Talk Projects and Themes

[sirch]

Since there is no Projects and Themes discussion, I thought I'd start one and hope this is the best place.

I have been considering putting together a project* and I was after some pointers about style and organisation. By style I mean essentially the look of the overall project, should it look consistent in terms of processing, framing etc. or is it OK to do what suits each individual image? By organisation I mean how the images are assembled into the final project, should there be a sense of direction though the project or does it not matter?

Any other pointers about the pitfalls and mechanics of undertaking a photographic project would be appreciated




*I have to get over an aversion to what feels to me like massive pretentiousness in even thinking about doing such a thing

 

[Ed Sutton]

I'm no expert so feel free to ignore me!

The 'style' is likely to be determined by the subject matter. If the project is all about photographs of one particular kind of thing (a typology) then consistency of framing, orientation aspect ratio, lighting etc is best kept consistent.

For a more documentary theme then there's less need to keep the formal, compositional arrangements similar.

It rarely pays to mix colour and black and white within a project unless there is a good reason - maybe to differentiate two aspects, or for technical reasons such as low light or white balance difficulties in one area. Similarly keep processing consistent, that will provide a unifying look.

Deciding the final organisation/presentation of a project can either be done at the outset, during it, or at the end. Different people work in different ways and different projects require different approaches. I find planning things in advance too restrictive and the few projects I have tried it with never got anywhere as I felt I was just taking photos to fill in blank spaces (if that makes sense). If you are doing a project for yourself then stay as flexible as possible and be open to new turns in both subject matter and final editing/organising.

For my part I like to imagine a project as a book, a grid of pictures, a set of postcards, or a slideshow. Using Blurb or some other self-publishing software is an easy way to organise pictures into a book - even if it only ever remains virtual on your computer - and helps structure a project. If you do get it printed it's also nice to show people - or just flip through yourself from time to time.

Other people will have different ways of approaching projects, particularly those who are more organised than I am who are likley to plan things out in meticulous detail.

 

[sirch]

Thanks Ed, I certainly won't be ignoring you, you have done a lot more of this than I have and you have brought the first stumbling block into sharp focus. I don't know if what I intend to photograph is a typology or a documentary or something else. The theme I have in mind is karst, i.e. the landscapes formed by dissolution of limestone but it would not be mainly landscape photos rather more about the details, e.g. solution features, perhaps some flora and fauna and may be caves. Here are a few examples to give a flavour

Gaitbarrow 041 by TheWub, on Flickr

Farleton Pavement3 by TheWub, on Flickr

Goyden 210 by TheWub, on Flickr

Getting some of the photos could be a fairly significant effort so I'd like to go about it with some idea of assembling a finished piece of work rather than getting some way through and finding I need to re-shoot.

 

[Harlequin565]

I take my hat off to the project "makers" already running projects in this forum. I was one of the voices rallying for such a sub-forum to exist and now it's here, I read through these threads thinking "what can I do?". Been doing that for months!

I think each project has its own storytelling method. This in turn can be represented in a style that runs through the series of images.Take a look through some of the projects here to see the different ideas. I doubt anyone will say anything is plain "wrong".

@blakester and the Strangers project is a good example (imo) of a strong methodology with consistent style to the images. You kinda know what's coming next and yet it can still surprise you.

@Dark Knight and the horizontal strips project is an example of exploration and "finding out how it develops as it goes". No right answers here, just photos and feedback. Shoot, review, try something else.

There's also @Ed Sutton and the parochial project which looks interesting and a ton of information on the Denmark Street project by @Musicman. The Traveller series (@Solo man ) is also shaping up really well, and if you're after some guidance, looking through David's work (@Pookeyhead ) you will pick up some real gems if you can read between the drama.

