3rd Macro Day

[chrispp]

HI Thanks for the great advice I have received so far from the forum members, has given me some great inspiration

Well carried out an excercise Nick mentioned below, felt strange taking pictures of a brick wall but hey ho had me thinking.

Good move. But plenty more than a couple! For example, for natural light, if you use five different distances, seven different shutter speeds and five shots of each combination, you will have 5 x 7 x 5 = 175 images to look at. And yes, I'm serious. This is the sort of thing I do to try to understand what is going on. For example, in this album at Flickr there are 60 shots (in fives as I suggested above) that I captured and examined looking for evidence of shutter shock with one of my camera/lens combinations. It is tedious to do tests like this, but a single test like this can often give you a much better understanding of what is going on and what the limits are for what you can do and what settings will work.

For natural light I suggest you try several distances, starting with as close as you can get. I suggest using autofocus for these tests, and start the series with shots as close to the wall as you can get autofocus to work. Take five shots at each of at least five different shutter speeds (25 shots), and preferably seven shutter speeds (35 shots) if you can arrange that. Then increase the distance and repeat, for several distances.
If you have image stabilisation, make sure it is on.
Use single, centre point focus and focus on the same place for all the shots.
Change ISO (and use a neutral density filter if you have one) to change the shutter speeds, leaving the aperture at f/11 if you can. If you can use f/11 for all the shots that would be good, but especially if you don't have a variable neutral density filter I expect you'll need to change the aperture to get some of the shutter speeds you want,

For flash you won't need nearly as many shots.
I suggest using manual mode on the camera and TTL mode on the flash. Set the camera to flash sync speed (probably 1/250 sec on your 7D) and the flash exposure compensation to zero.
Set the aperture to f/11.
Set the ISO to 100.
Stabilisation can be on or off. It (probably) doesn't matter.
Use autofocus.
Take five shots as close as you can get autofocus to work.
Move out and take five more shots. Repeat, increasing the distance several times.

You may find that the images get darker as you move out. That will mean that your flash is working at maximum power but still can't provide enough light. In that case you'll need to increase the ISO to get a properly exposed image.

On your PC you can compare the natural light images with one another to see what shutter speed you need for sharp images.

You can also compare the flash images with the natural light images to see if the flash images are sharper and look more detailed.

I'm assuming in all this that you will be using the viewfinder and not live view using the LCD. If this is the case, I suggest that when using flash, for at least one of the distances (the closest but one distance may be good for this), after you have taken five shots using the viewfinder put the camera in live view mode and take another five shots from the same distance. On your PC compare the viewfinder shots with the live view shots. If the live view shots are sharper/more detailed you may need to do a micro focus adjustment (MFA). More on that later if needs be.

I sort of settled on F11 and 1/100 ISO increased to keep these settings etc and this is where I am now

180815041Fly 100 by Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

Altered slightly to this F3.5 1/250 ISO 320 for the ladybug

180815042LadyBug by
Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

And this F11 1/60 ISO 100

180815043Fly YF by Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

I just can't seem to keep the aperture to F11 and SS to 1/100 Tried manual and aperture priority

Any help gratefully appreciated

Chris

 

[TimmyG]

Good work Chris! My first thoughts are that these seem quite noisy.

I note from your EXIF information you are using a 1D Mark III (nice!) so for a full frame camera these seem particularly bad for ISO 100. So, two questions:

• Are you adjusting exposure or shadows much in post?
• Are you cropping much?

For the ladybird image, you've knocked aperture down to F3.5. This is very low, especially at this magnification (I'm assuming it is approaching 1:1 here). You've caught the tip of an antenna that is sharp, and maybe part of a foot, but not much else. Stopping down would increase your chances of getting the eyes in and at this magnification you should be able to comfortably stop down to about F13 without the effects of diffraction being noticeable...Nick will tell you even higher . If you wanted a more creative look, you could open up to F8 maybe.. even a bit wider, but F3.5 is a bit over the top IMO and you are only making it difficult for yourself to get good focus.

