Cotswold and Panamoz
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At a rough guess i have bought around 35 maybe 40 cameras over the last 15 years from all of the major brands. Sony, Fuji, Nikon, Canon and Olympus. That is not counting some odd ball cameras like Samsung and Sigma.
You seem very defensive of Cotswold, it is a bit odd.
I have never once bought a new camera that had anything but a shutter count of 1 after I had taken my first photo. I always check as Jessops way back in the day try to fob me of with a used camera that was being sold as new.
I know a lot of other photographers I have never heard of anyone receiving a new camera that already had a shutter count unless they have been ripped off.
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They did give him a full refund though
I'd probably turn that round and say @Hanley 's response is a measured and rational one, especially as its based on personal experience - but you seem intent on "bringing down" cotswold based on 1 persons report of a bad experience and a few negative online reviews which doesn't seem overly rational or balanced to me.
FWIW I've bought a number of things from cotswolds too and not had an issue with products being anything but new.
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I'm not connected to them in anyway and didn't think I was being overly defensive of them.
I was just trying to get across what my personal experience of buying gear from them was like, my first purchase from them was for £10K and I emailed them to try and satisfy my hesitation. Since then I've probably spent another £10K, and I had no issues, that's all i was trying to get across.
I think they do differ from E-Infinity and Panamoz, in the sense they're actually physically based in Hong Kong and handle your gear before shipping, whereas Cotswold seems to act as a middle man. that's my take anyway. There's plenty of choice for us as consumers so it's all good.
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im with Hanley on this ,as per another post in the thread its quite common for a lot of mirrorless bodies to have a factory checking shutter count before delivery ESPECIALLY if that model has had unknown to us problems .. I do know for a fact that on some Olympus /OMS bodies that can even go as high as 1000 actuations .. the cameras are still brand new ,still carry all applicable warranty but have been factory tested .. or would you rather buy one that works for a couple of days and then has to be sent back .. same as buying a new car do you want one out of the showroom with zero miles or one that's had a PDI .
there seems to be quiet a few members on here that think that one bad experience with a grey importer labels them all as pirates ,thieves and vagabonds and would much prefer to pay rip off Britain inflated prices due to a touch of snobbery and oneupmanship
there seems to be quiet a few members on here that think that one bad experience with a grey importer labels them all as pirates ,thieves and vagabonds and would much prefer to pay rip off Britain inflated prices due to a touch of snobbery and oneupmanship
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It looked like it had had a small drop, it was dented and scratched on one corner. Also, that wouldn't explain why the split rings and leather protectors were on.
I know Olympus can have quite a few on the shutter count from factory, but I don't beleive Fuji do. My Fuji from Wex came with 0 shutter count.
I read through the posts and I think the inference in this remark is a bit unfair.
I refrain from getting involved too far in some of the advice / recommendation / performance topics because of the way that discussion can become unintentionally twisted about itself.
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There are grey importers, and there are grey importers 
From my past experience as (long ago) a customs officer and my career in logistics which included imports from the Far East, I have to say my only red line with grey imporers is when they are solely based in the Far East.
Ive bought Cameras and lenses from HDEW. Ive never worried about them, they have a unit down in London wher you can collect from, and my last camera got delivered in 3 days with an £800 saving on high street prices. My use of them, even if they are slightly more expensive than others, is because I know the item I get will be duty paid, (although theres no duty on cameras from Hong Kong anyway, only VAT), and it will be genuinely new. I would also get 3 years insurance backed warranty by Canon approved repairers on a camera. The box was opened on my last camera, but that was because a UK charger cable was put in it.
Ordering from companies based in HK ... well, you have to feel comfortable that you can trust them to have attended to all the tax issues on arrival in the UK because if they havent them you'll most likely end up paying VAT and import agents charges when it arrives and also thats when you may struggle with a warranty.
As far as Cotswold Cameras are concerned, from what Ive seen the operate in the same way as HDEW. Three year warranty, VAT / duty paid. The box may well be opened by the time you get it, for the reasons I mentioned above, but the camera itself should of course be unused.
From my past experience as (long ago) a customs officer and my career in logistics which included imports from the Far East, I have to say my only red line with grey imporers is when they are solely based in the Far East.
Ive bought Cameras and lenses from HDEW. Ive never worried about them, they have a unit down in London wher you can collect from, and my last camera got delivered in 3 days with an £800 saving on high street prices. My use of them, even if they are slightly more expensive than others, is because I know the item I get will be duty paid, (although theres no duty on cameras from Hong Kong anyway, only VAT), and it will be genuinely new. I would also get 3 years insurance backed warranty by Canon approved repairers on a camera. The box was opened on my last camera, but that was because a UK charger cable was put in it.
Ordering from companies based in HK ... well, you have to feel comfortable that you can trust them to have attended to all the tax issues on arrival in the UK because if they havent them you'll most likely end up paying VAT and import agents charges when it arrives and also thats when you may struggle with a warranty.
