Zeiss ikon folders

Ben johns

Ben johns

Messages
957
Name
Ben
Edit My Images
No
I just managed to get a ikon netta to fill the hole left by my RB67 for landscapes. I really like the camera but my model is f6.3 with only 3 shutter speeds not including bulb. Is there a model that has a more usable range of speeds? I only really want a focal length of between 40-50mm on full frame and ideally 6x6
 
The angle of view @ 40-50mm focal length on 35mm film, is different to that of 6x6.
Are you saying you want something at 40-50 for 35 and 75 for 6x6, or are we talking 40-50 for both ?
 
You obviously can shoot scapes on 6x6 but generally I think square doesn't lend itself as well as oblong.
So if your gonna get a 120 camera for that, you might as well go 6x9 unless you're gonna crop.
645 is fair for scapes.
Narrowing down a format makes the search easier...:)
 
joxby said:
You obviously can shoot scapes on 6x6 but generally I think square doesn't lend itself as well as oblong.
So if your gonna get a 120 camera for that, you might as well go 6x9 unless you're gonna crop.
645 is fair for scapes.
Narrowing down a format makes the search easier...:)
Click to expand...
Yea I do want it to be 6x6. I like square format photos. I’ve had a mamiya 645 and a mamiya rb67 and I still like the square format, I’ve cropped a fair few into square when I shot only digital too.
I only really want to know which model folder would have more shutter speeds but be 6x6 with
 
I think the nettar was the budget option. The Ikonta and super Ikonta have both a better lens and more shutter speeds. Though the slow speeds are likely gummed..
 
Every model of Nettar came in a variety of shutters, so it's a case of looking at each one you see.

Personally, having owned a Nettar and a Super Ikonta, I much, much, prefer Agfa Isolettes.
 
I think it'll be the Super Ikonta's with the biggest shutter speed range, but I'm not sure.

The B models are 6x6, but an 80mm lens, 1 to 1/500th shutter speeds though..:)
 
simon ess said:
Every model of Nettar came in a variety of shutters, so it's a case of looking at each one you see.

Personally, having owned a Nettar and a Super Ikonta, I much, much, prefer Agfa Isolettes.
Click to expand...
What’s better about the Agfa isolettes?
 
In my experience, having used an Isolette iii with Apotar lens and an Isolette ii with Solinar lens, the image quality is way better.

I also like the mechanics of the film loading spool which holds the roll together while you thread it onto the take up spool.

The weak point is the bellows. I've been lucky and had no problem but they are renowned for bellows leaks.

Replacements are readily available though.
 
Ben johns said:
I only really want to know which model folder would have more shutter speeds but be 6x6 with
Click to expand...
You want a Nettar with either a Klio or Prontor shutter (they are actually the same). If you want a 'newer' Nettar - 517 or 518 - it will be the Prontor shutter which will give you a max speed of 1/300.
 
simon ess said:
In my experience, having used an Isolette iii with Apotar lens and an Isolette ii with Solinar lens, the image quality is way better.

I also like the mechanics of the film loading spool which holds the roll together while you thread it onto the take up spool.

The weak point is the bellows. I've been lucky and had no problem but they are renowned for bellows leaks.

Replacements are readily available though.
Click to expand...
funny enough ive just ordered a Isolette ii with apotar in an attempt to find a medium format camera thats small, so I will actually carry it. my other stuff ended up just left at home
 
niko said:
funny enough ive just ordered a Isolette ii with apotar in an attempt to find a medium format camera thats small, so I will actually carry it. my other stuff ended up just left at home
Click to expand...

Ross Ensign 16-20, the one with the Ross Xpress lens is the better version. They are selling for £20ish at the moment and will fit into a back pocket.
 
I must try a Ross Ensign at some point.

Isn't the 12/20 the 6x6 one?
 
Last edited:
Andysnap said:
Ross Ensign 16-20, the one with the Ross Xpress lens is the better version. They are selling for £20ish at the moment and will fit into a back pocket.
Click to expand...
I will keep my eye out, or maybe pop up an ad at some point
 
simon ess said:
That's a 16/20 Asha.

I'm very much a square.

There seems to be a fair selection on there.
Click to expand...

Ah sorry! I was obviously having one of my "Blithering" moments and not paying attention!:D
 
simon ess said:
That's a 16/20 Asha.

I'm very much a square.

There seems to be a fair selection on there.
Click to expand...

I had a 12/20 a few years ago and it was just as impressive as the 16/20 but obviously a bit bigger.
 