In short (and the massive tag list might prompt some different views) I think that seeing how others approach and tackle projects can really help you get started. Once I get some time and an idea, I'll be giving it a go too.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Thanks Ed, I certainly won't be ignoring you, you have done a lot more of this than I have and you have brought the first stumbling block into sharp focus. I don't know if what I intend to photograph is a typology or a documentary or something else. The theme I have in mind is karst, i.e. the landscapes formed by dissolution of limestone but it would not be mainly landscape photos rather more about the details, e.g. solution features, perhaps some flora and fauna and may be caves. Here are a few examples to give a flavour

Gaitbarrow 041 by TheWub, on Flickr

Farleton Pavement3 by TheWub, on Flickr

Goyden 210 by TheWub, on Flickr

Getting some of the photos could be a fairly significant effort so I'd like to go about it with some idea of assembling a finished piece of work rather than getting some way through and finding I need to re-shoot.

Judging from the photos and the theme it strikes me essentially as documentary. But there are many ways to approach documentary projects too. You could include typologies alongside landscapes and more obviously documentary images like the cavers to build a 'big picture' formed by the whole project. In that case the final form of the project would be important. As an example, if the project were presented as a book it might be broken into chapters or sections with individual typology shots used to separate the sections which might be landscapes, caves and people. Just keep on shooting and re-evaluating what you've got to find a way to pull it all together. Continual re-evaluation is important, as is taking any photos you think might be useful at some stage. It's also worth considering if text is required as that can affect both what photographs to take and how they are interpreted.

A couple of books that might be of interest are On Being a Photographer and this one (which is a bit like an academic course but makes you consider how to approach project driven work).

 

[sirch]

@Harlequin565 - thanks for the links and tags, it is a great resource for myself and others who may be considering projects and partly what I was hoping for in this thread, i.e. a wider view of projects and themes.

I have been following all those on and off, your comment with regards to pookeyhead brought a gentle smile to my face and I will go back and revisit them for ideas and inspiration.

 

[sirch]

@Ed Sutton - again thanks for the book suggestions, I will read at least one of them and as I said above it is good to build a set of resources for people considering a project.

As for my own project, I think the inclusion of people/cavers in the photos will be ancillary to the main theme, photographing cavers would be a great project in its own right but turning up at a caving club hut and saying "I am doing a photography project" would probably be met with quite a lot of scorn. I am still open minded about the final presentation but one thought was as a "slide show" type video with varying speeds for displaying the images to convey tranquillity or urgency but that is possibly all a bit too much and again I am not sure about the "ethics" (don't know what other word to use) of such a presentation.

Continual re-evaluation is important, as is taking any photos you think might be useful at some stage

I agree but this is where I think I would like to have some kind of format in mind so that if I do grab images that might be useful they will at least look coherent at the end.

 

[Ed Sutton]

As for my own project, I think the inclusion of people/cavers in the photos will be ancillary to the main theme, photographing cavers would be a great project in its own right but turning up at a caving club hut and saying "I am doing a photography project" would probably be met with quite a lot of scorn.

DuncanDisorderly has done something along those lines - but he seems to have taken up caving to do it! https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/cave-photography-advice-needed.573419/

I am still open minded about the final presentation but one thought was as a "slide show" type video with varying speeds for displaying the images to convey tranquillity or urgency but that is possibly all a bit too much and again I am not sure about the "ethics" (don't know what other word to use) of such a presentation.

Nothing wrong with making slide shows.

 

[sirch]

Don't really want this to become a caving thread, perhaps we could do that somewhere else, however I have followed Duncan's work, it is very good and he has got to grips with cave photography very quickly but he is photographing the caves not the people . Most cavers will hold a flash gun or "model" to give scale etc. for photos of caves. Loads of discussion and great pictures over on http://ukcaving.com/

 

[Pookeyhead]

The first rule is essentially, base it on a subject you are deeply interested in, and knowledgeable about, then think about the practicalities, how visual the subject is, and whether it ultimately has an audience. The last two however, are really down to how you shoot it.

The best advice I've ever read around this subject is chapter 3: Selecting a Subject from this book.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j4kr3cg02bcjrb6/On Being a Photographer, 3rd Edition, CD version.pdf?dl=0

The whole book is excellent though, and well worth a read.

