Hit and run by a cyclist! What can we do?

Box Brownie said:
Setting aside the wider aspects e.g. do we need more legislation to cover cyclists (and pedestrians!!) behaviour on the road
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according to some in this thread, cyclists are above the law so what's the point :D
 
nandbytes said:
Thank you for the best wishes :)
Hopefully he will going to school in a couple weeks. He misses that the most I think.
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Maybe get him a taxi? :D
 
Box Brownie said:
Setting aside the wider aspects e.g. do we need more legislation to cover cyclists (and pedestrians!!) behaviour on the road

I hope your brother, now home I think you said, makes a full & speedy recovery.....he is young enough for bones etc to heal quickly and all being well without any lasting after effects.
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Yes, we definitely do need to tighten up on laws and rules, although often we should not need to seek blame, accidents so happen! But the only thing is around enforceability. Unless a copper is there with a speed gun, can you really tell if a cyclist is speeding? Also, as another person pointed out, a cyclist taking evasive action could hurt themselves.
 
At the end of the day, the kid did something daft and broke a leg.
Should the cyclist have stopped to check if the kid was ok? Probably.
If he had stopped, would the broken bone have miraculously gone away? No.
Is it a police matter? Not remotely.
Accidents happen.
Bones break and then they heal.
The kid will be dining out on this with his mates for months.
 
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There are plenty of existing rules for cyclists.

However, be it a cyclists, car drivers, motorbike riders, pedestrians, etc etc... Some people are going to be people and ignore those rules.

viv1969 said:
At the end of the day, the kid did something daft and broke a leg.
Should the cyclist have stopped to check if the kid was ok? Probably.
If he had stopped, would the broken bone have miraculously gone away? No.
Is it a police matter? Not remotely.
Accidents happen.
Bones break and then they heal.
The kid will be dining out on this with his mates for months.
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Exactly this.
 
If bicycles are going to be comparible to motor vehicles and cyclists want the same rights as drivers then I think identification plates for bicycles would probably be a good thing for starters.
 
gman said:
If bicycles are going to be comparible to motor vehicles and cyclists want the same rights as drivers then I think identification plates for bicycles would probably be a good thing for starters.
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yes not sure it is feasible to make them have licence plates. Whole bunch of other issues related to this.

But it still possible to have good set of legislation around cycles without having the plates
 
gman said:
Unworkable or too much hassle/expensive?
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Both.

Who/what does the plate tie to? If the bike how do you get around the lack of a unique vin style number to correlate. If the rider, how does that work for minors?

Displaying/affixing of plates on multiple different style bikes. Etc

Where does this brilliant new database and managing agency come from?

We did this debate back in 2014 when it was last proposed, which has a lot of the cons in. But to summerise...

https://amp.theguardian.com/environ...s-id-for-cyclists-but-cant-explain-why-or-how

Why cycle ID plates don’t work
There’s many very good reasons why such ideas have precisely zero support among police, road groups and serious politicians, and why they’ve been almost unknown, anywhere.

For a start, it’s absurdly impractical and virtually unenforceable. Where does the number go? A plate on a bike? What happens if you have several bikes, or borrow one, or rent one? Or on a wearable tabard? But what if you carry a bag? Or it’s very hot? Or you need to put on a raincoat?

Then you have the parameters: would it only be for adults, or would, say, children need numbers? If children are excepted would, say, 15-year-olds need to carry ID to show they are exempt?

Next: the minimal benefits. Red light jumping by cyclists is, to my mind, deeply antisocial and can be intimidating. But it’s very, very, very rarely responsible for serious injury or death. It might seem counter-intuitive, but that’s the case.

Also, there is already a very good case study of easily readable ID plates for cyclists: London’s hire bikes, which have numbers in easily-readable digits on the frame. But when someone asked the cycle hire people how many reports of lawbreaking had been made out of several million trips the answer came back: two. And neither cited the registration number.

Finally, you get unintended consequences. Force cyclists to register, let alone wear a tabard, and at a stroke you’re likely to greatly cut the number on the roads. Suddenly - more road deaths, more smog, greater congestion, greater ill-health from inactivity.

It simply makes no sense.
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Gremlin said:
according to some in this thread, cyclists are above the law so what's the point :D
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totally agree Ingrid ... personally I cannot believe that this crap has run to 6 pages possibly more defending what we can now see is total arrogance from the cycle fans on here . if the lad had been crippled for life or even killed would they still be spouting there jobsworth replies I wonder .... no wonder whole sections of society are starting to hate the arrogant lycra clad c***s
 
gman said:
If bicycles are going to be comparible to motor vehicles and cyclists want the same rights as drivers then I think identification plates for bicycles would probably be a good thing for starters.
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Perhaps it's a good time to point out that cyclists have a "Right" to be on the road, motor vehicles don't...that's why they have to be licensed.