As far as Cotswold Cameras are concerned, from what Ive seen the operate in the same way as HDEW. Three year warranty, VAT / duty paid. The box may well be opened by the time you get it, for the reasons I mentioned above, but the camera itself should of course be unused.
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Hence my post but we all have different experiences. Im sorry @snerkler hasn't had a great experience, but at the end of the day it was resolved and refunded so its not like the problem is ongoing and wasn't attended to.
I'm not sure they are though - there are a number of contradictions on the website. The terms and conditions state that you're dealing with a Hong Kong company, Chateaubriand Limited (and subject to HK law) with payments taken by the UK company, Cotswold UK Cameras Limited. The UK company is not VAT registered and has no employees so seemingly acts only as an agent of the trading co.
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Not to sure about that my receipt for a £1000 lens said duty was based on camera parts at £76
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Cotswold in itself does not exist it is just a website front end they also do the same thing with Norfolk cameras and I think there as a few others as well. It is funny actually because if you email Cotswold he replies as David yet with Norfolk he replies as Dave.
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A bit like Panamoz replying as TinaCotswold in itself does not exist it is just a website front end they also do the same thing with Norfolk cameras and I think there as a few others as well. It is funny actually because if you email Cotswold he replies as David yet with Norfolk he replies as Dave.
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Yeah, I've had good dealings with them in the past and have always praised them. I'm sure my latest experience is very rare, however as it's happened to me I would always question whether I'd received a new item.
I completely understand why others are happy to continue using them, I'd probably be the same if it'd happened to someone else
I bought a sold as new camera from my local Jessops when they were in every town.
Tried to fob me of that i was wrong when I wanted to return it and the 3k extra of lenses I also bought.
As I said before I looked at Cotswold but having felt with panamoz and their warranty years after. I wouldn’t like to take the chance Cotswold wouldn’t be as good.
I may use them for a cheaper lens as they are noticeably cheaper.
Tried to fob me of that i was wrong when I wanted to return it and the 3k extra of lenses I also bought.
As I said before I looked at Cotswold but having felt with panamoz and their warranty years after. I wouldn’t like to take the chance Cotswold wouldn’t be as good.
I may use them for a cheaper lens as they are noticeably cheaper.
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Interesting. They must have a very round about way of paying import VAT & duties then. Can only assume its paid immediately on import, normally the vat is deferred using a VAT account, but they would have to be VAT registered for that to happen
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I said there was no duty on digital cameras from Hong Kong. There IS duty on camera lenses from Hong Kong
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I'd also add that this is why I use a company I researched originally, even if they are slightly more expensive. HDEW is VAT registered and therefore registered with HMRC. It is also a Limited company, so files accounts
Good that you've researched it and yes, HDEW is a UK Co and legal jurisdiction is UK - as opposed to Cotswold which is HK. It's OK having rights but trying to enforce them in another jurisdiction is not always easy. I had a six month battle with TomTom once, having bought direct from them (Netherlands IIRC) before getting my money back. Nor will I ever buy a Sony product again having inadvertently accepted warranty terms which required me to ship the offending product to Germany at my own expense at which point they'd make an assessment of whether it was covered or not. So yes, I also do a good bit of research before buying high value items!
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What is HDEW's VAT number that you researched?
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As far as Cotswolds goes the lens I bought from them came from Hong Kong they provided itemised tracking from warehouse to my front door via DHL and that included in flight u.k customs clearance during the final part of the journey . The info was all provided by DHL themselves . Sorry but I can’t fault service like that 7 days from order to arrival .
So yes they provide good service ,there will always be hiccups or faulty goods but that also happens with u.k purchased items like the two Nikon D7100 cameras I bought brand new from LCE first one failed at approximately 3 k shutter count the second one did exactly the same ,got a refund did a expensive shift to canon bought a 1Dmkiv shutter failed after six months refunded again .go figure
So yes they provide good service ,there will always be hiccups or faulty goods but that also happens with u.k purchased items like the two Nikon D7100 cameras I bought brand new from LCE first one failed at approximately 3 k shutter count the second one did exactly the same ,got a refund did a expensive shift to canon bought a 1Dmkiv shutter failed after six months refunded again .go figure
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Which HDEW co are you referring to?
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He is called Tina he has a rather long name that he shortens to Tina have spoken to him on the phone a couple of times.A bit like Panamoz replying as Tina
As we speak, a Tamron 50-400mm is on the way to me. The first week, I did not see anything moving, but on friday, UPS started the transport from Bonn to my place... 2 times they did a wrong sorting, and if all goes well, I should have the lens by tomorrow.
I do not really compare this to a new lens due to the price difference. New, I would pay close to 1400€. I am paying 850€ at Cotswolds, a price that is even lower then most of the offers second hand.
So, for a price lower then second hand, I will get a lens that is new, or almost new, with a warranty that might be a bit complex to get.
Still a lot better then 2nd hand without warranty, and where I do not know if the lens ever got a shower or a swim.
