Buying grey imports

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fstorm

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I'm on the market for a Olympus EM5 ii. There are a few UK based companies that sell grey imports. For example the EM1 is being sold for £515 and the EM5ii with 12-40 2.8 lens for a tad over £1000.

Since they've already been imported, there's no more tax to be paid.

What are your thoughts and experiences ?

Thanks
 
fstorm said:
Since they've already been imported, there's no more tax to be paid.
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That may not be true ... normally in these circumstances YOU are still the importer, be sure to check all of the small print and if necessary check by 'phone e.g.
Please note that by making a purchase on this website you will be acting as the importer of the product for all purposes including all customs regulations,copyright and trademark laws.You accept that the role of HDEW Cameras is limited to sourcing products and making them available for you to import directly from the country of origin.By purchasing a product through this website you authorise us to make arrangements for clearance of customs on your behalf for the products you have ordered.
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(Bold mine)
 
IMO as long as the company you buy from offers to pick up the taxes and charges, go for it. HDEW are ok in that respect.
 
JYC said:
IMO as long as the company you buy from offers to pick up the taxes and charges, go for it. HDEW are ok in that respect.
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See above, the liability is yours not HDEW.
 
@gramps I do not know of anyone charged for duties using HDEW, although I accept your point about the fine points of the T&Cs. Maybe worth giving them a call to check.
 
JYC said:
@gramps I do not know of anyone charged for duties using HDEW, although I accept your point about the fine points of the T&Cs. Maybe worth giving them a call to check.
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I don't either but then I've never spoken to all of their customers but let's do a scenario.
Let's say they have a VAT inspection and details of all of the people they have dealt as 'agents' for imported equipment are followed up ... those importers could well find themselves on the wrong side of HMRC.
I am not saying that you will get charged the taxes, what I am saying is that the liability for taxes and any 'difficulties' over the importing of goods remain with you as the importer ... many people still do not realise/care that this is the case.
 
Another vote here for HDEW. Excellent company and service IME.
 
HDEW are no longer cheap. e.g. 5Ds is £500 cheaper at Simply Electronics than HDEW. Even if you pay the VAT from Simply it will still be £120 cheaper. Look at the 5D3 price and then there is only £50 difference. You have to shop around to find the best deal and then decide if "Grey" is what you want.
 
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I always debate over buying grey, never taken the plunge yet. The thread above this one puts me off, got a soft 90mm and he's having trouble sending it back. Then again I read lots of threads where people have bought with no issues. Hmmmm.
 
If you're buying grey look carefully into their returns policy
 
Get a VAT receipt with your purchase and then you have evidence that you were charged, and paid, the required taxes.
 
Theres a lot of jumping to conclusions in this thread.. I cant see anywhere that the OP is buying online (could be ?) ..he just says UK company...

If its a company wiht UK stock and you buy it and get a proper reciept then you wont be charged any import
if its a uk company that hasnt got uk stock and imports it on your order then they are acting as an importer for you and then you would more than likely be liable for the fees..

however.. back in the real world. given the OPs question.. I cant see any problem in buying from uk company wiht uk stock.. nobody will come knocking at your door for import duty..

far too many drama queens on here :)
 
tdodd said:
Get a VAT receipt with your purchase and then you have evidence that you were charged, and paid, the required taxes.
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Not really, Customs Duty is also payable and...
Your goods may be seized if you don’t follow the rules. You may also be fined or prosecuted.
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Another point is, just because they have a co.uk addy, don't take their word for it. There are plenty `pretending` to be UK based when in reality they aren't.
 
Nothing wrong with it at all imo, I've bought plenty of lenses (in person) from abroad and brought them back into the UK, it's just a lens. Similarly used DigitalRev in the past who offer to refund any customs charges, packages are always marked up correctly so you aren't doing anything wrong.
 
I rock up to a shop in the UK, you know bricks and mortar. Check the goods, happy with it. I pay.

I use a credit card. I get the goods with a 3 year warranty.

There are a few UK based 'shops' operating out of eBay that purport to have stock at hand, a few percent cheaper, but more of a risk I feel.
 
im not going to get into the rights and wrongs of grey importing but i just got a 7dii for £837 cheapest i could find in the uk was £1299 thats near on a £500 pounds saving
 
good to have the choice imo - and as above £500 is one heck of a saving...

On the other hand is nice to have peace of mind - you pays your money...
 
Justa, that just shows how much markup some of these companies are selling these gadgets for.

I'm getting close on deciding to buying the new kit. Need to choose between the EM-5 mk2 and EM-1.
It's very likely to be grey, as the savings are substantial, 40% off UK list and 10% more than the ebay 2nd hand price.
 
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fstorm said:
Justa, that just shows how much markup some of these companies are selling these gadgets for.

I'm getting close on deciding to buying the new kit. Need to choose between the EM-5 mk2 and EM-1.
It's very likely to be grey, as the savings are substantial, 40% off UK list and 10% more than the ebay 2nd hand price.
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I don't blame u - I would be too !
 
