OP
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You argue with me all the time
2 years v 4 years membership not a huge amount in it pro rata
do you have an "images" count ...
and the site receives a small commission
Yulin dog eating festival
- Thread starter BillN_33
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do you have an "images" count ...
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Its not a requirement of membership, if it was, there would be a substantial reduction in members.
You'd amazed at the amount of people that have been here years and never posted an image!
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Not a one click one, no, it would take a lot of searching, and quite frankly I CBA.
But see my post above.
OP
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There are also other issues surrounding this "Festival" - which I believe is only a few years old ... it is not an age old traditional things ........
Public Health issues .. disease knows no national boundaries
The way the dogs are killed - they are always looking for ways to "improve" the "taste" of the meat ------- from killing them in front of each other, they believe that the adrenaline flow caused when the dog "knows" that it is going to die, improves the quality and taste to skinning them "almost" alive and several other methods
If that is a reflection on Chinese Culture . well .. we know what to expect
but as I said I thought that my initial post was a good thing to post .. and I am sorry, (for the sake of animals, more than anything else that certain views have been expressed) ...... back to the Bird forum . for sanity
I'd lock the post Mods to keep Ruth happy!!
Public Health issues .. disease knows no national boundaries
The way the dogs are killed - they are always looking for ways to "improve" the "taste" of the meat ------- from killing them in front of each other, they believe that the adrenaline flow caused when the dog "knows" that it is going to die, improves the quality and taste to skinning them "almost" alive and several other methods
If that is a reflection on Chinese Culture . well .. we know what to expect
but as I said I thought that my initial post was a good thing to post .. and I am sorry, (for the sake of animals, more than anything else that certain views have been expressed) ...... back to the Bird forum . for sanity
I'd lock the post Mods to keep Ruth happy!!
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And has been mentioned a few times, not only in this thread, they seem to be very much a law unto themselves.
And no amount of Western intervention will stop them doing what ever they see fit to do, unfortunately.
OP
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We must keep trying .....................
Cg_Girl
Jamie Oliver's best friend.
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Sadly I think that's impossible....
As for the thread, doesn't need locking, yeah it's been discussed before but then what hasn't.
nickEnackEnoo
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I think I read that last year, it's just a bunch of folk trying to reinvigerate the traditional market of dogs for food, with a festival. Lots of things should be allowed to die out with older generations rather than rebranded and remarketed (like that ballroom garbage, can't believe it is still popular!)
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quantity not quality
I don't know ... how many photos has Ruth posted on this photography forum compared to Bill
Who cares. It's all about the dogs.
You might think about starting a "have a pop at Ruth" thread.... Clean this one up a little.
OP
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Really no answer to that ....... unless you take a few bird images ....... a group of black birds circling in the air would be good
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Serious question: why is it OK to eat pigs but not dogs? FWIW I think that eating either is wrong but I'd find it easier to understand somebody who ate both than somebody who decided it was morally reprehensible to eat one whilst happily scoffing another.
OP
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although I keep stressing that I made two points - eating dogs - and how they are treated ............... I am totally against what the Chinese do
but we are getting into other areas now - but I will give you A quick answer
Public Health - have you seen what dogs eat? - (there is a famous question - Q: why do you think dogs lick their arses, A: "have you seen what they eat")
Basically man has selected and bred animals for specific purposes ........ pigs, cows, and sheep if you like for food ......... it is relatively controlled ...... as is what they eat .........but we do make mistakes and will continue to do so ...... but they are basically bred to eat and selectively bred for that purpose, (there is no natural selection in food production) ........ they are killed in a "humain" way which is supposed to be less stressful to the animal ....... (it depends about your views on what kind of feelings animals have) ...... we perceive that if we feed them good food they will taste better
The dogs the Chinese eat, or indeed any domestic pet ..... well are they safe to eat? ...... do we know ......... judge for yourself ......... Dogs have been bred as domestic pets and for working ............... not for eating and they are not wild animals ...... they have been selectively bred by man as pets .............. but this would be a minor point for the Chinese unless something happened
as far as wild animals are concerned ........ they do or did eat what they were intended to eat
Just one consideration that we would (now) take into account in the west
but this is not my point ........ I am only concerned about public health in China if it affects the rest of the world, and who knows ... and as I said there could be many others issues
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The problem with making quick points is that they are just too easy....
What do pigs eat? Anything you give them. Just like, you know, dogs. It's pretty widely accepted that one of the best ways to get rid a human body is shave the head, smash out the teeth and feed everything else to pigs.
And it's way too easy to point out that you can't even spell humane
What do pigs eat? Anything you give them. Just like, you know, dogs. It's pretty widely accepted that one of the best ways to get rid a human body is shave the head, smash out the teeth and feed everything else to pigs.
And it's way too easy to point out that you can't even spell humane
Nod
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Do fish and crustaceans/molluscs count? Plenty of those are carnivorous and delicious!
