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Has to be one of the best posts I've read on here!
I agree mate, will be taking a lot of notice of that tbh.
and help to keep the site free for all
Basics...........
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I agree mate, will be taking a lot of notice of that tbh.
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Has to be one of the best posts I've read on here!
Though, not that much notice...I agree mate, will be taking a lot of notice of that tbh.
I thought you'd decided on a 5d? Well you'll want 2
and a 24-70 2.8, and a 70-200 2.8, a 50mm and a short tele prime and 2 flashguns, then you'll have redundancy in the smallest amount of kit you can get away with.You can hire some or all of it, but it'll not make any difference if you take no notice of the rest of that post. It's not about cameras and lenses, it's about what you see
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So what do you guys think would make a good camera/lens combo?
That is relative to the user really and unfortunately only you can answer what is best for you.
Personally we use 60D's and 17-50mm 2.8 , 50mm 1.4 and 1.8 and 70-200 2.8's and they work well together.
But body wise thats because I love the way the Canon bodies feel and operate, others love Nikons.
OP
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Though, not that much notice...
I thought you'd decided on a 5d? Well you'll want 2
You can hire some or all of it, but it'll not make any difference if you take no notice of the rest of that post. It's not about cameras and lenses, it's about what you see
I did take notice mate, but as said I do need a camera because mine is on the blink. I'm doing this for free, so I'm not about to go and buy/hire two of everything!! Just not feasible.
OP
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That is relative to the user really and unfortunately only you can answer what is best for you.
Personally we use 60D's and 17-50mm 2.8 , 50mm 1.4 and 1.8 and 70-200 2.8's and they work well together.
But body wise thats because I love the way the Canon bodies feel and operate, others love Nikons.
I only know my camera so I guess it will be a canon. I only said 5d because it's full frame which I though would be better for the low light shots. I am open to suggestions.
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I did take notice mate, but as said I do need a camera because mine is on the blink. I'm doing this for free, so I'm not about to go and buy/hire two of everything!! Just not feasible.
You really need to re think this. What happens if your kit develops a fault or gets broken as in this case
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=509415
How are you going to show at family occasions than?
MWHCVT
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I only know my camera so I guess it will be a canon. I only said 5d because it's full frame which I though would be better for the low light shots. I am open to suggestions.
You've not really said what your budget is though unless I've missed it...
I'm mean are you looking to spend £500 or £3500 as its going to make a massive difference on the we might recommend, personally I don't shoot weddings to much stress for my liking, don't get me wrong I've shot 3 or 4 as the official photographer for friends but I normally try all I can to convince them to pay a pro
The last one I shot with my 5D3 with as a really worse case backup of my 450D that wasn't needed thankfully...a couple of flash guns, a 24-70/2.8 70-200/2.8 and a 85/1.8 that said I didn't use the 85mm for more than a couple of photos as it really didn't suit me on the day but it may suit others that little list is close to £4-5000 if brought and if rented as the last two lens were in my case it's still getting on for hire fees of 3-500 for a weekend but it would be useless you hiring kit for one weekend to shoot a wedding as there is nobody on this forum that would tell you that it was a good idea to hire a load of kit you've no experience of and never used to shoot one of the most stressful high pressure days you could ever want to shoot...
So in short please....what do you want to spend?
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I only know my camera so I guess it will be a canon. I only said 5d because it's full frame which I though would be better for the low light shots. I am open to suggestions.
I think from my point of view and using the 60D's I am comfortable using them upto 6400 as I only shoot raw in weddings then do all the work in lightroom to tidy up so the noise isnt a problem to me.
The 5D3 is excellent, but also costs an arm and a leg which is a problem.
I generally think that an excellent lens can make up for most short comings that can be had with a crop sensor, obviously for outright quality there is no chance that my 60d can compete with a 5D3 but then again, the clients have never complained so i'm sticking with them for now
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Some thoughts.
Think of photography as.
#1 Developing an eye (as some the posts above indicate) to recognise "moments", subjects and light. This is probly the hardest thing to learn
#2 The technicalities - the abilitily to get a "correctly" exposed and sharp (if that is what is needed) no matter what the subject or lighting conditions. Lots of books and tutorials around on this. It also inludes post processing.
