"You have to break the rules to get the best shot"

RacingSnake

RacingSnake

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This has been playing on my mind, and wonder if I'll get a genuine or even mixed response here...

On Sunday morning I spent about 4 hours waiting for a shot of a Barn Owl at a new site I had heard about... it's set back maybe 50 yards from a wire fence up against an oak tree.
During that period he showed his face out the box and I snapped a couple of 'peek-a-boo' type photo's, then the owner of the adjacent field (out walking their dog) told me to come back at 5pm as thats when 'she' flies out and goes hunting.

Anyway, whilst sat there a bit longer, another photographer came over (had obviously been here before too)... started talking to me about my camera/lens etc etc usual 'tog chat.
He showed me some of his photo's, which to be honest, were really good!! (certainly on par with some of the crackers I see on here).

He then climbed over the fence and said he was going to get closer, he didn't have a lens like mine so needed to get closer... and 'Don't tell anyone', I said I don't really agree with that, you'll scare them off, don't go there etc etc, but he then said to me "You have to break the rules to get the best shot", at which point he disappeared off through the grasses, to which his 'really good' shots were clearly taken from about 10ft in front of the box.

I waited maybe another another half to 1 hour with no sign of the Owl, so decided to pack up (he was still crouched/sat in front of the box).



I came back at 4, and once again set up in front of the box and waited... and waited... at 5pm, this same tog came back again, said he waited for a couple of extra hours after me and as soon as he climbed back over the fence she flew out and didn't come back... FFS :mad:

So I said I guess then she's not in there, you've scared her away and I doubt she is in the box... he climbed over the fence again and said he's going for a close up.
After maybe only another 10 mins I started packing up, so he came back over the fence. I said I'm heading back to my car (under the guise of getting the car out before the car park gets locked).
He said he'd walk back with me. we chatted and I said I don't agree with climbing over, and give them space etc.

As we walked back along the main path, I spotted the Owl out hunting in the field, he was a bit far away, but I thought even a record shot is better than nothing.... this other chap then disappeared off through a broken fence onto the field :(
I said I wasn't going with him and headed off on the path myself - I actually set up camp maybe another 50 yards away and snapped a couple of shots across the field.

View attachment 33546 View attachment 33547
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So, what I wondered, was (if it's not too a controversial question), to what degree do you believe it's ok to get the 'good shots'?
Where do you draw the line?
:tumbleweed:
 
People like that don't do anyone any favours, I think you should keep your distance otherwise the wildlife will re-locate itself somewhere more remote. Then no one will get a shot.
 
As a rule, I'd say as long as you are not spooking the subjects or causing them any cause for concern, alarm, danger or disturbance then fire away. Bear in mind the provisions of the Wildlife and Countryside Act etc etc (and Trespass, law you have south of the border).
 
On the one hand you have proved he was right.. you said his shots better than yours and he breaks the rules to get them..

On the other hand he spoils it for everyone else and needs shooting :(
 
I do my best not to spook the animals. At best it will make them warier and harder to photograph in future, at worst all the time and energy they waste running away could cause them problems getting enough food. I definitely wouldn't approach any kind of nest box I knew was occupied unless I was absolutely certain it wouldn't upset the occupant.

Besides, relaxed animals behaving naturally make better photos.
 
Its worth noting that he's not just breaking the rules he's also breaking the law - Barn owls are on schedule 1 of the WCA so disturbing one at or near the nest without a licence from NE is an offence.

In your shoes if i knew who he was i'd happily report him.

That aside in general tems my guiding principal is that the welfare of the subject is more important than the photo
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
I generally have the same issue in photography , normally its the slightly tense moment when mother does up daughters dress having not had any practice - shaking hands, perspiration, the scowl of the bride - knowing the moment to go in close or when to stick the big white one on and stay well out of the way ;)
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Bit early to start drinking isn't it :thinking:
 
I think you did the right thing in having nothing to do with him. The guys a dick and should be reported.

If I were you I would spend some time looking in the surrounding fields to see where the owl is hunting. We spent a couple of days watching the owl I posted pics of in the bird section. We knew were the nest box was and thought maybe the female was in the box and the male was bringing her food. We had seen it hunting this field and noticed that it was very methodical in its path. Always starting at one point and zig zagging up the field. We managed to find a spot near the top hedge and just waited. Luck was on our side but I think we made our own luck to a degree by watching it for a day or two.

You can get lucky or you can put in a bit of time to try to increase your chances of a result. In one field we put a post in to see if the owl would perch as it kept landing on a fence post. It was on it within 20 minutes but no pics as we were just watching it.

Good luck
 
I concur with what others here have said but then again as I race I don’t think we care much about anything except what we want. I would love to get the perfect photo of wildlife but I would never do anything to make it feel like I am threat to it.

Sounds to me like the guy was an obnoxious b****** who only cared about getting the perfect photo and personally, I would have reported him.
 
I was lucky enough to get some pictures of a newborn deer fawn taking it's first steps a couple or years ago in a local park.
Had taken someone with me in the hope that there would be some young about but nothing to be seen.
So we sat and watched the herd, they relaxed and moved closer, one of the does got up a few yards away and still had the afterbirth hanging
and few minutes later the baby shakily got up and took it's first steps, was a magical moment.
I'm sure if I had posted the pictures I would have got slated for it, but she knew we were there and had been for a while,
the herd moved towards us before she gave birth, of course I am going to take a few pics.
 
Wow, what a great mix of replies - I had visions of it being rather 1 sided but am happy with the honesty applied.
To add a little balance, he did 'tread lightly' so I couldn't say for certain one way or the other if they were disturbed (although it flew out after he left and seemingly didn't come back).