I assume the main reason you want to open up the aperture is to get a good exposure on the background and prevent light fall off. This is definitely a good thing, however, there are better ways of doing it. You were shooting at 1/250, which is pretty quick. If you switch your flash off and take a shot (at ISO 100) you'll likely get a completely black image. This tells you the scene is being solely lit by the flash, so if there is nothing in the background for the light to hit, you will get the typical black background, with just the bug and leaf being exposed. For this type of scene you can comfortably knock your shutter speed down to 1/60th, maybe even a bit slower (I note you have done this to good effect with the greenbottle image). As you are using flash you can pretty much ignore the focal length/shutter speed rule (i.e. for 100mm shoot at 1/100th or above). If there subject moves you may get a bit of ghosting as it gets exposed by the flash and the ambient light, but this is just something to be aware of and play around with.

At the same time you can also increase your ISO. You have a nice big sensor and low (by todays standards) MP count, so in theory it should have great low light capabilities. Don't worry about increasing this to ISO 400 or even higher.

Basically any issues you are having are largely arising as a result of your lighting. I think you could do some more work on diffusing as the bluebottle shows some quite harsh highlights. Is your flash delivering enough light? Is your diffusion material blocking too much? I'm just wondering (due to the noise concerns) that you may be underexposing a bit. Are you using manual flash settings or ETTL? For these type of shots I find a good technique if using the latter is to switch off the flash and expose the scene 1 stop under the correct exposure (I just use the camera's light meter to do this). When you switch the flash back on it should give you a good balance between ambient light and flash exposure on the subject.

HTHs

 

[chrispp]

Good work Chris! My first thoughts are that these seem quite noisy.

I note from your EXIF information you are using a 1D Mark III (nice!) so for a full frame camera these seem particularly bad for ISO 100. So, two questions:

• Are you adjusting exposure or shadows much in post?
• Are you cropping much?

For the ladybird image, you've knocked aperture down to F3.5. This is very low, especially at this magnification (I'm assuming it is approaching 1:1 here). You've caught the tip of an antenna that is sharp, and maybe part of a foot, but not much else. Stopping down would increase your chances of getting the eyes in and at this magnification you should be able to comfortably stop down to about F13 without the effects of diffraction being noticeable...Nick will tell you even higher . If you wanted a more creative look, you could open up to F8 maybe.. even a bit wider, but F3.5 is a bit over the top IMO and you are only making it difficult for yourself to get good focus.

I assume the main reason you want to open up the aperture is to get a good exposure on the background and prevent light fall off. This is definitely a good thing, however, there are better ways of doing it. You were shooting at 1/250, which is pretty quick. If you switch your flash off and take a shot (at ISO 100) you'll likely get a completely black image. This tells you the scene is being solely lit by the flash, so if there is nothing in the background for the light to hit, you will get the typical black background, with just the bug and leaf being exposed. For this type of scene you can comfortably knock your shutter speed down to 1/60th, maybe even a bit slower (I note you have done this to good effect with the greenbottle image). As you are using flash you can pretty much ignore the focal length/shutter speed rule (i.e. for 100mm shoot at 1/100th or above). If there subject moves you may get a bit of ghosting as it gets exposed by the flash and the ambient light, but this is just something to be aware of and play around with.

At the same time you can also increase your ISO. You have a nice big sensor and low (by todays standards) MP count, so in theory it should have great low light capabilities. Don't worry about increasing this to ISO 400 or even higher.

Basically any issues you are having are largely arising as a result of your lighting. I think you could do some more work on diffusing as the bluebottle shows some quite harsh highlights. Is your flash delivering enough light? Is your diffusion material blocking too much? I'm just wondering (due to the noise concerns) that you may be underexposing a bit. Are you using manual flash settings or ETTL? For these type of shots I find a good technique if using the latter is to switch off the flash and expose the scene 1 stop under the correct exposure (I just use the camera's light meter to do this). When you switch the flash back on it should give you a good balance between ambient light and flash exposure on the subject.

