£100 P/hr wedding photographer

joncro said:
. Handing over the images is easy part surely, i supply the tog with a usb stick before the event and i collect it from him a few days after the event.
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thing is (and no offence intended) say for example i do it - i give you the images unedited then one of two things happens a) you or you missus get the arse because all the pics look soft (raws often do) and i wind up in the daily mail , or alternately you make a real hash of the PP including lots of cliched colour popping etc- then I've got images being shared on line with my name on that look bloody awful.

bottom line if it goes out with my name on its edited properly before it leaves me

I hear what you are saying on budget but if you upped your budget a little bit you could probably get a local pro to do a much better job for say £250
 
I'd go with roping the brother in and putting the extra few quid behind the bar for the groom. Family are obliged on this day to help out, especially for just an hour. Leverage that brother! I have no doubt my sister would of pulled that one if I had been near her wedding!

Good to hear its all banter- I read the " PM me and discuss', as a 'lets take this outside' :)
 
Broric said:
Then they stick that "cool instagram filter" on before uploading to facebook anyway :p
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on the whole they don't - I tend to provide fb ready low res's so they just use them as is -i have had the occasional onewho really loves colour popping (it kills kittens), and if i can't talk them out of it i'll do it if i really have to - but at least i can keep it as tack free as possible
 
joncro said:
I agree with what everyone is saying to some extent. i read somewhere the average wedding in the UK costs £22,000! we have a tenth of that budget and can invite only family members and one best friend each to the wedding.(55 guests in total)
If money was no objective, i would pay for a full package (£1000 lets say) but the money is simply not available, so because we cant afford a professional tog to capture our day, i get suggestions of a guest to use a compact camera! surely there is some middle ground to be explored?
My brother in law is also a capable photographer and will be bringing his DSLR but i want him to enjoy the day without being the 'Photographer'.
So i can understand professional photographers feeling narked that it appears i'm trying to cut costs on the pictures, we are actually cutting costs on the whole wedding.

The wedding is a civil service ceremony. Handing over the images is easy part surely, i supply the tog with a usb stick before the event and i collect it from him a few days after the event.
We are not asking for money or presents from our guests.

Anyway thanks to all who have taken the time to reply to my OP i'm sure it will all work out just fine in the end!
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Speaking as a wedding photographer, rather than a 'professional'

We're not 'narked' we're trying to give you solid advice. Unfortunately you're blindsided to the reality of the question.
1. For a photographer with a reputation to protect, handing over untouched files isn't an 'easy' option. It's an extremely risky option that you have to acknowledge and then manage.
2. The obvious middle ground is as I've said utter crap. There are thousands of photographers who will shoot this job for experience, and many of them will be able to produce decent results. But the instant you're looking at 'cheap' photographers, you won't find the decent amateurs, it's the wrong question. You'll not get a cheap decent pro, you can get cheap and decent, but you need to look for an amateur, which is much more difficult.
 
rich_ said:
Good to hear its all banter- I read the " PM me and discuss', as a 'lets take this outside' :)
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It was an 'I'd love to show you what a £100 photographer produces, but I can't do it in public.
:p
 
If it was convenient enough I would probably take the pics and hand over the card for £100... done and done. I'd probably even release the rights as well because there's probably not going to be anything particularly great coming out of the shoot.

Have you ever been asked to take someones picture for them while out/about? Do you insist on editing the images before giving them their camera back? What's the difference?
 
Have to say as a working Professional Wedding Photographer I have had this query a few times along the lines of we want you just for the ceremony and a few shots after can you do an hour ?

The problem with that is Weddings dont often run to plan, a 12pm ceremony and shots after would need you to be there and ready from 11.50 to catch arrivals and be in position , the Bride is often 5-10 mins late thats 12.10 ceremony can last 30 mins thats 12.40 , leaving just 20 mins for formals , well it can be done but often there is much happening straight after the B&G come out , confetti , drinks , congrats , then you have to get everyone together etc so as you can see an hour is far to close to the mark for everyone concerned.

