35mm film slr for photography course

jpay

jpay

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Name
Jay
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Hello, seeking advice on a 35mm film slr camera for my new photography course in september, and then into university.

Any advice, tips and direction into purchasing a camera and the necessary equipment will be appreciated.
I have a digital slr so understand the basics, but would like a film slr for myself as the course involves darkroom skills, which im thoroughly excited about.

Thanks in advance,
Jason
 
Hi Jason,


Budget?

Brand preference?

Age of kit preference?

Type of photography you'll be doing?


We need to know things like this in order to narrow down and give targeted advice :)

You could start with a £20 Nikon EM, or a £lol Nikon F6 or a £silly Leica M6. All 35mm, all capable.
 
Woodsy said:
Hi Jason,


Budget?

Brand preference?

Age of kit preference?

Type of photography you'll be doing?


We need to know things like this in order to narrow down and give targeted advice :)

You could start with a £20 Nikon EM, or a £lol Nikon F6 or a £silly Leica M6. All 35mm, all capable.
Click to expand...

Budget, i find hard, reasonable, im not going to be spending big bucks, but dont mind spending up to 150 if it's worth it.
I dont have a brand preference, currently wanting to change from nikon to canon but when using the camera i want two seperate kits.
The photography for the course is going to be varried, landscape and portait, all developing being done by myself. Mostly black and white film being used.

As to the age, i am unsure, obviously asthetically i like the vintage cameras but if they dont perform aswell as the newer models i would comprimise.

Thanks for the help, took me ages to understand digital, especially the purchasing, now back to the beginning.

Jason
 
The usual candidate for photography students is a Pentax K-1000, a mechanical camera from 1975 that was only discontinued in 2001.

However, I would recommend a Pentax ME Super or Super A as they take K-mount lenses that are numerous, their light, easy to operate bodies with a good feature set and they usually sell for a reasonable price. Plus you can use the lenses on all modern Pentax DSLR's as well.
 
I don't think it matters that much which camera you buy as long as it's a fully manual camera with no frills. It should have all you need - an aperture ring (on the lens) a shutter dial and a film speed dial. It will be the best thing you ever do - going right back to basics. (y)
 
£150 Goes a long way in Film SLR terms!

Bear in mind some of the newer base models didn't have manual modes, this may be an issue or may not depending what you're actually going to be taught on this course. The Pentax ME for example is stuck in Aperture priority.

The further back you go then you'll find it's the now defunct.lesser brands who rules the roost so don't be thinking it's just Canon/Nikon - Konica, Minolta and Pentax were the cutting edge for many years. (long before I was born mind)

FWIW I'd happily reccomend ANY of the cameras listed to the left, as well as the Minolta XG-M which I also own. All are very nice to use in their own way, though I'm tending towards my Pentax MX more and more.

Right I've waffled enough, someone elses turn.
 
Olympus OM1n or OM2n if you can find a nice one.

Nikon FM2, FE2 or FA

Pentax Me Super, Super A,

Either of the Olympus cameras or the Nikon FE2 would be my choice, although I did my A' level with a Pentax Super A.
 
This might be strange but i've been hunting on ebay frantically, and all these camera's seem so popular and available, how do i determine a NICE one?

What obvious signs can i look out for?
What questions should i ask my self and the sellers??

Thanks for all the help everyone, greatly appreciated!!!
 
Be wary of eBay cameras - they may be completely dead, badly cared for or poorly packaged and broken during transit. The same applies to any camera that you are buying blind, but since the vast majority of classic film camera sales are through eBay, the general warning to be careful applies to eBay the most.

You'll want to know if it winds properly, how much dirt (if any) is in the viewfinder and on the mirror, if the shutter fires, if the slower shutter speeds are accurate, if there is any fungus on any of the lens elements, if the camera metering is still functional, if there is any corrosion in battery compartments, any major dents/dings that could've potentially broken something, if the camera was ever serviced... that's going to be the sorts of questions you'll want to satisfy with an answer, however many eBay listings are 'I found this camera in the attic' and they know no more about it - check their listings, sometimes you get people who claim to know nothing about cameras, but they seem to have sold an alarming number of them and it's just their way of absolving from responsibility when you end up with a dead camera in your postbox.