 

[The23rdman]

Having just begun my first personal project for five years, and my first that isn't people-centric, I already find myself looking at the world differently. I'm learning a lot about how I see and how symbolically I create patterns in my environment.

 

[sirch]

Thanks David

The first rule is essentially, base it on a subject you are deeply interested

✔

knowledgeable about,

✔

how visual the subject is

I see that as something of a challenge, the subject could be desperately dull, grey on grey but part of my objective would be to try to get people to see it how I see it. And in part I feel that the final presentation could be used to take people on a journey from the more visually appealing to the more "geological"

whether it ultimately has an audience

Well at least 1 other person in our house are interested in this I expect the audience is small but crowd pleasing is not very high on my agenda, of the available subjects this is the one that I am most motivated to undertake and I am thinking it will be something done over the next few years rather than in a few months.


Thanks for the link to the book, I guess that is the same one that Ed recommended, I'll definitely read it.

 

[sirch]

Having just begun my first personal project for five years, and my first that isn't people-centric, I already find myself looking at the world differently. I'm learning a lot about how I see and how symbolically I create patterns in my environment.

Thanks Dean, I saw your project and it looks very interesting, I too hope this will make me look at the world differently, I also hope it will motivate me to improve on things like lighting and composition

 

[The23rdman]

Thanks Dean, I saw your project and it looks very interesting, I too hope this will make me look at the world differently, I also hope it will motivate me to improve on things like lighting and composition

Anything that helps us grow as people and photographers helps.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Thanks for the link to the book, I guess that is the same one that Ed recommended, I'll definitely read it.

It is.

I wouldn't worry about an audience unless the aim is to make some money out of a project. So long as you get something out of the process then it will have been worthwhile.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Rather than start a new thread I'd like to post some thoughts about projects here is that's OK with @sirch

I see a lot of people on TP struggling to come up with ideas for taking photographs. My problem is that I come up with too many. This means that my difficulty is concentrating on ideas long enough to get anywhere with them. As a consequence I have lots of themes going round in my head and whenever I see something that fits one I take a shot or get in the groove and take a lot of pictures. Sometimes this happens when I go out with something specific in mind and get sidetracked.

I had such a light bulb moment last week. I'd been taking photos on this particular theme since I got back into photography in 2010. Pictures got tagged with the keyword in Lightroom and filed away. It wasn't until I had something clicked and I realised that what I wanted to be doing to make my point was take lots of detail shots and bring them together in grid format. I've got a little obsessed with making groups of pictures of late. I like the way individual pictures play off each other, how the collection becomes the whole, how there are multiple ways to read the piece.

After making a three by three grid from the pictures I shot (in an hour or so when I had actually gone looking for dragonflies) I tried another 3x3 using pictures I already had. That didn't work so well but it gave me a clue for some more that I could take. Which I did. They kind of worked but seemed a bit forced. However, combining them with the older pictures I began to get somewhere. Putting three 2x2 grids together I liked the effect (if not the arrangement). For now I've settled on a 6x4 grid, and have a clearer idea of what kind of pictures I need for it. Hopefully I'll keep my mind loose and shoot far more pictures than I need, and without too much thought as to how they might fit the grid. When I've got more than enough I'll pull them all together and, with a bit of luck, have something that works. In fact I'm itching to go out and start taking more photos!

It took me a while, but stumbling across the combination of detail picturess and a large grid has been the 'way in' for this project. I'm not posting anything at this stage as I'm superstitious and don't want to put the mockers on things! I'm quite hopeful though.

What I am saying is that different people have different approaches to creating projects. For some the carefully mapped out approach works best. They need to know what comes next and be in control. Others, like me, have to let the pictures tell them where to go. Whenever I plot a project out in detail I can't be arsed going taking the pictures. It feels too much like work. I got as far as laying out a book using Blurb for one project. I had a list of subjects to photograph. All I'd have to do was visit the locations, take the photographs and slot them in place. I took one or two and shoved them on a blog. But I soon lost interest. However, that approach would suit some people down to the ground. I'm still shooting in the local shop, so one day I might drop lucky and find my 'way in' and make something out of the hundreds of pictures I have accumulated.