Go down the route of 2 hours max and budget £150-200 ( that will give your ceremony and shots after ) and you will probably find a local pro who is not booked up a few weeks before who will come and do it , but don't ask for the images unedited , no Pro in their right mind is going to do that. Editing a set like that will take less than an hour which most will happily do for you. You will find Pros who are not booked up a few weeks before willing , but they probably would not take the booking right now as there is still time to fill that date , I and many others take big booking sometimes only a month or two before the date.

Might be worthwhile also pointing out your location and venue as someone on here might be able to help ?

As for guests taking the photos , all well and good if its not too sunny or bad weather and you have the right location and the right person who can organize people , unfortunately that's not normally the case !
 
Phil V said:
It was an 'I'd love to show you what a £100 photographer produces, but I can't do it in public.
:p
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Isn't there a specific sub forum here especially for that? 'I can make you a star! (just loosen that strap a bit further) ' :-D
 
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Phil V said:
If you want to have an honest debate rather than baiting pro's, we can swap PMs and I'll show you what an £100 photographer local to me looks like and what a £800 one looks like. You can show me some local to you to disprove it if you really want to.
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Handbags and popcorn....

To be honest though I agree PhilV, an hour is never an hour... and if a pro there are all kinds of costs, and if a wannabee...

The thread is a revitalised version of whats been happening on here since I joined... basically you pay to a point, for what you get..

Pretty sure there is a big difference between say £100 and £1000 (unless you are a new uprising superstar) , but £1,000 to say £10,000 (yes people have paid more) ... it's the name made through years of hard work...
 
sk66 said:
Have you ever been asked to take someones picture for them while out/about? Do you insist on editing the images before giving them their camera back? What's the difference?
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Or make sure you get a credit when they share them on FaceBook!


Steve.
 
sk66 said:
...Have you ever been asked to take someones picture for them while out/about? Do you insist on editing the images before giving them their camera back? What's the difference?
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Is there really a correlation?
I don't even edit all the images I share on social media. But if an image is leaving me with a 'Phil Vaughan Photography' tag attached, it's been quality controlled.

If I went to a chef's house for dinner I'd expect a decent standard of food, but I wouldn't expect him to be sprinkling the micro herbs and giving the plate a final polish like he does in the restaurant.
 
Phil V said:
Is there really a correlation?
I don't even edit all the images I share on social media. But if an image is leaving me with a 'Phil Vaughan Photography' tag attached, it's been quality controlled.
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Sure there is...
Why would it have "Phil Vaughn Photography" attached? They're not going to set up a portfolio with your name attached or watermark the images for you. The only reason your name would get "attached" is either they are extremely happy, or they are extremely unhappy... there's a little button on the camera labeled w/ a trash can for that.

It's one hour for group shots... no reason to take a ton of images, no real chance of "missing the moment," and no real reason for not being able to get the shot. Of course, there won't be any blending of images in post in order to get the "perfect group," oh well...

And there's a potential upsell if they later decide they want professional editing in order to get that "perfect group."
 
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sk66 said:
Sure there is...
Why would it have "Phil Vaughn Photography" attached? They're not going to set up a portfolio with your name attached or watermark the images for you. The only reason your name would get "attached" is either they are extremely happy, or they are extremely unhappy... there's a little button on the camera labeled w/ a trash can for that.

It's one hour for group shots... no reason to take a ton of images, no real chance of "missing the moment," and no real reason for not being able to get the shot. Of course, there won't be any blending of images in post in order to get the "perfect group," oh well...

And there's a potential upsell if they later decide they want professional editing in order to get that "perfect group."
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How would you know? The customer could make a hash of the processing, be really happy with the product and show lots of people and they'd have my name attached. Or he could be unable to cull properly and be p***ed off at the 'quality' and start slagging me off all over social media.

None of those things are likely to happen if I've just took a snap for a friend, whether using their phone or my camera.

ergo. If money has changed hands, the product walking out the door is labelled 'Phil Vaughan Photography', and if it's unedited that raises a question of reputational damage.
 
