mrjames
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a setup of 3 canon 600exrt's, and the st-e3 trigger costs = £1569
wireless ettl and manual control- radio trigger build into flash
a setup of 3 nissin 866mk2 (ettl) flashes and 4 yongnuo 622c receivers costs = £690
wireless ettl and manual control, battery pack ready, radio trigger attaches to flash shoe
a setup of 3 yongnuo 565 (ettl) flashes and 4 yongnuo 622c receivers costs = £422
wireless ettl and manual control, battery pack ready, radio trigger attaches to flash shoe
a setup of 3 yongno 560III (fully manual) flashes and a rf602 trigger costs = £178
wireless control (set power on flash), battery pack ready, radio trigger build into flash
the world is switching over to RT instead of IR, that's great- IR sucks! But the canon solution is so god dam expensive that I have investigated other options.
Below I have some insights, questions about my needs, and hopefully also some answers to your needs- so read on and apologues it's so long.
I recently had all my equipment stolen, and some of it is being replaced
but I had to buy some gear in the meanwhile to tide me over
I've never had 'backup gear' and happy to report that i've never needed it, but
luck won't last forever so i'm happy for the stuff I bought now to become 'backup' gear when I eventually get the money back to put together my long term set-up
it's not very often that you get the 'chance' to totally evaluate eveyr piece of gear you owned and weather it was really the best way of doing things, as much as it sucked loosing all my stuff it was interesting to see what limitations there were with my old set up, and compare it with the new 'backup' setup to see where I would like to go for my long term set-up
What I used to have:
yongnuo st-e2 trigger
2x canon 550ex
430ex
using it 90% of the time in strobist style manual mode- adjusting power on the flashes, but was a problem when trying to work quickly as I had to walk over to each flash.
frequently had misfires, and problems triggering outdoors, and line of sight issues using the IR controller- had much more success using visible light from the 550ex as the master controller though so could usually find a workaround
recycle time on the 550ex was slow
and i'm 100% going to invest in battery packs for the flashes as 1/1 power eats battery life
often the 550ex wasn't enough power- so although I like working with 3 lights, i'd like to have the option to 'double up' on power- I thought about studio lights but I like portability and battery options.
What I played with in the camera shop
Nissin 866 master (and on camera ettl)
nissin 466 as slave
love the 866, hated the 466, thought the build was horrible and it wasnt easy to use in manual mode- but it worked well wirelessly controlled by the 866 and was a good price though, so I left with only the 866mk2
but I needed more than 1 off camera flash so purchased some more things off amazon to leave me with this setup:
yongnuo 602 triggers
yongnuo 560 III x2 totally manual flashes
nissin 866
love the 560 III as they have built in wireless receivers, and work great in manual mode (although power has to be set on the flash), so I was on location for a shoot and I set the 602 to trigger the 560 and set the optical slave on the 866 to fire when the 560 was tripped- could have used the remaining receiver to trigger the 866 flash but working indoors it was fine triggered optically
this set up was great, and worked well- but had to adjust power on each flash, which was fine with an assistant but could be a drag if the flashes were out of reach
can't speak for the longevity of the items but so far working well
absolutely hate that the 602 doesn't lock onto the camera hotshoe! very loose fit as well.
usually work with 3 lights, but interested in owning 6 lights total for double power, redundancy and for more creative lighting, so i'm thinking about investing in more 560III flashes so I have 3 flashes that can be triggered by the 602 (or from visible light), as a fully operational backup system and I could use them along side my main light kit when I need extra light for shooting f11-16
What i'm getting as a 'like for like' replacement
600ex RT x2
430ex
cash for the trigger to replace yongnuo st-e2
i'm pretty stoked to be getting 600ex's, but really not sure I need them. I was expecting 580ex's
this leaves me with
yongnuo 602
nissin 866mk2
yongnuo 560III x2
canon 600exRT x2
canon 430ex
£80 for a flash trigger
I'd like to keep one of the 600's to use on camera as my ettl weather sealed flash, but not sure what to do with the other, it's a lot of money for a feature I might not be using and I actually really liked the simple menu on the nissin, worked well as my on camera flash in times when I had to quickly switch to manual mode when ETTL was playing up, will have to see what I think to the canon, but from looking at videos it seems slower and less logical- would be interested in the weather sealing though but I don't really shoot in the rain.
