Romanian fruit pickers

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Shall we get rid of them? Certainly, if you are Anna Firth, a potential torry candidate in the by-election. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/16/rochester-strood-byelection-tory-eu-migrants I just have one little issue with that - who would pick all that juicy fruit? Are the current benefit cheats going to do it? I'd love to hear that is the case but I just see the fruits rotting away...

Perhaps we should do away with Polish plumbers and builders, get rid of Spanish and French chefs and cull the German bankers. The whole lot. And don't forget to purge the academia too.
 
without getting into the nonsense, i'd just like clarification

Anna Firth said:
“a fruit picker in Romania”.
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If they are in Romania, what business is it of ours?
 
Whilst we're at it, should we make it illegal for Brits to live/work abroad?!!!


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Whilst we're at it, should we make it illegal for Brits to live/work abroad?!!!


Steve.
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IMHO if they hate the EU so much they should voluntarily stay away from the rest of it. Or did you mean "working" in Syria and Iraq?
 
daugirdas said:
IMHO if they hate the EU so much they should voluntarily stay away from the rest of it. Or did you mean "working" in Syria and Iraq?
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One doesn't have to follow the other,just because I have no wish to be ruled by an unelected Belgian (for example) beuraucrat,does not mean that I dislike Belgium.
 
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daugirdas said:
IMHO if they hate the EU so much they should voluntarily stay away from the rest of it. Or did you mean "working" in Syria and Iraq?
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Plenty of people work legitimately in Iraq and Syria.
Both countries are more than the sum total of what you read in the Daily Mail.
 
daugirdas said:
IMHO if they hate the EU so much they should voluntarily stay away from the rest of it. Or did you mean "working" in Syria and Iraq?
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No. I meant that if we were to ban anyone coming into this country, then we would also have to ban anyone from leaving.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
No. I meant that if we were to ban anyone coming into this country, then we would also have to ban anyone from leaving.


Steve.
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One doesn't need to follow the other. However I am sure the Brussels bureaucrats will rightly ban UK passport holders from schengen zone. Watch what happens to Switzerland if they fully implement their referendum results.
 
tiganut said:
One doesn't have to follow the other,just because I have no wish to be ruled by an unelected Belgian (for example) beuraucrat,does not mean that I dislike Belgium.
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You may be surprised but EU is not governed by Belgians alone. Perhaps you may wish to take a look at who is in the EC http://ec.europa.eu/commission_2010-2014/members/index_en.htm and the list oddly enough contains some UK nationals. Please get the facts right next time.
 
Speaking as a fruit picker myself where I used to work in countryside tomato greenhouse for the best part of two decades, the boss found himself taking on a migrant workforce towards the end because they ended up being more reliable workers than the local population and they could stay on site in little caravans. Let's face it, I did wonder how on earth I had managed to last out that long myself since the workplace was located right out in the middle of the Kent countryside where the nearest bus stop was 2 miles away, it was costing me more to do the 23 miles daily commute using the car from my town homeplace than what I was earning (I could only afford second hand bangers).
My employment only terminated when the place folded up four years ago, I'm currently a home carer looking after an elderly mother so I was able to do away with the car.
 
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daugirdas said:
You may be surprised but EU is not governed by Belgians alone. Perhaps you may wish to take a look at who is in the EC http://ec.europa.eu/commission_2010-2014/members/index_en.htm and the list oddly enough contains some UK nationals. Please get the facts right next time.
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You probably didn't notice the (for example) part of the post,if they are not elected by the population of the UK,they should have no say on what happens here.
 
tiganut said:
You probably didn't notice the (for example) part of the post,if they are not elected by the population of the UK,they should have no say on what happens here.
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In the same way the houses of lords are not elected and should have no say over what happens here. Likewise we don't pick the ministers in the government, so your point is kind of blunt.
 
tiganut said:
One doesn't have to follow the other,just because I have no wish to be ruled by an unelected Belgian (for example) beuraucrat,does not mean that I dislike Belgium.
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Quite agree. We need to get British people into British jobs in this country by cutting the incentives in non work before jobs are given to people born outwith the UK.
 