You could wear a false moustache and dark glasses and go in disguise under a different name to do this kind of work!


Steve.
 
I think the pragmatic solution has already been said - get a keen amateur who might do it for their portfolio. Contact a local camera club and see what they say.
 
In theory I have no issue with giving RAWS out, they're just another business asset I can sell. However I'd want to be sure that doing so actually benefitted my business

Regarding the 1 hr photography, again in theory there is no issue with that..a day in October you may well find someone willing to work for £100/hour. However I question if an hours is enough. Even the most basic ceremony takes time (by the time you've been challenged etc) and I'd have thought two hours
 
sk66 said:
Sure there is...
Why would it have "Phil Vaughn Photography" attached? They're not going to set up a portfolio with your name attached or watermark the images for you. The only reason your name would get "attached" is either they are extremely happy, or they are extremely unhappy... there's a little button on the camera labeled w/ a trash can for that.

It's one hour for group shots... no reason to take a ton of images, no real chance of "missing the moment," and no real reason for not being able to get the shot. Of course, there won't be any blending of images in post in order to get the "perfect group," oh well...

And there's a potential upsell if they later decide they want professional editing in order to get that "perfect group."
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Don't get me wrong, none of this is insurmountable, as I said earlier though, the OP needs to understand the 'ask'.

If a 'local photographer' came to me and asked for me to shoot some images of him, explained how he wanted to process them, why he needed my input etc. we could easily reach an agreement for me to shoot on his card and hand it over (similar to the way we 2nd shoot for others). But the OP hasn't 'thought this through' to the point he's aware of the pitfalls. He just appears to think he's 'cutting down the work to reduce the bill' which isn't even close to how it works.
 
boyfalldown said:
In theory I have no issue with giving RAWS out, they're just another business asset I can sell. However I'd want to be sure that doing so actually benefitted my business

Regarding the 1 hr photography, again in theory there is no issue with that..a day in October you may well find someone willing to work for £100/hour. However I question if an hours is enough. Even the most basic ceremony takes time (by the time you've been challenged etc) and I'd have thought two hours
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It's not !!!

And that's even if it's on your doorstep if your lucky!

Don't forget the driving time and fuel. Planning time, communication time and even charging the battery(s) time prior to and that's even before you get there.

All these essential things are a cost to your time and resources ! Makes no business sense whatsoever.

Simply not worth getting out of bed for in my opinion !
 
If i was receiving unprocessed raw files on a freshly formatted sd card, where would phil vaughn photography watermark appear on the picture??? I have lightroom and quite capable to see if a picture is sharp or not.
All these what ifs and buts getting a little daft now!
 
joncro said:
If i was receiving unprocessed raw files on a freshly formatted sd card, where would phil vaughn photography watermark appear on the picture??? I have lightroom and quite capable to see if a picture is sharp or not.
All these what ifs and buts getting a little daft now!
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It might not appear on the Image, but I bet Phil has set his cameras up to write that information straight to every photos EXIF as soon as its recorded
 
joncro said:
If i was receiving unprocessed raw files on a freshly formatted sd card, where would phil vaughn photography watermark appear on the picture??? I have lightroom and quite capable to see if a picture is sharp or not.
All these what ifs and buts getting a little daft now!
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Ever heard of EXIF data ? - that's where you will find the copy write.
 
Anyway chaps im not being drawn into a agument as to whether what i was asking is right or not. Ultimatley the only person who's opinion matters is the person i ask.
 
joncro said:
Anyway chaps im not being drawn into a agument as to whether what i was asking is right or not. Ultimatley the only person who's opinion matters is the person i ask.
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Wedding Photography always seems to bring out the best in everyone ;) I am sure reading through the thread there is enough useful insight and info for you to be able to make the call and ask the right questions though.
 
joncro said:
If i was receiving unprocessed raw files on a freshly formatted sd card, where would phil vaughn photography watermark appear on the picture??? I have lightroom and quite capable to see if a picture is sharp or not.
All these what ifs and buts getting a little daft now!
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It wouldn't appear anywhere. But it'd be on the contract and the customer would have a link to the business, having made a business transaction.