HTHs

Thanks feedback is what I need, good or bad ! in my mind I was setting the aperture at around f3.5 speed around the 1/100 mark and altered the ISO to keep it around this.
Ill try again increasing the aperture to the F11 range and reduce the speed etc.
I am cropping to 50% ish but will look to reduce to keep the detail.Your right about the flash I am using a 430 and will knock up some type of diffusion need to have a think about that. I use ETTL on the flash. I think ill try to take the shots without the flash and see where I get to with that.

Am I right to consider the following ?

Closer I am smaller aperture
Reduce the speed to circa 1/60
Look to diffuse the flash
If manual setting both the speed and aperture and alter the ISO to regulate
Aperture priority compensate with over exposing

Thanks Chris

 

[LCPete]

I can't add to Tim's excellent advice but just want to say the composition and angle of the ladybird shot is excellent and as Tim said just needs more of it in focus

 

[LCPete]

Hi Chris you mentioned not using flash (natural light shots ) that's actually what I prefer to do
I have to raise the ISO up tho I'm usually on 800 on my 7D2 but noise isn't a problem if the exposure is right
For small subjects where you are at the minimum focus distance you are probably better off with flash tho as it's hard to get a high enough shutter speed at higher magnification

 

[TimmyG]

Thanks feedback is what I need, good or bad!

Hope my post didn't come over as negative. You are making great progress and doing all the right things!

I am cropping to 50% ish but will look to reduce to keep the detail.

Ok, that might be explaining the artifacts I am seeing. Is there scope to get closer to the subject with your lens? Obviously getting closer to the bugs without spooking them off is a whole skill in itself....

Your right about the flash I am using a 430 and will knock up some type of diffusion need to have a think about that. I use ETTL on the flash. I think ill try to take the shots without the flash and see where I get to with that.

Getting the lighting right is where you will make the biggest leaps forward. Have a look through the macro gear thread for ideas on where to go with this...

Am I right to consider the following ?

Closer I am smaller aperture

To a certain extent, but no, not really. Sorry, it's not that simple For low magnification work (1:1 or less) then you could say this. Certainly if you compare taking shots of an elephant say, whilst on safari with a 400mm lens, then you could very likely get the whole elephant in at the widest aperture (F4 say...). In reality, you would likely stop down a bit as the lens will perform better slightly stopped down, but the point is you won't be able to get a whole ladybird in at that kind of aperture when you are much nearly the subject (as you have seen). As you know, stopping down will increase your DoF but you can't do this indefinitely. For the type of stuff you are doing at the moment, don't worry too much about it, and stop down as you get closer. You may will reach a point where this isn't really working out as you like though and there are two other factors to consider.

The first is that as you get closer, or more accurately, as magnification increases, the amount of light hitting the sensor goes down. This is largely due to the additional gizmos that get added to your lens to increase the magnification capabilities. You might use extension tubes to move the lens further away from the sensor plane, increasing magnification, but increasing the distance the light must travel to hit your sensor. Alternatively you might add lens adapters, which adds to the amount of glass the light must travel through. Anyway, the result is that at some point you will start getting exposure issues at high magnification and if you don't want to push your iso any higher, or reduce your shutter speed significantly, you are going have to open up the aperture, and forfeit DoF...

The second issue is diffraction. As you close down your aperture beyond a certain point, you will begin to lose detail. This is why landscape photographers don't just stop down their lenses as much as possible, and try to find a sweet spot for large DoF and detail (they'll spend ages worrying about the hyperfocal distance of a lens at certain apertures for example). It is a result of the way light "bends" as it goes through the aperture opening, and this increases as the hole gets smaller. Macro photographers have the joys of this effect getting worse as magnification goes up (have a read about "effective aperture" and magnification). Ultimately, as you get closer, if you want to retain detail you'll have to open up your aperture, again sacrificing DoF.