If you do not have a "client" then thats about it, however if you do have a "client" then;
#3 Always meet (or exceed) the clients needs - no matter what the circumstances are.
If you accept a job failure to deliver is not an option except in exceptional circumstances (like you have an accident and cannot attend). If you cannot deliver then do not accept a job.
I am a hobbyst who sometimes has "clients" so that means on a client shoot I will have backup gear. Most of the time you will not need it (although a second camera can help a lot) however when you do you will be very glad (this is from personal experience when my main lens (standard zoom) failed)
I normally cover events (not weddings) with a 5D and 40D - a standard zoom and a bunch of fast ~f2 primes (35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 135mm, and a 24mm f2.8) and if I feel I need a flashgun I will have 2x580 ex's
Think of photography as.
#1 Developing an eye (as some the posts above indicate) to recognise "moments", subjects and light. This is probly the hardest thing to learn
#2 The technicalities - the abilitily to get a "correctly" exposed and sharp (if that is what is needed) no matter what the subject or lighting conditions. Lots of books and tutorials around on this. It also inludes post processing.
If you do not have a "client" then thats about it, however if you do have a "client" then;
#3 Always meet (or exceed) the clients needs - no matter what the circumstances are.
If you accept a job failure to deliver is not an option except in exceptional circumstances (like you have an accident and cannot attend). If you cannot deliver then do not accept a job.
I am a hobbyst who sometimes has "clients" so that means on a client shoot I will have backup gear. Most of the time you will not need it (although a second camera can help a lot) however when you do you will be very glad (this is from personal experience when my main lens (standard zoom) failed)
I normally cover events (not weddings) with a 5D and 40D - a standard zoom and a bunch of fast ~f2 primes (35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 135mm, and a 24mm f2.8) and if I feel I need a flashgun I will have 2x580 ex's
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I appreciate you need a camera, but as per that post you're taking notice of, which camera is largely irrelevant.I did take notice mate, but as said I do need a camera because mine is on the blink. I'm doing this for free, so I'm not about to go and buy/hire two of everything!! Just not feasible.
A 40d would do and it's a bargain. Lenses are much more important, 3rd party 2.8 zooms?
You can't afford to buy 2 of everything, you should consider renting.
You're getting the benefit of the doubt because you've said you're spending a year preparing, however a simple rule of thumb is:
If you have to ask what gear you need to take on a job, you're not capable of the job. And another:
Weddings without backups, just isn't an option.
And now for the blunt bit that'll either make you hate me or very grateful I give honest advice:
Don't be flattered by the 'she insists I shoot it, and won't hear of any alternative!
She has no idea that there's a massive difference between capturing landscapes and shooting people. There's some good stuff on your Flickr but nothing to suggest you'd be a decent people photographer. She wants you because you've got a pro camera and you're free :shrug:
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With respect I think we are going round in circles. There has been some very good advice on equipment etc. On here you need to bear in mind who you are receiving advice off. Professionals like Phil and Matt have been there, done that and probably have numerous t-shirts to go with it. They are advising you based on their extensive experience to make sure nothing goes wrong on the day and you are not left with an unhappy bride. If you do not want to get this involved and take the risk of something going wrong, thats up to you and good luck (don't expect much sympathy or support from the pros).
Now for some reason you have not told us what your budget is, therefore you have been advised accordingly and unfortunately none of this comes cheap and because you cant repeat the day, you need backups. Also with my experience shooting at parties, it is quicker to grab your other body rather than swap lenses.
Now think about the day and what you will need.
Most officiants wont allow flash during the ceremony, therefore you will need either a large aperture (F/2.8) or have a body with high ISO capability (All this has been covered earlier in the thread). It is better to have better glass, somebody once told me a camera is for now, a lens is for life. Outside you may have difficult shadows to deal with, therfore you need to learn to shape and fill light using reflectors and speedlites. (Something I am doing at the moment, believe me it isnt as easy as it seems)
Now for whatever reason you keep coming back to the same point and everyone has been very patient and given you a lot of leeway (in particular Phil V ) Why not get yourself booked on a workshop and see what is involved and what equipment is needed for yourself. Even better see if you can help out (carry bags) at a real wedding, that way you will see the challenges involved.