How is that not obvious?
 
Phil V said:
It wouldn't appear anywhere. But it'd be on the contract and the customer would have a link to the business, having made a business transaction.

How is that not obvious?
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3 words... Cash in hand!
 
joncro said:
Anyway chaps im not being drawn into a agument as to whether what i was asking is right or not. Ultimatley the only person who's opinion matters is the person i ask.
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I'm reminded of Lewis Carroll's cat which spoke to Alice (in Wonderland):-

Alice, "which way should I go?"
Cat " Which way do you want to go?
Alice "I don't know"
Cat " then it doesn't matter does it?"

So you're happy with a 'biased' opinion then ? The answer to want you to hear. That seems fair enough to me. I hope you find the correct answer you are looking for and good luck with your endeavours.
 
joncro said:
Anyway chaps im not being drawn into a agument as to whether what i was asking is right or not. Ultimatley the only person who's opinion matters is the person i ask.
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Absolutely. And you have had some solid advice from people who know the business. Finding a talented amateur is fairly easy, finding a decent pro will cost you a bit more than your £100 but nowhere near a full day. If you look you'll see a recent thread where we discussed ' the smallest number of photo's you've shot at a wedding' and Yes I was once booked to shoot 4, and what I charged wasn't hugely beyond your budget.

But looking for a 'budget photographer' will get you s***e images. And if you like I can PM you some real examples local to me.
 
joncro said:
3 words... Cash in hand!
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You do realise it's in the exif of all our pictures, and no amount of 'pub car park' and 'cash in hand' shenanigans would convince an intelligent person you wouldn't have enough evidence to sue if you were unhappy.
 
joncro said:
Cheers Phil, I will take it all onboard, thanks for your input.
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I'll bet if you put up a 'job offered' post you'd get a bite. And I guarantee that if you get a bite, it'll be better than any local who advertises budget wedding photography.
 
Which would be the best sub forum to post it in Phil? Like i said before, see pictures on here on a daily basis id be happy with.
 
joncro said:
Likely to be s***e ? that's a big statement, are you sure? maybe a critic or a pro photographer may not be impressed with the pictures but i'm pretty sure if someone with a passion or just starting out in professional photography with a 24-70 f2.8 could take more pleasing pictures than a wedding guest with a compact camera.
I've been interested in photography for a couple of years now and i don't claim to be anywhere near your level but i do know my way round a camera.
Thanks for your advice anyway.
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It doesn't matter how good the camera is if there isn't a photographer to use it. Check your camera out, does it have a composition button? Does it shout when you've got a nice dof, "Snap now!"?

I wouldn't be surprised to see a skilled photographer take better photos with a Barbie Doll camera than someone who is unskilled with £50k worth of gear in their hands.

I'm sure you know where all the knobs are on your camera, but the professional wedding photographers posting here have years of experience behind them. That means not only knowing what to do when things go smoothly.

A couple, generally, get married once (at least, to each other that is). Stuff those shots up and there is no re-shoot opportunity.

One of the things separating amateurs and professionals. A professional HAS to get the shots.
 
joncro said:
Ever heard of basic software to remove ALL exif data.
Btw, forgot about the electricity to charge the batteries, good point!
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But if someone is giving images SOOC the exif is intact.
We're telling you what's wrong with your original idea, not saying that what you want to achieve is impossible.

Like I said, I'd happily come to an agreement with another 'photographer' to hand over un-culled, unedited images (and so would most pro's).

BUT that requires a contract and an understanding of exactly what is being agreed. just handing unedited images to 'some geezer off the internet' is asking for trouble and most pro's wouldn't do it because it is simply too much risk.
 
joncro said:
Which would be the best sub forum to post it in Phil? Like i said before, see pictures on here on a daily basis id be happy with.
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The one that's mischievously called 'jobs offered' - they do make it difficult to find :D
 
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