I have owned a few Zeiss folders, in 4.5x6, 6x6, 6x9 format, and they all are very capable, in fact, they are first class cameras.

The cameras with the restricted shutter speed range aren't of a lesser quality and benefit from the fact that the simple shutters are usually still working well after decades. Post war cameras have the benefit of coated lenses.

There are bewildering different combinations of lenses and shutters, though don't dismiss the Novar triplets, which when stopped down produce excellent images. The Nettar and Ikonta range overlap a lot, so there are Ikontas with Nettar lenses, for example.

Incidentally, I've never had a problem with the Zeiss leather bellows or stiff focusing, unlike other folding cameras.

The sample photos were all taken with Novar equipped cameras.

Nettar002.jpg

SalfordQuays_006.jpg

1160_010-10.jpg
 
The Ensign Selfix 820 would be my choice, it's a 6x9 format camera but has a cleverly designed mask shutters inside the film roll chambers, which when put in place convert the camera to a 6x6. http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Ensign_Selfix_8-20

The one with the Ross Xpres lens is the one to go for. As with any old folding camera, try to get one that works OK at all speeds, as the slow speeds tend to stick on unserviced cameras, plus the usual checks for light leaks in the bellows (the bellows on the 820 seem to survive quite well though), and the usual checks for scratches, haze and fungus on the lens, plus the condition of the metal bellows folding mechanism. Get a good one and it will be capable of producing some lovely looking photos, plus you get the 6x9 option, which gives huge negatives and lots of detail. Here's one taken with fine snow coming down (on Fuji 400H Pro):



Then one on a clearer day on Ilford XP2 400. Both images taken hand-held, probably at 1/100 second and home scanned on an Epson V600. Click on the image to view full size.

 
Last edited:
niko said:
funny enough ive just ordered a Isolette ii with apotar in an attempt to find a medium format camera thats small, so I will actually carry it. my other stuff ended up just left at home
Click to expand...
That was my problem. I had a mamiya 645 and a rb67 and ended up rarely using them. Ended up selling them and buying a Leica m2!
 
stevelmx5 said:
so long as you don’t mind guessing the focus!
Click to expand...


If it's nearish set it to 10ft. If it's farish set it to between 30ft and infinity. If you want to use a wide aperture use an accessory rangefinder.

Works for me.

img733 by Simon, on Flickr
 
stevelmx5 said:
The first medium format camera I used was an Agfa Isolette ii. I can’t remember what lens it was but it delivered excellent results, so long as you don’t mind guessing the focus!
Click to expand...
My first 'proper' camera was a 1930s folding Agfa (I don't know the model) with half the folding viewfinder missing.

Distances: I guess them by imagining myself lying on the ground and counting how many of me would be required to make the distance. I am very slightly short of two metres tall and with the aperture set to f/8 or smaller the depth of field accommodates the slight error.
 
Last edited:
As we are sharing.... :D

Ross Ensign 16-20 on Portra 160 (2 shots stitched)

Catbells-Pano by Andy, on Flickr

Ross Ensign 12-20 on Fomapan 100, coincidentally the loco was built in 1954 the same year as the camera, fun fact :)

Weardale-Railway4 by Andy, on Flickr

And lastly the 820, massive camera, fairly heavy but a fabulous lens. Acros 100.

Mow-Cop1 by Andy, on Flickr
 
simon ess said:
Good to see the plucky Brit holding it's own against the might of the German cameras
Click to expand...

Yeh, they are a series of excellent cameras. It's just a shame that in true British style they decided that photographers wouldn't take to the new 35mm craze and that medium format was still going to rule the roost. Their only concession was to make the 16-20 as small as the Leica cameras but sadly it didn't work and they went bust in the early sixties.
 
I believe Ensign stopped camera production around the mid to late 50s, with remaining stocks apparently being sold off via Dixons at discounted prices (how the wheel turns!). However I believe they produced some of the best post-war folding 120 cameras when you look at the sharpness and quality of the images they gave.