A thought occurred to me today. A few of these importers have a transferable 3 year warranty. Lasts longer (1-2years) than manufacturers' warranties and if you have a private sale, you can sell it on with warranty.

That's quite good if you're buying a used camera.
 
Recently bought a lens in the PT classifieds. Only a month or three old and it was very easy to get the remaining 2 years+ of warranty transferred to my name by Panamoz.
 
Friend of mind got a lens from HDEW, it had a spec of dust inside and he was not happy, they collected it and sent out a brand new one within the week! Whats not too like. I had one from Jessops that took four weeks to resolve!
 
Make sure you're well versed in their return policy by the way. Having a nightmare with digitalrev
 
gramps said:
Not really, Customs Duty is also payable and...
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So if you've got a UK VAT receipt, why would there be import duty payable? Just think about it ;)
 
I called HDEW yesterday - They pay the VAT when it's imported. They will issue a bona fide VAT receipt on purchase.
The price quoted is the final price. UK taxes fully paid.

Only issue is that they're not able to get the E-M5 mk2 12-40 f2.8 kit. They can supply the E-M1 12-40 though for £950, about £500 less than the cheapest official import. Also for reference, Panamoz is selling the E-M1 and 12-40 for £990 and the E-M5 mk2 with 12-40mm for £1025.
 
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fstorm said:
I called HDEW yesterday - They pay the VAT when it's imported. They will issue a bona fide VAT receipt on purchase.
The price quoted is the final price. UK taxes fully paid.
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I hate to knock HDEW, because they provide an excellent service and they support the local community, but I think we all know that something doesn't add up. There's really only one way to sell gear 15-20% cheaper than the mainstream retailers because, let's face it, if there's a legal tax dodge you can be absolutely certain that Amazon are using it.

Just my supposition of course, I have no direct evidence because I don't have access to their books. I would absolutely love it if someone from HDEW were to explain how much VAT they've paid this year and put my mind at rest, I really would. But until then, unfortunately I just can't avoid my concerns.
 
fstorm said:
I called HDEW yesterday - They pay the VAT when it's imported. They will issue a bona fide VAT receipt on purchase.
The price quoted is the final price. UK taxes fully paid.
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Did you ask them about their T&C's where they state that 'you' are the importer of the goods you buy?
 
gramps said:
Did you ask them about their T&C's where they state that 'you' are the importer of the goods you buy?
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They can put all sorts in the T&Cs, if you have got the UK VAT receipt for your product then who cares? It is not your issue and liability if a supplier provides you a false VAT receipt which is what you are suggesting they are doing. If you are so concerned about them why not report them to HMRC for an investigation, why not use VIES to check their VAT, etc....
 
StewartR said:
I hate to knock HDEW, because they provide an excellent service and they support the local community, but I think we all know that something doesn't add up. There's really only one way to sell gear 15-20% cheaper than the mainstream retailers because, let's face it, if there's a legal tax dodge you can be absolutely certain that Amazon are using it.

Just my supposition of course, I have no direct evidence because I don't have access to their books. I would absolutely love it if someone from HDEW were to explain how much VAT they've paid this year and put my mind at rest, I really would. But until then, unfortunately I just can't avoid my concerns.
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I have a partial or potential answer to this. If you take the street price of said item A from New York or Hong Kong, it is 1500USD. Same item from the same production line will be sold in the UK from official sources for 1500GBP, of which 1252GBP is the landed price but with 4.2% import tax and £1246 without import tax. Using 1.55USD to 1 GBP, you can see the street price in NYK or HKG is £967. Add £25 for UPS/DHL. You can see there is a profit to be made whilst complying with UK tax obligations.

gramps said:
Did you ask them about their T&C's where they state that 'you' are the importer of the goods you buy?
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Yes I did. I said something on the lines of "I'm worried about being chased by HMRC for the import tax and VAT, as it states on your website Ts&Cs that you are the facilitator and I'm the importer, I was told that was not the case. I suggested that they should change their Ts&Cs as it'll put some potential customers off".


Tax info from https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff/commodities/9006520000
 
dejongj said:
They can put all sorts in the T&Cs, if you have got the UK VAT receipt for your product then who cares? It is not your issue and liability if a supplier provides you a false VAT receipt which is what you are suggesting they are doing. If you are so concerned about them why not report them to HMRC for an investigation, why not use VIES to check their VAT, etc....
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Why would I want to contact HMRC or anyone else, I'm just responding to the O/P's issue with regard to taxes on 'grey' goods.
If you are the Importer (as HDEW say you are) you are required to pay VAT and Customs Duty, end of, anything else is just argument for arguments sake.
 
fstorm said:
Yes I did. I said something on the lines of "I'm worried about being chased by HMRC for the import tax and VAT, as it states on your website Ts&Cs that you are the facilitator and I'm the importer, I was told that was not the case. I suggested that they should change their Ts&Cs as it'll put some potential customers off".
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Interesting, if that's the case then that's fine ... though it does seem odd that the T&C's state it ... it will be interesting to see if it's removed now that it's been pointed out to them or whether it remains as it could, otherwise, appear to be a 'cop-out' clause.
 
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