IF they're killed humanely (and I'm well aware that some of the dogs in China aren't), I see no difference. I wouldn't knowingly eat dog since the norm seems to be that they're inhumanely killed.
OP
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The problem with making quick points is that they are just too easy....
What do pigs eat? Anything you give them. Just like, you know, dogs. It's pretty widely accepted that one of the best ways to get rid a human body is shave the head, smash out the teeth and feed everything else to pigs.
And it's way too easy to point out that you can't even spell humane
don't really understand what you are saying concerning Public Health ................... are you saying that what is fed to pigs is no different to what is fed to dogs and that both pigs and dogs have been bred for the same thing, to be eaten by humans
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Do fish and crustaceans/molluscs count? Plenty of those are carnivorous and delicious!
If you want to get pedantic then most crustaceans / molluscs aren't classed as animals. At least, not for the purposes of the animal cruelty act which rather oddly only applies to vertebrates (and possibly octopuses).
And if you want to get really pedantic then dogs aren't carnivores. They are omnivores and can live perfectly happily on a meat free diet. Unlike cats which are obligate carnivores and can only exist without eating other animals if you supplement their diet with taurine because they lack the ability to manufacture it.
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Well, I just read some pretty well researched evidence that says that frying bacon (without even eating it) is actually fairly toxic so I can't see how eating dog would be worse for "public health" than eating pigs.
In case you're interested - http://nutritionfacts.org/video/carcinogens-in-the-smell-of-frying-bacon/ (BTW I haven't actually watched that video but I've read the book based on it. It's probably worth knowing that 40% of the book is footnotes linking to heavy duty research.)
OP
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I have not read the book or seen the video - but isn't the main reason that it is toxic is because of how it has been processed by man ......... not because of what has been fed to pigs or how they have been selectively bred by man
processed food is another issue as is eating red meat and any link with cancer
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woof woof
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Personally I think it's terrible but it's a cultural thing. I'm British (sort of) and we see dogs as special and part of the family and we don't usually eat them, nor horses. Other cultures have different mores. However, accepting that it's their cultural I do wish they'd treat animals better, we wouldn't allow the animals we do eat to be treated the way that some in the far east.
woof woof
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I don't red meat or birds and my flesh intake is limited to fish and chips now and again but... If I was attacked by something and survived I'd eat it or at least try a bit. Not that I'm likely to be attacked by a wolf or a tiger in Middlesbrough but I could be attacked by bears if I stand on the cracks... and yes, I'd eat him. Yum Yum.
woof woof
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Is that an ad for an alcohol free pub?
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As my fellow mod implied over the page, they pretty much taste like s***!
Now, if they tasted like bacon, it would be a different matter no doubt.
Its over heating the teflon pan that gives off the toxic fumes. ( not read the report you mention)
Mostly they are scavengers feeding off dead and rotting carcasses.Do crustaceans/molluscs count? Plenty of those are carnivorous and delicious!
But yes I agree, delicious.
You mean anything made of steel? good luck with that
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That's also true, but the research found that bacon was particularly bad. I suspect because from what little I remember of bacon you are basically burning it.
OP
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I thought that is was the high levels of inorganic phosphate salts in bacon that was the concern
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So just Hep E, Salmonella, E. Coli, Staph Aureus and Lysteriosis then. Oh and the ever charming trichinellosis. I mean, if we're just listing the fatal ones.
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Reasonably sure that the research in question didn't find a reason. Just proof that it did. Maybe some other research blamed phosphates. I'm not entirely certain I'm actually that bothered why it causes cancer
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There's only one way to eat streaky bacon and that's crispy
Seems a bit odd though that it's just pig ( if it is) some people will go for a "well done" read burnt on the outside steak.
TBH I would have thought that the a "blue" or rare steak would be worse. Just just enough heat to get the bacteria growing nicely.
Oh well everything ( or something) will kill us one day...
OP
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how about Blue Cheese - just eaten some?
OP
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And it's way too easy to point out that you can't even spell humane
humain - thanks for that never been good at English grammar ........ but at least i know why I made the "error"
I have the same problem with a few other words "sharpe"
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I think that something of greater concern to us, should be how China treats people, particularly poor people, who it sees simply as a resource, to be worked hard and used up. In most Chinese factories, suicide nets are fixed in position around stairwells and balconies so that people cannot throw themselves to their death. Chinese mines have the worst safety record in the World, with accidents/disasters claiming the lives of thousands each year.
Should I be concerned?
Probably.
What good does it do me to be concerned, when it is just one more thing added to all the things in my life which make me depressed, and it is something totally beyond my control.
Should I be concerned?
Probably.
What good does it do me to be concerned, when it is just one more thing added to all the things in my life which make me depressed, and it is something totally beyond my control.
I have been to France Bill (and this probably happens in many countries around the World), and seen large fish markets, where the fish are so fresh that they are still alive, flapping around on trays to suffocate, dry out in the heat of the day, and nobody seems concerned, but I am when I see it, but that feeling goes when I realise that I cannot do anything about it.