Light seals are often also likely to be degrading and falling apart, however this is something that is easy to fix at home with a 'light seal/re-seal kit' from someone like John Goodman - eBay ID is interslice.
 
Have a look on cash converters. They often sell off film SLRs with a pile of lenses. You also get a reasonable warranty which you won't get at all with buying from fleabay. Most of the big camera shops also have lots of old film gear. If you are using it for a course and need it to work it would be better to buy it from a reliable source. I think Harrison cameras offer a 12 month warranty as standard. Lots only offer 6.

http://www.harrisoncameras.net/productdetail.kmod?Productid=11529

£25 with a lens!

http://www.harrisoncameras.net/productdetail.kmod?Productid=1542 £40 for a classic manual camera.

£50 for a classic dynax 5 with lots more bells and whistles:

http://www.harrisoncameras.net/productdetail.kmod?Productid=8414

There's even a contax for £100 with Zeiss 50mm on it. Lots of choice.
 
s162216 said:
...
However, I would recommend a Pentax ME Super or Super A as they take K-mount lenses that are numerous...
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The K-mount is the original bayonet mount and lenses for it fit all Pentax bayonet mount cameras which includes the K1000 as well as a new K-5.

Maybe you mean a "A" vs "M" lens which one has the ability for shutter priority on a K-A mount camera.
 
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Oh, I forgot to say - Jay, the reason why there are so many suggestions and different cameras and manufacturers and combinations is because there were an amazing number of manual film cameras created from the 1950s for decades onwards. My personal preference tends to be cameras of the 1970s - when they were still built like absolute tanks, but also incorporated more useful features like more advanced metering. Cameras of the 60s often had more primitive metering, or no metering at all; for many people this is not an absolute dealbreaker, but if you are starting this for the first time having a built in light meter would be handy.

The other thing is that these are all personal preferences, basically. I like the Pentax MX, others like Nikons of that vintage, others like Canons, others swear by Minolta/Leica/Yashica/take your pick.

AlanSmithee - the Super A was an 1980s Pentax SLR.
 
One of my favourite cameras from the 80s was a Contax 159MM with a 50mm f1.7 Planar just lovely to use.
 
Freecom2 hit the nail on the head, i think... from what ive read, i have contacted local camera shops in the area to see what they have on offer to buy from a shop.
Im going to get rid of the brand snobbery and pay attention to the brands above. I've written them all down so im armed and ready.

Thank you everyone,
as regards to a light meter, what do they do how do they help and how important can they be
 
freecom2 said:
...
My personal preference tends to be cameras of the 1970s - when they were still built like absolute tanks,
Click to expand...

This is a good point when looking for an older film camera. If you buy too old, chances are you need to buck up for a CLA or at a minimum put some new seals on yourself.

AlanSmithee - the Super A was an 1980s Pentax SLR.
Click to expand...
Which will still accept a bayonet "M" lens and a M42 with an adapter of course. You're just in manual mode is all.
 
jpay said:
Thank you everyone,
as regards to a light meter, what do they do how do they help and how important can they be
Click to expand...

At a basic level, you need to know what combination of aperture and shutter speed you need to get a good image on your film (or sensor, for digital). Being indoors where it is darker means you will need a different combination of settings to, say, bright daylight outside. The light meter 'reads' the light in your surroundings and will tell you the right combination of aperture and shutter speed. It's very handy because then you don't have to take a light reading with a separate light meter (which can be costly), and also means shooting is much more streamlined because you can check the metering whilst the camera is at your eye, so it's quicker to get the shots you want.

Light meters often go old with age, and many cameras were built to take mercury batteries to power their light meters, which have now been outlawed. Bear that in mind -there are alternatives available, but cameras which take conventional SR44/LR44 button batteries mean you are more likely to be able to source the battery for less cost and from a wider variety of places.
 