I think it's a bit of a shame that people seem to coo over the equivalent foreign cameras of the time (possibly based on pre-war reputation?) when British firms like Ensign and Kershaw produced some excellent cameras (for their time) in the 1950s. As 50s folding cameras go, I'd much rather own and use something like a Kershaw Curlew than a Zeiss, Voigtlander or Agfa of similar design and era. Sadly, an affordable mint-condition Curlew has eluded me so far (and hope is fading!), so I'll carry on using my Ensign Selfix 820 and 1620 and count myself lucky to have found out what good little cameras they can be. :)
 
Last edited:
I believe Ensign had stopped camera production around the mid to late 50s,

Just checked and they stopped making cameras in 1961, the year I was born, it's obviously karma.:)
 
Andysnap said:
I believe Ensign had stopped camera production around the mid to late 50s,

Just checked and they stopped making cameras in 1961, the year I was born, it's obviously karma.:)
Click to expand...
That's interesting, where did you find that? The info I found (albeit a couple of years ago) suggested mid-50s onwards for the cessation of the 120 folders, with the company itself eventually petering out around the early 60s.

Edit: Just found this, which appears to announce the demise (or imminent demise) of their camera making in 1958 https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Johnsons_of_Hendon/HB_Ensign_History.html

If the company eventually disappeared around 1961 it would seem likely that camera manufacture ceased some time before that, unless they had a change of plan after that article was published?
 
Last edited:
Apparently they moved in 1955 to the Ross factory in Clapham Common where they made cameras, lenses and binoculars but had definitely closed in 1961, it may be that they had finished making cameras before 1961 and were still making lenses or binoculars.

http://www.ensign.demon.co.uk/ensigncamerapage.htm

It's an interesting history of a very old company.
 
Sadly, whenever it happened, it had the same end result, as with so many old well-established British manufacturing companies. :( Ensign were prolific camera makes over the years, I have an Ensign box camera (in blue) and an Ensign Midget folding camera, which is a tiny little thing about the size of a packet of 10 (non-kingsize) cigarettes, which was apparently popular with ladies of that era as it could easily be carried in a handbag, much like a small mobile phone is these days.

As you say, it appears Ross Ensign's failure to adopt 35mm film, combined with looming competition from Japanese imports (the import restrictions on which were being lifted in the late 50s/early 60s) sealed their fate. As an old advertisement I've got from the late 1950s said: The Yashicas are coming! Then add the Canons, the Nikons, the Minoltas, Pentax, Olympus, et al and even if Ensign had gone with 35mm I doubt they'd have survived the onslaught of mass-produced electronic goods from overseas.
 
Mr Badger said:
Sadly, whenever it happened, it had the same end result, as with so many old well-established British manufacturing companies. :( Ensign were prolific camera makes over the years, I have an Ensign box camera (in blue) and an Ensign Midget folding camera, which is a tiny little thing about the size of a packet of 10 (non-kingsize) cigarettes, which was apparently popular with ladies of that era as it could easily be carried in a handbag, much like a small mobile phone is these days.

As you say, it appears Ross Ensign's failure to adopt 35mm film, combined with looming competition from Japanese imports (the import restrictions on which were being lifted in the late 50s/early 60s) sealed their fate. As an old advertisement I've got from the late 1950s said: The Yashicas are coming! Then add the Canons, the Nikons, the Minoltas, Pentax, Olympus, et al and even if Ensign had gone with 35mm I doubt they'd have survived the onslaught of mass-produced electronic goods from overseas.
Click to expand...

Same a the British motorcycle industry...stuck in the past and thought the public would always buy British and wouldn't mind an oil leak.
 
And machine tools.

The attitude seemed to be, "We supplied the Empire dammit. We know best."

But they didn't.
 
simon ess said:
And machine tools.

The attitude seemed to be, "We supplied the Empire dammit. We know best."

But they didn't.
Click to expand...

The Royal Enfield 350cc and 500cc we just thought it was an OK bike i.e. nothing special......well it is still made in India today and the Indians love it as it's simple and erm bullet proof.
 
Last edited:
simon ess said:
And machine tools.

The attitude seemed to be, "We supplied the Empire dammit. We know best."

But they didn't.
Click to expand...
And when we designed quality we could not make it well enough. Ariel Foursquare, for example.
 
..and you have to be old enough to remember initially the rubbish the Japanese were sending over here e.g. cheap HS drill that bent we used to call them Jap crap.....but they pulled their socks up and dunno whether they banned exports of rubbish or UK importers stopped supplying them.
 
Much as I like my Zeiss folders I have to say that the Ensigns are better made, or do I mean over-engineered?

I confess to having cannibalised an Ensign to make a 6x9 pinhole camera, I don't know what the model was, but the two things which impressed were the die cast camera body and the fact that the camera is held together with screws so it was quite easy to dismantle and work on. On the other hand, the Zeiss folders are made from pressed steel and largely riveted together.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top