Gremlin
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There's only one way to eat streaky bacon and that's crispy
Seems a bit odd though that it's just pig ( if it is) some people will go for a "well done" read burnt on the outside steak.
TBH I would have thought that the a "blue" or rare steak would be worse. Just just enough heat to get the bacteria growing nicely.
Oh well everything ( or something) will kill us one day...
Not keen on crispy bacon of any variety, but this new fad for everything raw really annoys me, I do like my meat cooked :banghead:
As to eating dogs, no that doesn't appeal to me either, but as Bill said it's not eating them that is a problem it's they way they are treated, but then
why should that surprise us when the Chinese are still a major contributor into the extinction of many species for their use in medicines, the Elephants
and Rhinos for their horns with the knock on effect of causing the deaths of many vultures bringing them into the endangered zone
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What people eat is in part due to peoples perception of it. As an example lots of people in the UK are happy to eat lamb/mutton but would not eat sheep's eyes. whilst many will tuck into a bacon sandwich, few will munch on pigs trotters. Several religions won't even entertain pork. We eat very little horse meat in the UK. and the list goes on.
So I suspect most in the UK would see eating dog as wrong, few of us have any idea what it actually tastes like. (rather like sheep's eyes)
So I suspect most in the UK would see eating dog as wrong, few of us have any idea what it actually tastes like. (rather like sheep's eyes)
Garry Edwards
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I'm totally against all forms of animal cruelty, regardless of species.
Having got that out of the way, the only contribution that I can make to this thread is that I've been to China, often, and not as a tourist, is that in my experience nothing that's in the western media can be believed, reports of people living in poverty, reports of strict censorship, lack of freedom of speech and so on, none of them bear any relationship to the truth and because of this, although reports of Chinese people eating dogs is likely to be true (because different regions have different food specialities and there are a lot of different regions) I doubt whether the numbers will be true.
As for the alleged cruelty, it may or may not be true but the fact that it's in the western media doesn't make it true.
Killing animals in front of each other is an horrific thing to do. It's just as horific whether it's somewhere in China or in an English slaughterhouse.
Having got that out of the way, the only contribution that I can make to this thread is that I've been to China, often, and not as a tourist, is that in my experience nothing that's in the western media can be believed, reports of people living in poverty, reports of strict censorship, lack of freedom of speech and so on, none of them bear any relationship to the truth and because of this, although reports of Chinese people eating dogs is likely to be true (because different regions have different food specialities and there are a lot of different regions) I doubt whether the numbers will be true.
As for the alleged cruelty, it may or may not be true but the fact that it's in the western media doesn't make it true.
Killing animals in front of each other is an horrific thing to do. It's just as horific whether it's somewhere in China or in an English slaughterhouse.
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Totally agree.
OP
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I suppose all fish die out of water when their gills dry up and once they are dead their bodies start to change. So to be as fresh as possible before they are eaten they are kept alive in water, indeed there is a speciality dish in Japan where you pull the fish out of water, cut it up in front of the customer who then eats it while it is still moving.
Are we now comparing fish to dogs? ............................. and are we to start a discussion
Q1: Is it OK to eat dogs ........ A: No
Q2: Is it OK to eat ? ........ A: No
..............
............
down to
Q12: Is it OK to eat Chicken ..............A: Yes
or similar
They still sell live Hens, Ducks and other birds at the local (in France) market ........ as traditionally, for some, less and less as time goes buy, they prefer to kill the bird just before cooking it and also use the blood. Maybe this is more humain than factory killed poultry?
no they are not for "pets" children?
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Garry Edwards
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Animal cruelty is often down to perception, and also ignorance.
Chinese people want their food to be totally fresh, and it's a common sight in their street markets for people to choose the fish that they want, which is kept alive in a tank. The seller then takes it out of the tank, smashes it on the ground and then guts it. No doubt smashing it on the ground is done for his convenience, not for the benefit of the fish, but the end result is the same - the fish is either dead or unconcious when it's butchered. It looks horrific to people who never give a thought to the history behind the piece of chicken they buy in the supermarket, but it's as humane as it can be.
I had an "interesting" conversation with someone last night. I was zeroing the sights on a couple of rifles, a neighbour complained, said that the noise was frightening his horses, in a nearby field. Fair enough, I was happy to stop, especially as I had just finished the testing
He went on to tell me that he doesn't like guns and that guns should be banned. I pointed out that not all guns are owned by drug dealers and that they have a real purpose - what if one of his 12 horses became injured and needed to be shot? His reply to that was that he would call the vet, who would kill it humanely by injection. I pointed out that (from experience) it isn't always possible to get close enough to inject an animal that is in pain and distress, and the only solution is to shoot it from a safe distance, which is every bit as humane as an injection. He knew better though, and said that he would never allow any of his horses to be shot. So much for responsible horse ownership...