I think all of the cameras mentioned will be fine if you get one in good condition. Actually getting your hands on one before parting with money is a very good idea. It's a near certainty that if the light seals haven't been replaced, they will need doing. I also recommend Jon Goodman's kits for this - they are excellent and it's an easy job to do. (He provides detailed guides on what to do for most of the cameras mentioned.

If the camera you choose already has a built in meter, then I wouldn't bother with a separate light meter. Good ones are expensive, even secondhand. I wouldn't trust any meter that uses a selenium cell (e.g. Weston Masters), as the cells degrade over time. I have an old Gossen LunaPro (CdS cell), which was quite dear and needed an (expensive) adapter to make it work with non-mercury batteries. I only use it when I go out with one of my cameras whose built in selenium meter has failed! It's also good for measuring lower light levels than some camera's built in metering can accommodate, but you would need a tripod to hold the camera still at exposure times greater than 1/15th or 1/30th second before you needed the low light capability.
 
NickT said:
If the camera you choose already has a built in meter, then I wouldn't bother with a separate light meter. Good ones are expensive, even secondhand. I wouldn't trust any meter that uses a selenium cell (e.g. Weston Masters), as the cells degrade over time.
Click to expand...

Whilst true, that doesn't necessarily mean that a selenium cell meter should be avoided completely - my Leningrad still meters pretty accurately compared to my matrix metering, all singing and dancing digital SLR. Yes, many do die and become completely useless, but many Weston Masters, especially the later IV/V models can still be found metering very well.
 
jpay said:
as regards to a light meter, what do they do
Click to expand...
Well they take light readings. :D
how do they help and how important can they be
Click to expand...

They help by being handheld in some ways. For instance you can set up the camera on a tripod for a landscape then use your separate meter to take separate exposure readings of the sky and foreground without disturbing your camera setup. You can in fact take spot readings from various parts of the scene without disturbing your setup.

Better meters will have a 1 degree spot for accurate readings from small and distant parts of your subject and the facility to take incident light readings.

If it has the ability to meter flash as well so much the better - very handy in a studio environment.

If you're using a camera with no metering then some sort of meter is pretty much essential, although not all of the above features are strictly necessary.
 
Jay, I don't know where you're based but there's a whole bunch of us meeting up in London on 30th July for a film extravaganza so if you're anywhere near come down and join us. There will be be more film cameras than you can shake a stick at and you'll be more than welcome to try any of my old fully manual Nikons, Olympus's or a even an old school Pentax S1A.
 
I'd happily recommend a Fujica ST605/n, perfect for learning too - literally the only piece of electronics on it is the light meter. Can be had for next to nothing and M42 lenses go for decent prices.

Would also be worth looking at a later model where the split-prism doesn't occasionally black out - ST705?
 
Jason, if you are based anywhere near Manchester pop into Real Cameras in Dale Street just back from Piccadilly Gardens, its an Aladdin's cave of film cameras and lenses and they really know their stuff.

Andy
 
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s162216 said:
The usual candidate for photography students is a Pentax K-1000, a mechanical camera from 1975 that was only discontinued in 2001.

However, I would recommend a Pentax ME Super or Super A as they take K-mount lenses that are numerous, their light, easy to operate bodies with a good feature set and they usually sell for a reasonable price. Plus you can use the lenses on all modern Pentax DSLR's as well.
Click to expand...

Another vote for a K-1000!(y)

I have four which I use in my workshops. Try to get the old K-mount 50mm f/1.7 lens if you can. This will give you awesome results on Pentax D-SLR bodies although you will have to focus manually.

Good luck!
 
Hello everyone again,
Thanks for all the help, im managing to narrow down some choices.
I have found a K1000 in apparent 'slight signs of wear' condition, with 50mm lens for 59.00 i am quite tempted by this, from ffordes (mentioned in another thread).

Or

the Minolta SRT 101 c/w 50mm F1.4 Lens for 50.00. Which one do people think would be better suited to my course, (i respect people's opinions but as with everything we're all so different)

In respect to the invitiation to london i would really enjoy the opportunity however unfortunatly i am planning on backpacking the saxon shore way that weekend as i break up from work. If friends are reliably unreliable then i might still attend if the invitation still open. I live in south east england so london within distance, anyone know of any good camera shops not too far from margate kent?