They are advising you based on their extensive experience to make sure nothing goes wrong on the day and you are not left with an unhappy bride. If you do not want to get this involved and take the risk of something going wrong, thats up to you and good luck (don't expect much sympathy or support from the pros).Now for some reason you have not told us what your budget is, therefore you have been advised accordingly and unfortunately none of this comes cheap and because you cant repeat the day, you need backups. Also with my experience shooting at parties, it is quicker to grab your other body rather than swap lenses.
Now think about the day and what you will need.
Most officiants wont allow flash during the ceremony, therefore you will need either a large aperture (F/2.8) or have a body with high ISO capability (All this has been covered earlier in the thread). It is better to have better glass, somebody once told me a camera is for now, a lens is for life. Outside you may have difficult shadows to deal with, therfore you need to learn to shape and fill light using reflectors and speedlites. (Something I am doing at the moment, believe me it isnt as easy as it seems)
Now for whatever reason you keep coming back to the same point and everyone has been very patient and given you a lot of leeway (in particular Phil V
) Why not get yourself booked on a workshop and see what is involved and what equipment is needed for yourself. Even better see if you can help out (carry bags) at a real wedding, that way you will see the challenges involved.
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Thanks Chris.
As always we end up hoping the advice will be useful to someone.
Where abouts are you Chad?
big soft moose
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It would be interesting to know what sorts of shots you are planning. You can cover a wedding with a 300D ( I know for a fact because ive done it back in the day) but you need to play to the camera's strengths.
the 300D really struggles in low light - and you can expect lots of noise at high iso (anything above 400) , so shots inside the church are pretty much a non starter, and candids at the reception will require flash
Group shots/couple shots outside in bright light you'll get away with , but you need to think about a wet weather alternative.
As has been suggesed getting a more capable camera (even if its only a 40D or so) will make a big difference , then keep the 300D for back up (after fixing the intermittent fault)
Lens wise - at an absolute minimum i'd say get a 50mm f1.8, but really i'd say consider something like a 17-50 f2.8 (with the kit lens as back up) - if you can stretch to it hiring a 70-200 f2.8 or an 85 f1.8 would be a good idea as well (as you are doing it free could you suggest that the happy couple pay for this hire - as it will still be a lot less than paying a tog)
(thinking you don't need backups because its free for family and friends is a mistake - even family will get seriously peeved if they don't get any pictures because your camera broke - you don't need to spend a fortune but you do need to have something)
As well as the kit question, the other thing you should be reading up on/practicing is how to arrange/control/pose groups and couples etc, - the personal communications skills side is about 80% of a succesful shoot. Also be aware that if the guests know you this will be considerably harder because they won't give you the respect thats usually accorded to "the photographer" because they'll think that "oh its just chad with his camera" (that will be particularly true for uncle bobs, many of whom may have more upto date kit than what you are shooting with)
the 300D really struggles in low light - and you can expect lots of noise at high iso (anything above 400) , so shots inside the church are pretty much a non starter, and candids at the reception will require flash
Group shots/couple shots outside in bright light you'll get away with , but you need to think about a wet weather alternative.
As has been suggesed getting a more capable camera (even if its only a 40D or so) will make a big difference , then keep the 300D for back up (after fixing the intermittent fault)
Lens wise - at an absolute minimum i'd say get a 50mm f1.8, but really i'd say consider something like a 17-50 f2.8 (with the kit lens as back up) - if you can stretch to it hiring a 70-200 f2.8 or an 85 f1.8 would be a good idea as well (as you are doing it free could you suggest that the happy couple pay for this hire - as it will still be a lot less than paying a tog)
(thinking you don't need backups because its free for family and friends is a mistake - even family will get seriously peeved if they don't get any pictures because your camera broke - you don't need to spend a fortune but you do need to have something)
As well as the kit question, the other thing you should be reading up on/practicing is how to arrange/control/pose groups and couples etc, - the personal communications skills side is about 80% of a succesful shoot. Also be aware that if the guests know you this will be considerably harder because they won't give you the respect thats usually accorded to "the photographer" because they'll think that "oh its just chad with his camera" (that will be particularly true for uncle bobs, many of whom may have more upto date kit than what you are shooting with)
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Hi chad, just thought I'll share this with you. I was exactly in your position, taking nice not wow shots and because my friend knew I had a decent camera voted me to shoot his wedding renewal vows. I hate people photography, there is a world of difference between landscapes and other types of photography and shooting a wedding with people. The togs who charge do for a reason and IMHO deserve every penny, it's very stressful and you have to know what your doing. I didn't really, I just had a vague idea what to do. I begged not to do it but didn't want to let my friend down. Literally between a rock and a hard place. My friend said he would sort me out cash wise. Took the day off, drove a round trip of 50 miles, waited an hour for the group to turn up. Took my shots, including the church where YOU WILL struggle with low light and no flash. On return home after barely an hour sent shots via email. My friend replied 'nice' and to this day that's all I've heard from him. He refuses to return my call. So not only did I stress unnecessary I lost money in petrol and time to do something I didn't want and enjoy. Not only that I lost a friend who now thinks 'god he's rubbish at photography'
Do the job but go into it with your eyes open , not because you have a big camera with no knowledge behind it.