And a question to those calling for more laws for cyclists ( Mandatory insurance, number plates and so on.). What lower age limit do you suggest?
The lad next door has just gone tearing past on his bike, on the pavement, no lights, no bell nothing... He's five and his Dad was running behind him holding on to the saddle.
 
Graham W said:
Perhaps it's a good time to point out that cyclists have a "Right" to be on the road, motor vehicles don't...that's why they have to be licensed.
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and motor vehicles pay a damn lot for the privilege
But this thread was about an accident involving a pedestrian and I am damn sure they were about and have more right to
be there then cyclists
 
neil_g said:
Both.

Who/what does the plate tie to? If the bike how do you get around the lack of a unique vin style number to correlate. If the rider, how does that work for minors?

Displaying/affixing of plates on multiple different style bikes. Etc

Where does this brilliant new database and managing agency come from?
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It really wouldn't be very difficult for a basic database. As for minors, it's pretty simple for their bikes to be registered to a parent. Many of the other excuses could be applied to cars and motorbikes but they have to manage.

Besides, it could help reduce bike theft which is a big thing.

But the police don't want the hassle and cyclists won't want it for obvious reasons.
 
Gremlin said:
and motor vehicles pay a damn lot for the privilege
But this thread was about an accident involving a pedestrian and I am damn sure they were about and have more right to
be there then cyclists
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But they also have to accept the consequences when they prance out into the road without checking what they might be leaping in front of.
 
Gremlin said:
and motor vehicles pay a damn lot for the privilege
But this thread was about an accident involving a pedestrian and I am damn sure they were about and have more right to
be there then cyclists
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Yes. Thanks for that. I know how much motoring cost, you know, being a motorist and all that. I was just pointing out a concept which appears to have been lost.

Oh, and repeating the word "Damn" doesn't make your argument stronger, it just makes you sound like Ms Angry. :)

PS Any thoughts on that other bit of my post? (The bit about the lower age limit if you missed it.)
 
Graham W said:
Yes. Thanks for that. I know how much motoring cost, you know, being a motorist and all that. I was just pointing out a concept which appears to have been lost.

Oh, and repeating the word "Damn" doesn't make your argument stronger, it just makes you sound like Ms Angry. :)

PS Any thoughts on that other bit of my post? (The bit about the lower age limit if you missed it.)
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Nope because I was commenting on the right to be on the road, not age limits,that is all I quoted if you DAMN well bother to read it :rolleyes:
 
viv1969 said:
But they also have to accept the consequences when they prance out into the road without checking what they might be leaping in front of.
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who said they didn't, all I was pointing out is that pedestrians have been around longer then bikes :thinking:
 
As far as visible ID goes, how about a bright flourescent sash, at least it would be a safety aid at the same time
 
Its always amusing, thread starts off where a kid steps into traffic and it turns into an anti cycling rant by some....

the black fox said:
totally agree Ingrid ... personally I cannot believe that this crap has run to 6 pages possibly more defending what we can now see is total arrogance from the cycle fans on here . if the lad had been crippled for life or even killed would they still be spouting there jobsworth replies I wonder .... no wonder whole sections of society are starting to hate the arrogant lycra clad c***s
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....:rolleyes: case in point.

gman said:
It really wouldn't be very difficult for a basic database. As for minors, it's pretty simple for their bikes to be registered to a parent. Many of the other excuses could be applied to cars and motorbikes but they have to manage.

Besides, it could help reduce bike theft which is a big thing.

But the police don't want the hassle and cyclists won't want it for obvious reasons.
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Not sure what you're suggesting the obvious reasons are. Let's face it number plates don't stop motorists from speeding or using their mobile. I see far more of that than cyclists doing something wrong on a day to day basis. Like I said, people will be people and as usual the minority ruin it for everyone.

It won't stop theft. You can't tie a plate to a bike as manufacturers all have different numbering schemes on serial numbers, you could potentially have multiple bikes with the same serial all with different plates. Its too messy. And what's stopping me moving a plate between bikes and/or riders?

There are too many grey areas and pitfalls.

Gremlin said:
As far as visible ID goes, how about a bright flourescent sash, at least it would be a safety aid at the same time
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Not suitable if you use a backpack/hydration pack. If you're taking your coat on and off during a ride its just inconvenient.

Gremlin said:
and motor vehicles pay a damn lot for the privilege
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And? I pay my fair share of (emissions based) ved and plenty of duty on diesel. I also pay council tax which goes towards roads (not the ved I must add). How does that make me as a cyclist any less relevant than me as a motorist.
 