THANKS AGAIN

Jason
 
The K1000 is considered the classic starter camera, although I personally think £60 is too much - although if the peace of mind from buying from a dealer and having a dealer issued warranty is your preference, then so be it. Apparently ffordes are quite helpful down the phone, so maybe worth giving them a buzz and asking them to describe the condition down the phone, rather than relying on their (IMO) rather rubbish small images and sparse information given on their product descriptions.

The Minolta - I don't know much about classic Minoltas but the Rokkor glass is meant to be pretty decent, and having that tasty f/1.4 fast prime might be a good bet. Coupled with some reasonably fast film, you can shoot in almost any light (or lack of...)
 
freecom2 said:
The Minolta - I don't know much about classic Minoltas but the Rokkor glass is meant to be pretty decent, and having that tasty f/1.4 fast prime might be a good bet. Coupled with some reasonably fast film, you can shoot in almost any light (or lack of...)
Click to expand...

That sounds inviting, as i am frequently found in buildings in states of irrepair or abandoned airplanes which i stumble across locally and these conditions are beautiful but problamatic. : )

This leads onto another question, which... i could wait until college, however as i have a very obsessive proactive personality want to learn about NOW.
FILM... where, what, and how,

am i right in thinking that the number genuinly associated is something to do with the iso sensitivity? i bought some ilford 400 so, 400iso???

Where do i go for film, black and white to begin with as this is what i'll be developing myself at college and im planning on using my NEW camera when i get it over the summer to collect lotsa film to practice developing with :)
 
jpay said:
i bought some ilford 400 so, 400iso???
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Indeed, it's the ISO sensitivity. Not sure how much you know so please don't think I'm patronising, but lower ISOs like 50/100/200 are less sensitive to light and 400, 800, 1600 and 3200 are more sensitive to light. 100-400 covers most 'general' use.

jpay said:
Where do i go for film, black and white to begin with as this is what i'll be developing myself at college and im planning on using my NEW camera when i get it over the summer to collect lotsa film to practice developing with :)
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7dayshop stocks a decent range and it is the cheapest in the UK. Postage is a bit slow but there we are. Follow this link for 35mm B&W film (but don't buy the Neopan 400CN or BW400CN as these are B&W films to be developed in colour chemistry). 7dayshop don't stock Ilford films, which are another popular manufacturer of film - try Silverprint or AG Photographic. If you are getting through lots of film, 7dayshop have lower prices if you buy more (you can see on the pages) - you may get the suggestion to use a bulk loader and bulk reel of film (it's 30.5m of film that you roll yourself into an empty cartridge) but if you don't have access to a bulk loader it can often be more expensive than just buying film as per normal.
 
freecom2 THANKS, lol. endless help.

I will have access to a bulk loader at college when i go, i was talking to the tutors about them, but think i will buy some from 7dayshop to keep me going until then...

Get the film before the camera always seems to be a good idea.
Also, i have emailed harrison camera's regarding their minolta i mentioned previously, becuase i was given a minolta dynax which is semi automatic and has aperture control in camera etc... will my lenses fit the fully manual camera?!?

Also, as with most peoples replies you all seem to have a collection of film cameras, is this because you all like me and like to buy and one never seems enough,

or is it the reason that you use one for black and white and one for colour, as i have seen this as an excuse to my sensible side to get two of the advised cameras and see how i get on.

2 is better than 1
 
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I'm afraid its because we are gear whores and film cameras are shuper shexy...... oh, and cheap

Andy
 
It's no problem at all - I was helped out greatly by fora and the internet, and hopefully one day when you have picked up more experience you'll also be doing the same :) it's great fun, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

I don't shoot enough to even bother considering bulk loading (truth is, with 35mm I barely shoot enough to even consider using 35mm at all!) but if you are going to burn through lots of film, keep it in mind. However, I'd try out a few different makes and emulsions - they are all different and give different results. That way, you don't buy a bulk roll of film and find out you don't like it with another 29 metres of the stuff to shoot!

I know Minoltas have kept the same lens mount for a long time, but hopefully someone will be able to give you more information on that.