ST4 said:
Quite agree. We need to get British people into British jobs in this country by cutting the incentives in non work before jobs are given to people born outwith the UK.
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I agree about cutting incentives of not working and encouraging people to work. However you do realise, that unemployment is fairly low as it is, and there are always jobs where British candidates are not best or not even interested. In a way your comment sounds very nationalistic and discriminatory.

Just in case you didn't notice, the torries and UKIP had no chance at winning this election without an obvious scapegoat (the EU). What torries did over last 4 years very much destroyed the funding of science, public funding, RM was sold off at a loss and many families are significantly worse off than they were 10 years ago. So all they do is detract the attention by proclaiming hatred against non-UK nationals and that life will be better if we destroy the beast and win the second Trafalgar battle against the europeans. Well done, however things are about to get a lot more sour for the most (the non super wealthy)
 
daugirdas said:
I agree about cutting incentives of not working and encouraging people to work. However you do realise, that unemployment is fairly low as it is, and there are always jobs where British candidates are not best or not even interested. In a way your comment sounds very nationalistic and discriminatory.
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Nationalistic, yes. Discriminatory no. British born candidates should have priority over jobs here, it is how it works in other countries. Just why should people come here and get jobs that people born here should be doing. Cut the benefits crap out, we won't need droves of polish builders etc, our own people will be doing it.

daugirdas said:
Just in case you didn't notice, the torries and UKIP had no chance at winning this election without an obvious scapegoat (the EU). What torries did over last 4 years very much destroyed the funding of science, public funding, RM was sold off at a loss and many families are significantly worse off than they were 10 years ago. So all they do is detract the attention by proclaiming hatred against non-UK nationals and that life will be better if we destroy the beast and win the second Trafalgar battle against the europeans. Well done, however things are about to get a lot more sour for the most (the non super wealthy)
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Hasn't unemployment fallen to an all time low. I suspect UKIP and Tories will win and form a government, and thats a good thing for Britain and her people. University education is an optional activity, and should be wholly private sector funded. The government shouldn't pay for something that someone by choice chooses to do.
 
ST4 said:
Just why should people come here and get jobs that people born here should be doing. Cut the benefits crap out, we won't need droves of polish builders etc, our own people will be doing it.
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Because the brits are lazy. Youth of today seem to think they will walk out of school, college, university and waltz into a high paying cushy job.
They are not prepared to start at the bottom and work their way up the ladder.

I fully support the government and the caps they are imposing on benefits, but IMHO it's not enough. Under no uncertain terms should benefits pay more than any job, except for maybe the first 6 months when somebody is between jobs and needs some help with living costs.

Child benefit and child tax credits should be capped at 2 kids as well. Why should I pay to look after other peoples kids. Mine are expensive enough!
 
English fruit farmers couldn't manage without immigrant labour to pick their produce. The indigenous population of this country are too lazy and not prepared to work hard enough.
 
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Cartus said:
English fruit farmers couldn't manage without immigrant labour to pick their produce. The indigenous population of this country are too lazy and not prepared to work hard enough.
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Then they need to be made to.

ecoleman said:
Because the brits are lazy. Youth of today seem to think they will walk out of school, college, university and waltz into a high paying cushy job.
They are not prepared to start at the bottom and work their way up the ladder.

I fully support the government and the caps they are imposing on benefits, but IMHO it's not enough. Under no uncertain terms should benefits pay more than any job, except for maybe the first 6 months when somebody is between jobs and needs some help with living costs.

Child benefit and child tax credits should be capped at 2 kids as well. Why should I pay to look after other peoples kids. Mine are expensive enough!
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I agree with all, but the 1st para, just make them. They all think they should go to uni, colledge rather than just get a job and some money to their name. Cut the student loans for non essential/non accademic courses and all this free uni stuff, and that will drive kids into work
 
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Cartus said:
Stick or carrot?
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Both. No job after 12months. National service. The job is the carrot, it's money for like stuff they want. Houses , cars , food, that sort of thing.