Gremlin said:
who said they didn't, all I was pointing out is that pedestrians have been around longer then bikes :thinking:
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Well of course they have, by thousands of years. But that doesn't mean that their attitudes shouldn't evolve.
Any pedestrian who doesn't give some forethought to their actions shouldn't bleat about it after the fact.

And yes, I do think the cyclist should have stopped, but given the current laws, they were under no obligation to do so.

Also, if we're discussing the actual law, pedestrians do not have greater privelidges on the road than motorists/cyclists.
 
neil_g said:
It won't stop theft. You can't tie a plate to a bike as manufacturers all have different numbering schemes on serial numbers, you could potentially have multiple bikes with the same serial all with different plates. Its too messy. And what's stopping me moving a plate between bikes and/or riders?

There are too many grey areas and pitfalls.

Not suitable if you use a backpack/hydration pack. If you're taking your coat on and off during a ride its just inconvenient.
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I get what you are saying but it still comes across to me like excuses which could be fairly easily overcome even if a little inconvenient. I cycle myself and I wouldn't have a problem with my bike having a VRN but I suspect many others are against it because they don't want to be identifiable. This makes it very easy for some of them to be complete toss*rs with near impunity.

But I also do think that it will never happen. There's not the same level of money to be fleeced when compared to cars, never mind HGVs!
 
viv1969 said:
Well of course they have, by thousands of years. But that doesn't mean that their attitudes shouldn't evolve.
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and I was simply replying to this post

Graham W said:
Perhaps it's a good time to point out that cyclists have a "Right" to be on the road, motor vehicles don't...that's why they have to be licensed.
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neil_g said:
Its always amusing, thread starts off where a kid steps into traffic and it turns into an anti cycling rant by some....
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Play fair Neil. It was the pro-cycling lobby (notably Andy700 and Mr Bump) that ramped up the temperature if you ignore the idiotic post by Black Fox - which was generic and crass.
 
DemiLion said:
Play fair Neil. It was the pro-cycling lobby (notably Andy700 and Mr Bump) that ramped up the temperature if you ignore the idiotic post by Black Fox - which was generic and crass.
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LOL geratric maybe :beer:
 
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andy700 said:
Abosulutely right Dave, when I was racing, I sometimes used a fixed wheel bike on the road to train for track competition, and it was always road legal with a front brake fitted. If you watch track cyclists on an indoor track competing, it takes around a complete lap for them to sow down sufficiently to get off their bike after an event because they do not have at least one brake on their bike.
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I don't want to get involved in the greater harangue, but the 'one lap' to slow down is simply because they are gently warming down after the race and because there are very limited exits from a normal velodrome circuit. I used to race track bikes, and with a little warning could lock the rear wheel with my legs - a reasonable stopping distance from racing speeds without warning would likely be less than half a straight, possibly quite a bit less.
 
On the news this morning that a new law is being looked into to include 'death by dangerous cycling' as a charge, the cycling brigade are not happy and state that the number of instances are so low it's not worth the effort to change.
I could see it argued that any change in legislation could/should include a scale similar to motorists, careless cycling, cycling without due care and attention etc.not sure how it would be enforced but there is enough CCTV around go gather evidence in a lot of cases I would have thought.
 
PaulF said:
the cycling brigade are not happy and state that the number of instances are so low it's not worth the effort to change.
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In that case remove all the "idiot signs" on the back of trucks that tell cyclists not to be twatts;- don't pass on the inside, especially when the truck turning left.
Seems so few are actually killed like this, hardly seems worth the costs of the signs, does it?
 
This is the big rub, prevention never seems to be important, only reaction when something horrible happens.

I wonder how many deaths are required before it's worth the effort?
 
Graham W said:
There's a very interesting article on future cycling law in the recent Cycle magazine, lots of facts and reasoned debate so I doubt it'll be of interest to many here. :)
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That's helpful. (y)
 
Graham W said:
Buy it and read it?
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Post a summary for those of us without the inclination to buy it ?.

I was interested enough to see if there was an online version. It seems to be the magazine of cycling UK, so just buying one edition may be tricky.
 
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This may well be very similar to the article which Graham referred to. If anyone thinks that I belong to the "pro-cycling lobby" (Mark), then they should know that I was in favour of the prosecution of Charlie Alliston when he hit and killed a woman, whilst he was riding a bike which was not road legal. In 2017, 3 people were killed after being hit by a bicycle, and 531 hit in total. In the same year, 467 people were killed by motor vehicles and 23,805 hit in total.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/rise-pedestrians-hit-cyclists-not-cause-leap-conclusions-396047
 
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