I have a collection of film cameras because, well, I can. I've got rid of several, but I have a Pentax MX as my go-to 35mm camera, a Pentax K1000 because it's the grandad of all manual film cameras, a Nikon F2 because it's just the most legendary tank-like hand-built film camera, and a Yashica Mat because I wanted to get into medium format film.
 
I've got a long way to go before i can start guiding others, however the help is greatfully appreciated and everybody has helped out a lot.

Sounds like a plan, think i'll get a few different now to save on postage and try and label the containers for when i do develop the film i know what ones used what.

I feel like i will get a COLLECTION :) of film cameras in years to come! Asthetically they rape digital cameras!
 
jpay said:
Also, as with most peoples replies you all seem to have a collection of film cameras, is this because you all like me and like to buy and one never seems enough,

or is it the reason that you use one for black and white and one for colour, as i have seen this as an excuse to my sensible side to get two of the advised cameras and see how i get on.

2 is better than 1
Click to expand...

Well - I have definitely been known to go out with 2 matching EOS-3 bodies (one of which being borrowed) one loaded with B&W and the other colour, yep. Though back when I was doing this, digital was something like the canon EOS D2000 - 2 megapixels of loveliness for the price of 1 kidney and your first born child!.

Now I've got a 35mm rangefinder, a classic late 70's 35mm SLR, a late 80's 35mm SLR, and a couple of late 90's full AF 35mm SLR's. I've also got a late 50's 120 folding pocket camera, a nice chunky 120 SLR camera, and a couple of plastic toy 120 cameras.

The reason i've got all this kit is simple - partly sentimental, partly because they all have their own strenths, and partly I'm a pack-rat and once I've bought something, unless it ends up getting nicked, It's mine for the duration. Well - unless I decide to send one of them on tour that is :LOL:
 
I have decided to go for the Minolta SRT 101 c/w 50mm F1.4 Lens from harrison cameras, thanks for the link Srichards.
Eagerly awaiting it's arrival with the 4 rolls of film and flash unit, all including postage for 70pound.

The customer service was brilliant and i have had a very pleasent expierience both in this thread and with harrison cameras themselves. Would recommend and definatly use them again.

Thanks everybody for the help, i hope to be posting in here more often, im sure i'll come up with more questions. And hopefully start bringing some images.

Jason Pay

NEVER STOP EXPLORING!
 
I did my photography course at college with a Practika MTL-3 - it's big, it's heavy, but it's solid as a rock. All manual, so you've got to learn the basics, but I like the mirror-down thing it does to allow you to see how the photo will turn out.

:deleted: Please keep any trading in the classifieds.
 
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jpay said:
I have decided to go for the Minolta SRT 101 c/w 50mm F1.4 Lens from harrison cameras, thanks for the link Srichards.
Eagerly awaiting it's arrival with the 4 rolls of film and flash unit, all including postage for 70pound.

The customer service was brilliant and i have had a very pleasent expierience both in this thread and with harrison cameras themselves. Would recommend and definatly use them again.

Thanks everybody for the help, i hope to be posting in here more often, im sure i'll come up with more questions. And hopefully start bringing some images.

Jason Pay

NEVER STOP EXPLORING!
Click to expand...

Well I have that camera and lens as well, excellent camera but does use the old mercury battery for the meter and the only disadvantage is that Minolta lenses are more scarce and more expensive....of course many other makes of lenses are made for Minolta, and also you can get an adapter to use M42 screw lenses e.g. Pentax and also an adapter to use Tamron lenses.
 
excalibur2 said:
Well I have that camera and lens as well, excellent camera but does use the old mercury battery for the meter and the only disadvantage is that Minolta lenses are more scarce and more expensive....of course many other makes of lenses are made for Minolta, and also you can get an adapter to use M42 screw lenses e.g. Pentax and also an adapter to use Tamron lenses.
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Minolta lenese are far from expensive, they're some of the cheapest you can get! Although it'll look totally wrong on the SRT101 (A Camera I really want as it happens!) the 45mm Panacake is an outstanding lens, as I keep mentioning!
 
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