Just a few thoughts that might be relevant.

 

[sirch]

Raher than start a new thread I'd like to post some thoughts about projects here is that's OK

That's fine, I do want this to be a general discussion and the more input and ideas the better.

I do need to do more cataloguing and better organise my stuff and I may well try pulling photos together into grids, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Solo man]

Rather than start a new thread I'd like to post some thoughts about projects here is that's OK with @sirch

My problem is that I come up with too many. This means that my difficulty is concentrating on ideas long enough to get anywhere with them. As a consequence I have lots of themes going round in my head and whenever I see something that fits one I take a shot or get in the groove and take a lot of pictures. Sometimes this happens when I go out with something specific in mind and get sidetracked.................

Whenever I plot a project out in detail I can't be arsed going taking the pictures. It feels too much like work. I got as far as laying out a book using Blurb for one project. I had a list of subjects to photograph. All I'd have to do was visit the locations, take the photographs and slot them in place. I took one or two and shoved them on a blog. But I soon lost interest..

I too have this exact same problem... I don't yet know how to 'overcome' the problem,because it does seem like I expend a lot of energy 'in my head', but have little to show for it, and your last paragraph is especially true.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Worth a read - http://neilturnerphotographer.co.uk/2015/11/11/diminishing-returns/

 

[sirch]

From the Neil Turner piece that Dave linked above

What is happening now is that I am getting slightly better versions of the original pictures – or at least ones that I prefer. In a commercial project that makes no sense whatsoever.

Things that play a big part in what I am currently trying to do is the weather and the seasons, this makes me think there will always be slightly better versions of things I have already photographed. He has a very valid point about knowing when to stop, or at least publish even if the work continues.

 

[Ed Sutton]

The getting slightly better (or in my case usually just slightly different...) versions of the same picture is something I can relate to. Knowing when to quit is always the hardest part if there is no deadline ahead.

 

[sirch]

You are probably right in that it is more likely to be slightly different rather than necessarily better but for me I suspect there is no end but there is probably a time when there is something worth publishing as a coherent collection.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Some thoughts and comments relevant to project making at The Online Photographer - http://theonlinephotographer.typepa...-turn-a-bunch-of-pictures-into-a-project.html

 

[Ed Sutton]

From the Neil Turner piece that Dave linked above


Things that play a big part in what I am currently trying to do is the weather and the seasons, this makes me think there will always be slightly better versions of things I have already photographed. He has a very valid point about knowing when to stop, or at least publish even if the work continues.

I've got to that stage with three projects which have been bumbling along since I got back into photography in 2010. One of them has almost 1500 pictures in the 'useful' folder (lots more in total), another over 600. I keep putting off the dreaded task of whittling them down to something more manageable. It's much easier to go out and take more pictures for current projects...

However, once I do sit down and start the editing process I get engrossed in it. Especially the sequencing and book making part. As I've mentioned elsewhere I use Blurb for this but over the last year or so I've been making PDFs and getting them printed using doxdirect.com. It's meant grappling with software that's not as simple to use as Blurb's, but in some ways works better. I find it ideal for doing A5 booklets of pictures in one orientation, one picture per page. That requires nothing clever doing in the design software. In fact what I do now is 'print to file' from Lightroom at A5 then simply slot the jpegs into the layout. The Moorcock book I actually exported direct to a PDF from the Slideshow module in LR and made a cover in OpenOffice. It needs some fiddling but as a first attempt at that method it was simple and worked well enough.

The other week I tried out a magazine layout. I'd done the original design with Blurb and got a copy printed only to find that they don't saddle stitch (staple) their magazines, they glue them. That meant my careful centrefold layout was knackered. Doxdirect gives you a choice of bindings. My new version arrived today and even though I'd had to reduce the file size to get it to upload the image quality is on a par with that from Blurb. Prices are similar to Blurb but delivery is faster - a couple of days.

