a tad higher than the target temperature and keep checking the thermometer in the developer and then start it when it gets there. It is not a bad idea to warm the developing tank in the water bath as well

When you've sorted your chems and you pour them into the drum do you need to worry about the teperature of the drum or can you leave it at that until the time is up?

Assuming that your room is reasonably warm and that you don't choose too high a temperature to develop at then I would not worry too much about this although it is considered "best practice" to try to maintain the temperature as close to the start temperature as possible. Do a dummy run with water and no film. Start with your water at the target temp and at the end of the developing time pour it out and check the temperature again. You can then guesstimate the requirement to increse the dev time to compensate for any temperature drop. If it falls by more than say 2 or 3 degrees than you need to consider turning the central heating up, using a lower temperature to start with, or keeping the tank in the water bath when not being agitated. Plastic tanks hold their temperature far better than metal ones.

Some of you may remember I rashly bought on of those drum motor things a while back. Using this will mean I have no temperature control during the processing phase. Is this a problem or should I bin it?

See above.

If I can use the drum motor do I still need the same amount of chems or can it be reduced? If so how much to?

Continuous agitation with your roller thing and the tank on its side will allow for reduced chemicals - your tank may not be well adapted for this but if it is then it will say so on the tank and tell you how much chemical you need. Patterson tanks don't really like this in my experience - the system 4 type tend to end up with an almost unbreakable vacuum seal to the lid so you can't get the dev out at the right time and the super system 4 lids leak like a leaky thing from leaky town. Jobo tanks are fine.

Again if I use the drum motor does the rotating of the drum reduce the processing time or does it stay the same?

Continuous agitation will reduce the dev time - it should tell you by how much in the instructions for your developer (if indeed it is suitable).

Apologies for the dumb questions but I hating trying things and messing it up because I don't know what I'm doing so the more info I have before hand the better.

Cheers,
Kev

No such thing as a dumb question, plenty of dumb answers around though!
 
Hi Kev, I'm no expert but had a successful first dev run at the weekend.

I'm assuming you make a bath of water at the right temp and then put your tubs of chemicals in it until they warm up to the right temperature?

Yes correct. I had a water bath in a kitchen sink bowl at about 23 deg C - I wanted my chemicals at 21 deg C.

When you've sorted your chems and you pour them into the drum do you need to worry about the teperature of the drum or can you leave it at that until the time is up?

Once they are poured in don't worry about it. that's one of the reasons why I put my dev in at 21 deg C to allow for a fall whilst in the dev tank - my timings were for 20 deg C. Also I put my dev tank in the water bath before I started developing to get the plastic up to temp. The stop / fix and rinse stages aren't so critical but everywhere I have read says keep them within +/- 5 deg C of the dev.

Unfortunately I don't know about these drum motor things - I'll leave that to the experts...
 
The stop / fix and rinse stages aren't so critical but everywhere I have read says keep them within +/- 5 deg C of the dev.

The main reason for this has nothing to do with the chemistry but more with the physical properties of the film and its emulsion. A sudden large change in temperature can cause them to contract or expand at different rates and sometimes lead to cracking of the emulsion known as reticulation. It has a quite appealing "crazy paved" effect and in my more creative (or perhaps desperate) moments I have tried to achieve this effect on purpose.

It has to be said that the results have been disappointing since modern films are designed very carefully to resist this taking place and it takes a lot of abuse to make then do it.
 
With black and white developing, I've had absolutely no trouble with at all. The temperature was "about right" but not perfect and it developed great. With colour - utter disaster and I have no more colour developing stuffy left to have another go.

The biggest problem I'm having is water marks on my negatives. Any tips for getting shut of these?
 
I've downloaded the guide from the Ilford website and all the timings are for 35mm. I gues I'll need more chems for 120 but will I need more time too?
 
I've downloaded the guide from the Ilford website and all the timings are for 35mm. I gues I'll need more chems for 120 but will I need more time too?

The time is the same regardless of format.