As mentioned, for the time being don't get overly worried about these concepts. It's good to be aware of them though, and there is plenty of additional reading you can do on these subjects.

Reduce the speed to circa 1/60

Yes, but again, not so simple. For these types of shots, give it a try! That seems to be a reasonable speed, especially for static subjects,but if you aren't using flash you'll need to be shooting at much higher speeds to get sharp images (or look to use a tripod etc.) To get good background exposure keep your shutter speed low, iso up and use the flash to give some fill light and to help freeze the action. You'll need to play around with all of these depending on the current shooting situation

Look to diffuse the flash

Absolutely. The better quality of light you can achieve the better images you will get. Get this right and you are sorted!

If manual setting both the speed and aperture and alter the ISO to regulate

Yep, obviously you will have a limit here before noise issues become unbearable, but I think you have room to experiment.

Aperture priority compensate with over exposing

No, get your exposure right in camera as much as possible. Amend aperture, shutter speed and ISO to find the right balance.

Hi Chris you mentioned not using flash (natural light shots ) that's actually what I prefer to do
I have to raise the ISO up tho I'm usually on 800 on my 7D2 but noise isn't a problem if the exposure is right
For small subjects where you are at the minimum focus distance you are probably better off with flash tho as it's hard to get a high enough shutter speed at higher magnification

Yep, as Pete says the high ISO is needed to be able to get a fast enough shutter speed. If not using flash you will need a much higher shutter speed to be able to get sharp shots. The focal length/shutter speed rule will likely apply in these situations.

 

[chrispp]

Hope my post didn't come over as negative. You are making great progress and doing all the right things!


Ok, that might be explaining the artifacts I am seeing. Is there scope to get closer to the subject with your lens? Obviously getting closer to the bugs without spooking them off is a whole skill in itself....


Getting the lighting right is where you will make the biggest leaps forward. Have a look through the macro gear thread for ideas on where to go with this...

To a certain extent, but no, not really. Sorry, it's not that simple For low magnification work (1:1 or less) then you could say this. Certainly if you compare taking shots of an elephant say, whilst on safari with a 400mm lens, then you could very likely get the whole elephant in at the widest aperture (F4 say...). In reality, you would likely stop down a bit as the lens will perform better slightly stopped down, but the point is you won't be able to get a whole ladybird in at that kind of aperture when you are much nearly the subject (as you have seen). As you know, stopping down will increase your DoF but you can't do this indefinitely. For the type of stuff you are doing at the moment, don't worry too much about it, and stop down as you get closer. You may will reach a point where this isn't really working out as you like though and there are two other factors to consider.

The first is that as you get closer, or more accurately, as magnification increases, the amount of light hitting the sensor goes down. This is largely due to the additional gizmos that get added to your lens to increase the magnification capabilities. You might use extension tubes to move the lens further away from the sensor plane, increasing magnification, but increasing the distance the light must travel to hit your sensor. Alternatively you might add lens adapters, which adds to the amount of glass the light must travel through. Anyway, the result is that at some point you will start getting exposure issues at high magnification and if you don't want to push your iso any higher, or reduce your shutter speed significantly, you are going have to open up the aperture, and forfeit DoF...

The second issue is diffraction. As you close down your aperture beyond a certain point, you will begin to lose detail. This is why landscape photographers don't just stop down their lenses as much as possible, and try to find a sweet spot for large DoF and detail (they'll spend ages worrying about the hyperfocal distance of a lens at certain apertures for example). It is a result of the way light "bends" as it goes through the aperture opening, and this increases as the hole gets smaller. Macro photographers have the joys of this effect getting worse as magnification goes up (have a read about "effective aperture" and magnification). Ultimately, as you get closer, if you want to retain detail you'll have to open up your aperture, again sacrificing DoF.

