Zeiss Ikonta 6*6 folder double exposure interlock

ChrisR

ChrisR

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I have a Zeiss Ikonta 6*6 folder with un-coupled rangefinder, that was my father's. I thought it was a 524/12, but that doesn't appear to exist, so perhaps it's a 524/16, except it has a Nova-Anastigmat f/3.5 lens and a Prontor-S shutter (to 1/300). I just had it serviced by Miles Whitehead, and took it out with a roll of TriX today (probably a bit on the bright side for ISO 400 film with only 1/300!). I had to wind on past the first 3 shots, as it was a film I'd taken out and re-spooled before sending it off. The first shot didn't work, though I didn't realise it at the time (I thought I'd taken it... pity as it was, obviously, a great shot!). When trying to set up the second shot, I realised that the shutter was still set. This time it fired nicely. Next shot (after winding on), the body shutter release not giving any joy at all. I had to figure out the linkages, and the next 3 shots I could only take by flipping the last release lever on the lens. Then all of a sudden a couple of shots worked.

When winding on, there's definitely a point at which something clicks. So I'm guessing that I'm being frustrated by the double exposure prevention being over-enthusiastic. Is there anything obvious I could be doing wrong? If it's user error rather than the camera, I'd rather find out before contacting Miles!
 
Let me check mine but I think there is a bit that gets stuck sometimes.

You can always override it by using the shutter release at the lens, though the ergonomics get a bit tricky even with two fully functional hands.
 
This rings a bell with me when I've used my Balda Baldix folder 6x6.

The shutter has to be cocked and the film wound on but there is a point during the winding sequence that sets the leverage for the shutter release.

If that sequence isn't followed correctly then the linkage doesn't set and the shutter release button will not depress, leaving the only option being to trip the shutter using the lever on the side of the shutter or winding the film on further to set the linkage but this means wasted frames.

I get the impression that the mechanism is very similar to what you have on the Ikonta.

I'll take a look at the Balda later this evening (I've literally just got home!) and see if i can explain clearly how it functions correctly.
 
One of the manuals I looked at (I don't have the right one for this exact camera) suggested that it didn't matter if the shutter was cocked before or after film wind... except at 1/300 when it had to done a special way (that I've temporarily forgotten). I have been winding on straight after taking the shot, and cocking the shutter just before the shot.
 
ChrisR said:
One of the manuals I looked at (I don't have the right one for this exact camera) suggested that it didn't matter if the shutter was cocked before or after film wind... except at 1/300 when it had to done a special way (that I've temporarily forgotten). I have been winding on straight after taking the shot, and cocking the shutter just before the shot.
Click to expand...

OK this is how the Balda works,...I've physically got it here and tried it, so perhaps the Ikonta works the same.

The shutter can be cocked either before OR after the film has been wound on.

The winding knob can be wound back &nd forth ( clockwise and anticlockwise) in small increments( ie like a quarter turn if wished) however by doing this the film will wind and wind until it reaches its end without the shutter release mechanism ever setting itself.

It is imperative therefore that after firing the shutter, that the winding knob is turned anti clockwise until it will turn no more, then clockwise, which advances the film one frame, until it will turn no more.
Almost at the end of it's clockwise turn, there is a distinct click which sets the shutter release mechanism.

The shutter now needs to be cocked on the lens if not already done so and hey presto the shutter button will depress.

Then repeat the process
 
I've not seen anything like that in any of the Ikonta manuals... you can merrily wind the film right through without firing a shot, you have to watch the red window to know when to stop. But at some point in the wind, there is a click, presumably the interlock mechanism setting itself. I'm guessing this didn't happen properly, but still don't know if it was something I did. :(
 
Have you got this figured Chris?....I would be surprised if it turns out to be a camera fault after being serviced by Miles although of course anything is possible.
 
Well, I'm now pretty sure it's a double exposure interlock issue, but I've no clue whether it's something I did that caused it, rather than a fault. If I don't get any further by tomorrow I'll email Miles.
 
kendo1 said:
There's an article about the Iconta 532-16 which describes shutter/wind on and 1/300 procedure.
http://elekm.net/pages/cameras/sikonta532-16.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks Ken, there are clearly many differences between that camera and mine (which doesn't have the auto space feature, for example), but maybe there is some link here. However, I'm struggling to work out how tensioning the shutter after setting the shutter speed would affect the interlock. It's hard to remember, but I think there were several exposures with the same shutter speed (from 1/100 to 1/300), and some of these could be fired with the nearest lever to the lens, but not the shutter button.

I'll email Miles tomorrow I think. At the moment it's wound on to frame 10 and un-tensioned, so I have 3 frames to experiment with!
 
It doesn't there isn't a direct link between the shutter and the interlock. The interlock only effects the top plate shutter release, there is probably just some gunk blocking the interlock. I know mine worked better after I dropped it not that I'd recommend that as a maintenance regime. Mine only works intermittently and I try not to rely on it but luckily (or not) it tends to freeze in the open position.
 
Steven has pointed me to the Ikonta III manual (for a similar but slightly different camera). It says somewhere: "It does not matter whether the shutter is wound first or whether the shutter speed is set first. The exposure time is set before the shutter is wound only when the shortest shutter speed (1/500 of a sec) of the Synchro-Compur is the used [sic]". Slightly confusing wording! This camera has a Prontor-S shutter, only going to 1/300, and as Steven says there doesn't seem to be any back linkage to explain what I'm seeing. Ah well.
 
I've checked my 524 and does exactly what yours is doing. I've never got it properly looked at but I'm certain that it's caused by gunk stopping the interlock. If you give the little red plate in the top (that indicates the interlock status) a prod with a cocktail stick it'll usually free up the mechanism, not for long though.
 
Miles said to finish the film and if I'm still dissatisfied, to send it back. Took it out to shoot some idiot whose 16-plate car is stuck up to its door sills in the local ford (!), and I could here the mechanism for the interlock working each time as I wound on. Perfect. Now what, shoot another film??? :runaway:
 
steveo_mcg said:
Once it's unloaded you should be able to dry test it.
Click to expand...

Ah that's good, I had assumed it must be the film movement doing it, but now you mention it I remember a weird utube silent video of a bloke going through the motions on his folder, and he did demo the interlock with no film in!
 
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