I'll likely sell the 430 as I think I prefer the nissin 866's power, and with no optical slave, battery pack ability, and no built in RT feature i'm not sure whether it's useful at all, just don't know what it brings to the party.
so for the long term plan:
Option A is to embrace canon RT wireless, and the costs involved- so getting the st-e3 trigger, using the 2 600ex's and then the nissin 866 and 2x yongnuo 560III as visible light optical slave units- when I have the money replace the nissin with another 600ex (i'm still in the returns period for the 866 so could return it now, only used it once), or wait until yongnuo bring out their version of the 600exRT, or canon bring out a 430exRT. The world is going RT, but with so much lost equipment to replace right now i'm looking for the best bang for my buck, so...
Option B is to ignore the built in canon RT features and use third party RT options, (to just pretend that they're 580's and not 600exRT's), i'm 99% sure I want to be using RT instead of IR, and i'm 100% sure I don't want something as big as a flash on the camera as a master controller- so maybe I keep the 600's or replace them with 580's/nissin 866/yongnuo 565 or 568 and look into using something like the phottix odin, or yongnuo 622c to trigger the ettl flashes with wireless manual control.
All the wireless systems have pro's and con's, just got to figure out which is the best one to invest into.
Yongnuo are of course the cheapest, and the advantage of the 622 is that I could still use the manual 602 on top to trigger the 560III flashes, disadvantage is that it won't work with my 5dc, only my 1d3. Phottix is the most fully featured, but is expensive and has no flash hotshoe passthrough. Canon is even more expensive and actually seems like the worst system out the 3.
I like the simplicity of having the receiver built into the flash unit, so I like the 560III and yongnuo 602 combo- just don't like not having remote manual control- and the canon st-e3 and 600exRT is like a much much much more expensive version of that with wireless manual control and wireless ttl (which i'd never use), phottix also have their own flashes coming out with receivers built in, but they're nearly as expensive as the canon's.
I bet yongnuo will bring out a flash with build in receivers for the 622 system- I think that would be great, and apparantly yongnuo bringing out a 600exRT equivalent as well as a st-e3 clone- which would be utterly perfect, just not sure when it might come out- and need a working system right now to take pictures with.
So I guess it boils down to whether I'm prepared to 1) have receivers attached to my flashes 2) spend the money for the canon rt or phottix system 3) live with having to adjust the 560's on the actual flash 4) prepared to wait for a possible yongnuo solution
Just wish that the future was more clearly defined- don't want to end up with a load of useless incompatible equipment, but I am perfectly happy to buy equipment now that will later become a working backup solution
wireless ettl and manual control- radio trigger build into flash
a setup of 3 nissin 866mk2 (ettl) flashes and 4 yongnuo 622c receivers costs = £690
wireless ettl and manual control, battery pack ready, radio trigger attaches to flash shoe
a setup of 3 yongnuo 565 (ettl) flashes and 4 yongnuo 622c receivers costs = £422
wireless ettl and manual control, battery pack ready, radio trigger attaches to flash shoe
a setup of 3 yongno 560III (fully manual) flashes and a rf602 trigger costs = £178
wireless control (set power on flash), battery pack ready, radio trigger build into flash
the world is switching over to RT instead of IR, that's great- IR sucks! But the canon solution is so god dam expensive that I have investigated other options.
Below I have some insights, questions about my needs, and hopefully also some answers to your needs- so read on and apologues it's so long.
I recently had all my equipment stolen, and some of it is being replaced
but I had to buy some gear in the meanwhile to tide me over
I've never had 'backup gear' and happy to report that i've never needed it, but
luck won't last forever so i'm happy for the stuff I bought now to become 'backup' gear when I eventually get the money back to put together my long term set-up
it's not very often that you get the 'chance' to totally evaluate eveyr piece of gear you owned and weather it was really the best way of doing things, as much as it sucked loosing all my stuff it was interesting to see what limitations there were with my old set up, and compare it with the new 'backup' setup to see where I would like to go for my long term set-up
What I used to have:
yongnuo st-e2 trigger
2x canon 550ex
430ex
using it 90% of the time in strobist style manual mode- adjusting power on the flashes, but was a problem when trying to work quickly as I had to walk over to each flash.
frequently had misfires, and problems triggering outdoors, and line of sight issues using the IR controller- had much more success using visible light from the 550ex as the master controller though so could usually find a workaround
recycle time on the 550ex was slow
and i'm 100% going to invest in battery packs for the flashes as 1/1 power eats battery life
often the 550ex wasn't enough power- so although I like working with 3 lights, i'd like to have the option to 'double up' on power- I thought about studio lights but I like portability and battery options.