Gaz J said:
If I were you I would spend some time looking in the surrounding fields to see where the owl is hunting.
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This is actually what I'm going to do, after all I'd rather have a 'hunting' photo than an emerging from next box photo - and the edge of the aforementioned field is where I did get the 2 above.

With regards to the reporting, to who? and how? it's an 'unmanned' site

big soft moose said:
Barn owls are on schedule 1 of the WCA so disturbing one at or near the nest without a licence from NE is an offence.
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It is known that this is a breeding box, they had 8! chicks last year (according to the adjacent land owner I was talking to).
 
big soft moose said:
That aside in general tems my guiding principal is that the welfare of the subject is more important than the photo
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I agree, the wildlife subjects wellbeing must have priority over the picture in every case.
Landowners generally don't appreciate people climbing fences, so there's always a chance of people being banned from the site if due respect to the property isn't shown.
 
Excuse me for being mildly boring but barn owls are Sched1 birds in the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

Which basically means:

"It is also an offence to intentionally or recklessly disturb barn owls at an active nest site with eggs or young or before eggs are laid, or to disturb the dependent young."

As far as I'm concerned you are both being prats.
 
DemiLion said:
"It is also an offence to intentionally or recklessly disturb barn owls at an active nest site with eggs or young or before eggs are laid, or to disturb the dependent young."

As far as I'm concerned you are both being prats.
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Understood, I'm sat on a footpath frequented by dog walkers - so don't understand how that would be recklessly disturbing them, but appreciate another viewpoint (y)
 
RacingSnake said:
Understood, I'm sat on a footpath frequented by dog walkers - so don't understand how that would be recklessly disturbing them, but appreciate another viewpoint (y)
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It's not really clear from your original post if either of you actually disturbed the bird.
 
RacingSnake said:
How would one really know?
The only thought I had was the comment that the owl flew out the box after the chap climbed back over the fence to leave.
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Yeh, it may have been as a result of that or just time for it to leave anyway. Difficult to say.
 
indeed...
according to google maps "measure", I was sat approx 94m away from the site. (further away than I thought)
 
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Lets do "Devils advocate" :thinking:
Anyone ever notice the reaction of a Barn owl to the shutter sound of a DSLR.
 
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Neil B said:
Lets do "Devils advocate" :thinking:
Anyone ever notice the reaction of a Barn owl when it here's the shutter sound of a DSLR.
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Do you mean 'hears'??
 
DemiLion said:
As far as I'm concerned you are both being prats.
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That's a bit unfair as I get the impression that the OP was some distance from tbe box.
 
RacingSnake said:
indeed...
according to google maps "measure", I was sat approx 94m away from the site. (further away than I thought)
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I would say that 94m was a more than a safe distance away from the box as not to disturb it.
 
RacingSnake said:
Understood, I'm sat on a footpath frequented by dog walkers - so don't understand how that would be recklessly disturbing them, but appreciate another viewpoint (y)
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Dog walkers are passing by. Someone sat as close as you implied (60 yards or so) and not moving would definitely be seen as a threat. You are effectively a hunter watching its prey.

Reckless behaviour is something that would cause a bird to abandon (or destroy) it's nest or young. Lurking close to a nest may well qualify.
 
DemiLion said:
It's not really the shutter that's the important factor though, is it? :)
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Not at all, the important thing is that you are a obviously Barn owl expert :rolleyes:
To be fair though i have been disturbed by the odd Barn owl in my time and can remember this one disturbing me on a public footpath, didn't have time to get the tape measure out ;)

Ever felt you are being watched... by Neil Brimacombe, on Flickr
 
DemiLion said:
Reckless behaviour is something that would cause a bird to abandon (or destroy) it's nest or young. Lurking close to a nest may well qualify.
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To be fair:
adjective
Reckless:
utterly unconcerned about the consequences of some action

I don't think that could be further from the truth.
 
Neil B said:
Not at all, the important thing is that you are a obviously Barn owl expert
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No, not an expert. There was one nesting in a wrecked cottage about 300m from where I was living a couple of summers ago but I wasn't daft enough to approach the site - nor were any of the village for that matter. We let it be.

Taking shots out on the hunting field is a different matter though. Especially when the bird comes to investigate you - pretty much as your one did.
 
RacingSnake said:
To be fair:
adjective
Reckless:
utterly unconcerned about the consequences of some action

I don't think that could be further from the truth.
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True - but if you cause disturbance to a nest site it doesnt really matter whether you were reckless or negligent the same harm is still done
 
Ok, I'll issue an apology to those that think my sitting on the path 100m from the site is causing a disturbance, I have no way of identifying whether it did or didn't. :|

I'll be honest though, I didn't really expect my (what I thought was responsible viewing) would end up in me being called a prat, negligent and reckless. :|
 
the acid test is has the bird been disturbed by your actions - if it wasnt then probably you werent either negligent or reckless, (unlike mr dim wt who was definitely reckless) , however in general terms 100m is too close to a schedule 1 nest site particularly without a hide etc
 
big soft moose said:
the acid test is has the bird been disturbed by your actions - if it wasnt then probably you werent either negligent or reckless, (unlike mr dim wt who was definitely reckless) , however in general terms 100m is too close to a schedule 1 nest site particularly without a hide etc
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Pete, genuine question, are there any published guidelines as such for this?
 
useful to know.
In reality, and as I mentioned, it probably wouldn't produce a great shot anyway compared to the hunting field.

That said, it's a fairly well known site, and I've only been there the once so far, so the owls are probably used to people watching - I was told of the fledging last year there were about a dozen "of you" all lined up waiting (on the path) :eek:
 
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