We've got some apprectices in our place. They don't know how lucky they are. £14k/yr (some of them are just 17) with a job for life at the end. All they have to do is not screw up. The government needs to be insisting more private sector companies take on school leavers, not graduates to try get people into work sooner. The bulk of jobs in my area don't need degrees but we have a lot of graduates. All you get is people not working for longer in the present system. Take away student loans for non engineering, science and medicinal/legal degrees and hey presto the young will be in work sooner
 
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because one thread got closed another had to be opened i await the padlock icon.
 
Anyway, I'm still non the wiser as to what this has to do with Romanians picking fruit in their own country. Anna Firth did not say anything about kicking people out of our fields from what I read.
 
ST4 said:
Then they need to be made to.
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Democratic people republic of North Korea springs to mind :) I wouldn't be surprised if ukip are aiming for it.

ST4 said:
I agree with all, but the 1st para, just make them. They all think they should go to uni, colledge rather than just get a job and some money to their name. Cut the student loans for non essential/non accademic courses and all this free uni stuff, and that will drive kids into work
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So you are saying that only people from your background should be able to go to university, yet you publicly admit that it was a waste of time. Maybe you should stand as UKIP candidate, and we'd have more chance of beating you lot then :p
 
new2me said:
Anyway, I'm still non the wiser as to what this has to do with Romanians picking fruit in their own country. Anna Firth did not say anything about kicking people out of our fields from what I read.
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Guardian journalists couldn't afford to go to university?! :)
 
daugirdas said:
Democratic people republic of North Korea springs to mind :) I wouldn't be surprised if ukip are aiming for it.



So you are saying that only people from your background should be able to go to university, yet you publicly admit that it was a waste of time. Maybe you should stand as UKIP candidate, and we'd have more chance of beating you lot then :p
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University is optional. Can you please explain why we should pay for optional activities when those who want to do them cannot afford to pay for them themselves? I've been to uni, it's a waste of time. The government paid. They should have, might have deterred me from going. It's not served me 1 jot if gain other than costing me lost earnings and the exchequer lost tax. What's your point? Perhaps the UK government should pay for a new car for you. It's the same thing. Both optional to have on your part.

I'm voting Tory or UKIP for sure but I hope they form a government together, it'll be the greatest one since Thatchers smashed the Argies. They'll get us out if that EU farce and allow us to control our borders, our pollution targets and fiscal policy more effectively. It's good for Britain and her people.
 
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ST4 said:
I've been to uni, it's a waste of time.
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"A poor tradesman always blames his tools" can also relate to his education.
 
Fruit picking has always been done by migrant workers. It's seasonal work and Kent just can't support an industry of people who work very hard for 3 months of the year and then have nothing to do for 9 months. It used to be they would migrate from other counties, now it's other countries.

If we didn't import the labour, we'd import the fruit.

It's a cheap political point in an area that has neither money nor fruit. The Conservatives are running scared of getting a(nother) kicking from UKIP and seem to be trying to decide which of their candidates can look most like UKIP in a desperate attempt to get elected. It's not surprising they are talking about fruit at apple harvest time.
 
new2me said:
"A poor tradesman always blames his tools" can also relate to his education.
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Thing is. I do a reasonable job good company. A degree is completely superfluous to requirements and for the bulk of graduates out there.

I work with a lot of people. Some have degrees some don't, it makes not one jot of difference. Obviously scientific/legal/medicinal occupations this is different but these groups are a tiny minority of the workforce and uni graduate output it's safe to say many who go don't need to go and as such funding should be wholly Bourne by them rather than government supported student loans blah blah
 
I am saying nothing on the advice of my lawyer.......:D and she ain't one of them silly human rights lawyers that are screwing up common sense......
 
ST4 said:
Back to the article what's wrong with an Australian points based immigration system. Works well for them and our system is failing us.
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Well, (and I know you're going to hate this) it's illegal.
 