I am also looking at replacing my A7 iv in some time. As amateur, I can not justify for myself a 4000€ camera. I can afford it, but I do not want it. So I am following the second hand market of the A7 rv. Second hand prices are mostly around 2700-3000€ when is nearly mint condition.
Cotswolds sells it for 2200€...
But again, this is my comparison. I compare to second hand as the prices are more favourable then second hand. And yes, deliveries are a bit slower and warranty might be a tad more difficult to get. But there is still the protection I get on my credit card to fill the gaps.
If I would be a professional wedding or commercial photographer, I would probably buy at the regular dealers, but I would also expect them to help me very fast with a spare body or lens in case of a defect. And that is what you pay for...
I do not really compare this to a new lens due to the price difference. New, I would pay close to 1400€. I am paying 850€ at Cotswolds, a price that is even lower then most of the offers second hand.
So, for a price lower then second hand, I will get a lens that is new, or almost new, with a warranty that might be a bit complex to get.
Still a lot better then 2nd hand without warranty, and where I do not know if the lens ever got a shower or a swim.
I am also looking at replacing my A7 iv in some time. As amateur, I can not justify for myself a 4000€ camera. I can afford it, but I do not want it. So I am following the second hand market of the A7 rv. Second hand prices are mostly around 2700-3000€ when is nearly mint condition.
Cotswolds sells it for 2200€...
But again, this is my comparison. I compare to second hand as the prices are more favourable then second hand. And yes, deliveries are a bit slower and warranty might be a tad more difficult to get. But there is still the protection I get on my credit card to fill the gaps.
If I would be a professional wedding or commercial photographer, I would probably buy at the regular dealers, but I would also expect them to help me very fast with a spare body or lens in case of a defect. And that is what you pay for...
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For me that's not the point, it is being listed as, and you are paying for a new product, regardless of the price is shouldn't be used. If you were in HK and picked one up yourself would you expect it to be used just because it's cheaper?
Obviously we're all entitled to our own view on this, but if I'm buying a new product I expect it to be new
I'm sure you probably know this, but if you buy second hand from a store you usually get 6-12months warranty.
Yes, but those prices are even higher then what I mentioned.... Prices I see are from private persons... with all the extra risk involved (I do buy sometimes privately, but would always pick it up myselves)
If I see my lens is really used, I would send it back. And a camera with 20-50 activations is still new to me for these discounted prices.
But hey, you compare to new from a local shop because it is advertised as new. I compare to second hand because of the price...
Fact is, if the price is so much lower, there must be a difference...
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If something is advertised as new it should be new.
When you buy grey import you are paying the "new" price it is only cheaper because you are not paying tax and import duty.
No, I can not imagine that they can avoid import duties and regular taxes. My stuff will be sent from Germany to Belgium, but somehow the goods had to enter the EU.
Isn't the definition of grey goods that they do not go through official distribution channels and are cheaper because they avoid duties and taxes. Its difficult to see how such lenses as the
Canon RF 85mm f/1.2L RRP £3069.00 being sold for £1,849.00 with a saving of :£1220.00 or 40% could be without those cost avoidances. Unless Canon make huge markup and the purchaser has found a way to buy pre-markup
They all make huge markups, it must be that Cotswolds is buying on markets with very low wholesale pricing.
The same happens with cars, net prices of cars are lower in Portugal and Denmark, and EU importers buy big lots and sell them in other countries 20-30% cheaper then official gross prices.
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They circumvent it by under declaring the value of the item when it goes through customs. I mentioned a few posts up how the customs paperwork valued a lens I paid £1000 for at £76. So they only pay and tax and import duty on £76. This is standard practice with all of the grey importers I have used.
Sometimes you don't get to see the customs paperwork as they sometimes deliver to the U.K, repackage and forward on. However it is always there when it is shipped direct if you care to look for it in my experience anyway. I have spent over 70k with Panamoz over the last 15 years or so, around 10k with e-infin, about 3k with Cotswolds, and probably another 10k between the others and that has always been the case.
Have ordered 5k camera bodies as another example that were declared as toy parts at £34.
Toy parts were a common one they used to use. They seem to always put camera parts now.This is why occasionally the delivery will get seized by customs. They only check a very small proportion of parcels.
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and interestingly they will add in their T&C's that 'you' are the importer and responsible for compliance with all local requirements re charges & taxes.
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Interesting way to look at it, however there should be NO difference. If you ask them or check the FAQ they will tell you there's no difference in the product compared buying new in the UK, they come off the same production line, it's just that they've been made for a different market. I understand it's still a better deal than used UK and for some that's enough, but for me if it's sold as new it should be new as I've already mentioned a couple of time.
Yeah, that's how they can offer such low prices. I've not received a single item that's been listed correctly on the shipping note, as Tommy says they usually put the value under £100.
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Yep, that's their big get out clause
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As far as I know theres only one HDEW. https://hdewcameras.co.uk
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VAT invoices are issued by their parent company, Validhurst who have been operating in the UK for over 30 years or so, vat no 671 9479 88 .... so I guess you can say HDEW is the trading name of Validhurst