You will need more chemicals for roll film than for 35mm and depending on the tank you have it is likely to be it written on it somewhere. Jobo tanks have it printed on the side, Patterson ones have the quantities moulded into the plastic on the base of the tank.
 
The biggest problem I'm having is water marks on my negatives. Any tips for getting shut of these?

There are a number of things you can do to reduce the possibility of water marks.

Wetting agent in the final rinse is vital, make sure it is at the correct dilution.

There has always been debate over the use of film squeegees. They are certainly effective but have to be kept absolutely clean unless you want tramline scratches in your emulsion. The rubbers also tend to harden over time and at the first sign of this throw it away and get a new one!

I have always found it easier to gently run the film between index and middle finger.

If you use squeegee or fingers dip them in the final rinse water with the wetting agent in it first.

The aim is NOT to get a dry film but to leave a very thin and even coating of water which will (hopefully) dry to leave no marks.

If you live in a hard water area you would be well advised to use softened water (or just use "Brita" filtered water) for the final rinse. If you are lucky enough to have a permanent darkroom that an in-line water softener cartridge is ideal.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the tips Nicos! I'll give that a go.
 
Right then, I'm starting to get the bits and peices needed together but have another question about film backing paper. Do you take it off the film before you wind it onto the rell, as you wind it on to the reel or do you peel it off after developing? I reckon I should be ready to have a go by the weekend, can't wait.
 
Hi there! we always get told to mix our developer to 20 Degrees, i was having some problems last week with lack of contrast and long developing times, turned out the temp had dropped to 16 and that was causing all the problems

i am sure you get a feel for it in the end, but i would be ridged at first about what temp you use at all times, it makes a huge different to the printing process in my (limited) experience
 
Right then, I'm starting to get the bits and peices needed together but have another question about film backing paper. Do you take it off the film before you wind it onto the rell, as you wind it on to the reel or do you peel it off after developing? I reckon I should be ready to have a go by the weekend, can't wait.

Unless you want to end up with papier mache attached to your negs then it is not a good idea to put the backing paper into the tank!

As to when to remove the backing paper this is pretty much a matter of personal preference. If in a darkroom I find it easier to despool the whole thing, remove the backing paper and chuck everthing I don't want onto the floor. When using an changing bag it is easier to get the film into the spiral as you unwind it from the spool separating the backing paper as you go.
 
I'm now dreading my first proper go at it. I just had a practice run with a roll of 220. I've got a few rolls in the fridge and I don't like it so thought I'd use it for practice. I now understand better about seperating the paper (both on 120 and 220) but what a disaster it was trying to load it on.

First I tried it inside the changing bag but something wasn't right so I opened the bag and tried it in the light. The film went on so far but then it wouldn't go on any further. Trying to ratchet it further just made it crease. Perhaps the reel isn't very good but it looks like I'll need to practice with a roll of 120 before I try it with a film I actually want to get something from.

Thanks for the advice,
Kev
 
Right then, I'm starting to get the bits and peices needed together but have another question about film backing paper. Do you take it off the film before you wind it onto the rell, as you wind it on to the reel or do you peel it off after developing? I reckon I should be ready to have a go by the weekend, can't wait.

:LOL: I tried for a good 15 minutes to get the backing paper onto the reel the first time I tried dev'ing 120.

Just make sure your reel and your hands are bone-dry and the film should go on the reel quite easily. If you're battling your hands may perspire slightly in the darkbag - best to remove hands (don't let light into the bag), let them dry off and then try again.
 
LOL. I agree wth removing the backing completely from roll film. If you separate it from the film at the spiral loading stage, it tends to coil up like Christmas streamers and you end wresting with it in the dark like stringy snot. :LOL:
 
LOL. I agree wth removing the backing completely from roll film. If you separate it from the film at the spiral loading stage, it tends to coil up like Christmas streamers and you end wresting with it in the dark like stringy snot. :LOL:

:LOL: :cautious:
 
Back
Top