This post has been another exercise in putting off the picture sifting process!

These are some of the collections I've done so far. The Lonk Power PDF is also on-line here - https://issuu.com/dlst/docs/lonksmall__nxpowerlite_copy_

 

[sirch]

I had forgotten all about this thread. Thanks for sharing that Dave, it's really good to get some details from a practical point of view and real world experience.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I had forgotten all about this thread. Thanks for sharing that Dave, it's really good to get some details from a practical point of view and real world experience.

It was just something I felt like mentioning and rather than start a new thread I thought it might be appropriate here.

I've still not started editing those projects. I thought adding keywords to 7,000 photos (which have none because they are junk...) in Lightroom was more important. Then I wenty fishing for a couple of hours.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Still avoiding the long term projects I've started editing the woodland project I did last autumn/winter. Only 200+ pics to sift. Got it down to less than 50 tonight. There are a few pictures which I like as stand-alones but which don't really fit into the flow of the project. It's a difficult project to sort out as it's more about mood than anything. I'm not even sure I can make it work in book form.

 

[EightBitTony]

I've just finished one project (contiguous numbers) where the total number of images was determined by the project, and whittling them down was really part of the journey before taking the next shot.

I decided a couple of years ago to document the demolition of a local car park, and I made the mistake there of taking too many shots, too often, which were too similar and taking too long to whittle them down. Now the energy for that is gone and I've got a thousand pictures which really need to be maybe 40 or so at most.

Other stuff is more open ended (abandoned coffee cups) and are really just things to keep me looking around on days I'm less inspired.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I decided a couple of years ago to document the demolition of a local car park, and I made the mistake there of taking too many shots, too often, which were too similar and taking too long to whittle them down. Now the energy for that is gone and I've got a thousand pictures which really need to be maybe 40 or so at most.

That's the position I'm in with one of my projects - some derelict land that was eventually 'reclaimed'. It was different every time I visited, either due to the weather, the change in seasons or people moving stuff about or dumping rubbish. I will sort the photos out eventually!

How many numbers did you get up to?

 

[EightBitTony]

How many numbers did you get up to?

Stopped at 100, just going to post an update to the Contiguous Numbers thread now.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/contiguous-numbers.661936/post-7935392

 

[sirch]

I'm a bit chuffed to have got my Tin Can Selfie project published on Emulsive
https://emulsive.org/articles/proje...d-pinhole-selfies-featured-project-and-how-to


TP project: https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/tin-can-selfies.692652/

Insta (where else for selfies) https://www.instagram.com/tincanselfies/

 

[Harlequin565]

Well done Chris. Fascinating read and the TP project thread really doesn't go into the "how". You made it look "easy".

 

[Ed Sutton]

Now to go viral!

 

[sirch]

Now to go viral!

I think I've been inoculated against that

 

[jerry12953]

I must have missed this thread the first time round.......looking forward to reading it in more depth when I have more time!

 

[Ed Sutton]

I'm not sure if I'm done with this yet, or whether it needs a tighter edit. Thoughts?

 

[sirch]

I'm not sure if I'm done with this yet, or whether it needs a tighter edit. Thoughts?

Sorry if I've missed it above or forgotten but what's the theme Dave?

 

[Ed Sutton]

Sorry if I've missed it above or forgotten but what's the theme Dave?

I forgot the mention that!

All pictures taken within less than a mile of home.

 

[Harlequin565]

Heh... Only just spotted this...

I think it depends on your intent. If it's for a zine, I'd like it as it stands. If it's for a tryptich - you've got your work cut out...

 

[Ed Sutton]

Heh... Only just spotted this...

I think it depends on your intent. If it's for a zine, I'd like it as it stands. If it's for a tryptich - you've got your work cut out...

LOL

Deffo a zine. I think it still needs a bit more work/editing. Maybe pull the red theme together more?