What I played with in the camera shop
Nissin 866 master (and on camera ettl)
nissin 466 as slave
love the 866, hated the 466, thought the build was horrible and it wasnt easy to use in manual mode- but it worked well wirelessly controlled by the 866 and was a good price though, so I left with only the 866mk2
but I needed more than 1 off camera flash so purchased some more things off amazon to leave me with this setup:
yongnuo 602 triggers
yongnuo 560 III x2 totally manual flashes
nissin 866
love the 560 III as they have built in wireless receivers, and work great in manual mode (although power has to be set on the flash), so I was on location for a shoot and I set the 602 to trigger the 560 and set the optical slave on the 866 to fire when the 560 was tripped- could have used the remaining receiver to trigger the 866 flash but working indoors it was fine triggered optically
this set up was great, and worked well- but had to adjust power on each flash, which was fine with an assistant but could be a drag if the flashes were out of reach
can't speak for the longevity of the items but so far working well
absolutely hate that the 602 doesn't lock onto the camera hotshoe! very loose fit as well.
usually work with 3 lights, but interested in owning 6 lights total for double power, redundancy and for more creative lighting, so i'm thinking about investing in more 560III flashes so I have 3 flashes that can be triggered by the 602 (or from visible light), as a fully operational backup system and I could use them along side my main light kit when I need extra light for shooting f11-16
What i'm getting as a 'like for like' replacement
600ex RT x2
430ex
cash for the trigger to replace yongnuo st-e2
i'm pretty stoked to be getting 600ex's, but really not sure I need them. I was expecting 580ex's
this leaves me with
yongnuo 602
nissin 866mk2
yongnuo 560III x2
canon 600exRT x2
canon 430ex
£80 for a flash trigger
I'd like to keep one of the 600's to use on camera as my ettl weather sealed flash, but not sure what to do with the other, it's a lot of money for a feature I might not be using and I actually really liked the simple menu on the nissin, worked well as my on camera flash in times when I had to quickly switch to manual mode when ETTL was playing up, will have to see what I think to the canon, but from looking at videos it seems slower and less logical- would be interested in the weather sealing though but I don't really shoot in the rain.
I'll likely sell the 430 as I think I prefer the nissin 866's power, and with no optical slave, battery pack ability, and no built in RT feature i'm not sure whether it's useful at all, just don't know what it brings to the party.
so for the long term plan:
Option A is to embrace canon RT wireless, and the costs involved- so getting the st-e3 trigger, using the 2 600ex's and then the nissin 866 and 2x yongnuo 560III as visible light optical slave units- when I have the money replace the nissin with another 600ex (i'm still in the returns period for the 866 so could return it now, only used it once), or wait until yongnuo bring out their version of the 600exRT, or canon bring out a 430exRT. The world is going RT, but with so much lost equipment to replace right now i'm looking for the best bang for my buck, so...
Option B is to ignore the built in canon RT features and use third party RT options, (to just pretend that they're 580's and not 600exRT's), i'm 99% sure I want to be using RT instead of IR, and i'm 100% sure I don't want something as big as a flash on the camera as a master controller- so maybe I keep the 600's or replace them with 580's/nissin 866/yongnuo 565 or 568 and look into using something like the phottix odin, or yongnuo 622c to trigger the ettl flashes with wireless manual control.
All the wireless systems have pro's and con's, just got to figure out which is the best one to invest into.
Yongnuo are of course the cheapest, and the advantage of the 622 is that I could still use the manual 602 on top to trigger the 560III flashes, disadvantage is that it won't work with my 5dc, only my 1d3. Phottix is the most fully featured, but is expensive and has no flash hotshoe passthrough. Canon is even more expensive and actually seems like the worst system out the 3.
I like the simplicity of having the receiver built into the flash unit, so I like the 560III and yongnuo 602 combo- just don't like not having remote manual control- and the canon st-e3 and 600exRT is like a much much much more expensive version of that with wireless manual control and wireless ttl (which i'd never use), phottix also have their own flashes coming out with receivers built in, but they're nearly as expensive as the canon's.
I bet yongnuo will bring out a flash with build in receivers for the 622 system- I think that would be great, and apparantly yongnuo bringing out a 600exRT equivalent as well as a st-e3 clone- which would be utterly perfect, just not sure when it might come out- and need a working system right now to take pictures with.
So I guess it boils down to whether I'm prepared to 1) have receivers attached to my flashes 2) spend the money for the canon rt or phottix system 3) live with having to adjust the 560's on the actual flash 4) prepared to wait for a possible yongnuo solution
Just wish that the future was more clearly defined- don't want to end up with a load of useless incompatible equipment, but I am perfectly happy to buy equipment now that will later become a working backup solution