My best advice would be shoot as a guest and give these as a bonus to the bride. Less stress. Good luck.
Do the job but go into it with your eyes open , not because you have a big camera with no knowledge behind it.
My best advice would be shoot as a guest and give these as a bonus to the bride. Less stress. Good luck.
Richard, Just get out practicing and practice some more. Get some family and friends to model for you.
Learn to critique your own images. Ask yourself what you like about them, what you don't like and what you will do differently.
Then practice some more and do the things that you would do differently.
Don't ask family to critique them, they will love them anyway and you wont learn anything.
When you're feeling confidant post some here for critique, it might be harsh, but you will learn from it. then practice some more..
The more you practice, the more you will experiment and learn new things.
You don't need new equipment for this..
As for the event you have planned, there is a small chance that your only body will fail - even if you purchase the £2.5k body. How do you plan to deal with the situation if it does fail? you need to think about that, I imagine this event cant be held again for a retake?
Learn to critique your own images. Ask yourself what you like about them, what you don't like and what you will do differently.
Then practice some more and do the things that you would do differently.
Don't ask family to critique them, they will love them anyway and you wont learn anything.
When you're feeling confidant post some here for critique, it might be harsh, but you will learn from it. then practice some more..
The more you practice, the more you will experiment and learn new things.
You don't need new equipment for this..
As for the event you have planned, there is a small chance that your only body will fail - even if you purchase the £2.5k body. How do you plan to deal with the situation if it does fail? you need to think about that, I imagine this event cant be held again for a retake?
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And don't underestimate how dark churches can be, the last one I did (it is rare) I was at ISO 6400, F2 and getting 1/15th to 1/30th.
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Thanks for all your help guys. I am listening and hopefully learning.
Found out some new info today. It's not a church wedding, it's being held in a manor house/hotel with gardens and my initial impression is that there is quite a lot of light.
We are arranging a visit soon to view and take some sample shots in the areas where they will be. It sounds like the people there are really helpful and will show us the best spots.
I also found out today that I can borrow a camera from a good friend as backup, but I will be upgrading mine also.
Progress I think!!
Found out some new info today. It's not a church wedding, it's being held in a manor house/hotel with gardens and my initial impression is that there is quite a lot of light.
We are arranging a visit soon to view and take some sample shots in the areas where they will be. It sounds like the people there are really helpful and will show us the best spots.
I also found out today that I can borrow a camera from a good friend as backup, but I will be upgrading mine also.
Progress I think!!
big soft moose
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get your upgrade asap and also practice with the one you'll be borrowing (assuming its not the same model) - a wedding is not a good time to be hunting for the right setting on an unfamiliar camera
Ref the venue- garden shots are all well and good, but you need an inside contingency as well in case the weather troll decides to pee on you ... and inside light will probably mean flash even in a reasonably lit venue
Ref the venue- garden shots are all well and good, but you need an inside contingency as well in case the weather troll decides to pee on you ... and inside light will probably mean flash even in a reasonably lit venue
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And bear in mind some officiant can be awkward on the day, purely because they can. So may not allow flash during the ceremony
big soft moose
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almost certainly ( I meant for shots at the reception) - shots during the service need a fast lens and/or high iso capability