ST4 said:
Back to the article what's wrong with an Australian points based immigration system. Works well for them and our system is failing us.
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I have said that for years.... they, New Zealand, Canada and U.S.A......and if you have a criminal record you should have no hope in hell of getting your sorry lame ass into the country.....
 
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archangel said:
I have said that for years.... they, New Zealand, Canada and U.S.A......and if you have a criminal record you should have no hope in hell of getting your sorry lame ass into the country.....
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Their countries they can do what they want. Because the EU has a stranglehold on Britain and her people we cannot control. It was fine if it was just free trade but free passage of people from places like Romania. No thanks.
 
daugirdas said:
I agree about cutting incentives of not working and encouraging people to work. However you do realise, that unemployment is fairly low as it is, and there are always jobs where British candidates are not best or not even interested. In a way your comment sounds very nationalistic and discriminatory.

Just in case you didn't notice, the torries and UKIP had no chance at winning this election without an obvious scapegoat (the EU). What torries did over last 4 years very much destroyed the funding of science, public funding, RM was sold off at a loss and many families are significantly worse off than they were 10 years ago. So all they do is detract the attention by proclaiming hatred against non-UK nationals and that life will be better if we destroy the beast and win the second Trafalgar battle against the europeans. Well done, however things are about to get a lot more sour for the most (the non super wealthy)
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So are they any worse than Labour who sold of the gold reserves for pennies??? Who are the torries anyway? Are they similar to the Tories?

Two issues here - one is the EU, which is about as corrupt as you could get, if I ran my business like they do HMRC would have me banged up? We get back less than we put in so maybe by pulling out of the EU there would be more money for funding of science? With hindsight, RM may have been sold too cheap but its easy to be wise after the event.

Back on topic, if people from Romania want to come and work I have no issue - anyone who wants to come here and work should be welcomed with open arms. Anyone with no job however who wants benefits should not be welcome. Australia have it right, if you can make a contribution enter! Only thing is that the fruit season is seasonal - what do they do the rest of the time?
 
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ST4 said:
Thing is. I do a reasonable job good company. A degree is completely superfluous to requirements and for the bulk of graduates out there.

I work with a lot of people. Some have degrees some don't, it makes not one jot of difference. Obviously scientific/legal/medicinal occupations this is different but these groups are a tiny minority of the workforce and uni graduate output it's safe to say many who go don't need to go and as such funding should be wholly Bourne by them rather than government supported student loans blah blah
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I am sure you'd be happy to see the minorities like "scientific/legal/medicinal" disappear or become a rich man's hobby once again. Where do you think this would place the UK on the modern technology and healthcare map? Bankers without university education sounds just as scary after the big collapse. Perhaps banking should be one of those few courses fully funded by the students, but I am still going to go with the most suitable man for the job, and not the richest. The fact you didn't pick the right course and didn't put much effort in it doesn't mean the poor but capable, creative and hard working kids need to miss out from the careers they want. Maybe you are just not comfortable with social class mobility, which is so last century relic.
 
Cartus said:
English fruit farmers couldn't manage without immigrant labour to pick their produce. The indigenous population of this country are too lazy and not prepared to work hard enough.
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Just to be a devil's advocate....perhaps also the foreign workers are prepared to work cash in hand for less than the minimum wage.

Still, at least those in the fields are working.
Migrants that don't find employment in a set period of time would be on a National Express back home for me.
 
ST4 said:
How? Once we are hopefully out if the EU we can shoot illegal invaders coming in and can set our immigration policy however we want?
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First, we'd need to leave the EU. Much as I believe that's a good thing, it isn't going to happen soon.

archangel said:
Why is it illegal? Surely if a country decides a system of immigration then how can it be claimed to be illegal......
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There's a whole European directive on it. Basically I have the right to go and live anywhere I like in Europe for 3 months. Over that I'll need a job to stay (well, to be engaged in "economic activity"). Same thing for any law abiding European citizen. Parliament could make up whatever rules they like for (say) Australians. But for EU citizens they would need a derogation and the one that existed for Romania expired at the end of last year IIRC.
 
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