As mentioned, for the time being don't get overly worried about these concepts. It's good to be aware of them though, and there is plenty of additional reading you can do on these subjects.

Yes, but again, not so simple. For these types of shots, give it a try! That seems to be a reasonable speed, especially for static subjects,but if you aren't using flash you'll need to be shooting at much higher speeds to get sharp images (or look to use a tripod etc.) To get good background exposure keep your shutter speed low, iso up and use the flash to give some fill light and to help freeze the action. You'll need to play around with all of these depending on the current shooting situation
Absolutely. The better quality of light you can achieve the better images you will get. Get this right and you are sorted!

Yep, obviously you will have a limit here before noise issues become unbearable, but I think you have room to experiment.

No, get your exposure right in camera as much as possible. Amend aperture, shutter speed and ISO to find the right balance.


Yep, as Pete says the high ISO is needed to be able to get a fast enough shutter speed. If not using flash you will need a much higher shutter speed to be able to get sharp shots. The focal length/shutter speed rule will likely apply in these situations.

This is great advice really appreciated. I'll take on board your comments and have another go tomorrow weather permitting. I might try some small coins as an experiment tonight just to keep me motivated !
Seriously many thanks for your help and advice really appreciated Chris

 

[chrispp]

Hope my post didn't come over as negative. You are making great progress and doing all the right things!


Ok, that might be explaining the artifacts I am seeing. Is there scope to get closer to the subject with your lens? Obviously getting closer to the bugs without spooking them off is a whole skill in itself....


Getting the lighting right is where you will make the biggest leaps forward. Have a look through the macro gear thread for ideas on where to go with this...

To a certain extent, but no, not really. Sorry, it's not that simple For low magnification work (1:1 or less) then you could say this. Certainly if you compare taking shots of an elephant say, whilst on safari with a 400mm lens, then you could very likely get the whole elephant in at the widest aperture (F4 say...). In reality, you would likely stop down a bit as the lens will perform better slightly stopped down, but the point is you won't be able to get a whole ladybird in at that kind of aperture when you are much nearly the subject (as you have seen). As you know, stopping down will increase your DoF but you can't do this indefinitely. For the type of stuff you are doing at the moment, don't worry too much about it, and stop down as you get closer. You may will reach a point where this isn't really working out as you like though and there are two other factors to consider.

The first is that as you get closer, or more accurately, as magnification increases, the amount of light hitting the sensor goes down. This is largely due to the additional gizmos that get added to your lens to increase the magnification capabilities. You might use extension tubes to move the lens further away from the sensor plane, increasing magnification, but increasing the distance the light must travel to hit your sensor. Alternatively you might add lens adapters, which adds to the amount of glass the light must travel through. Anyway, the result is that at some point you will start getting exposure issues at high magnification and if you don't want to push your iso any higher, or reduce your shutter speed significantly, you are going have to open up the aperture, and forfeit DoF...

The second issue is diffraction. As you close down your aperture beyond a certain point, you will begin to lose detail. This is why landscape photographers don't just stop down their lenses as much as possible, and try to find a sweet spot for large DoF and detail (they'll spend ages worrying about the hyperfocal distance of a lens at certain apertures for example). It is a result of the way light "bends" as it goes through the aperture opening, and this increases as the hole gets smaller. Macro photographers have the joys of this effect getting worse as magnification goes up (have a read about "effective aperture" and magnification). Ultimately, as you get closer, if you want to retain detail you'll have to open up your aperture, again sacrificing DoF.

As mentioned, for the time being don't get overly worried about these concepts. It's good to be aware of them though, and there is plenty of additional reading you can do on these subjects.

Yes, but again, not so simple. For these types of shots, give it a try! That seems to be a reasonable speed, especially for static subjects,but if you aren't using flash you'll need to be shooting at much higher speeds to get sharp images (or look to use a tripod etc.) To get good background exposure keep your shutter speed low, iso up and use the flash to give some fill light and to help freeze the action. You'll need to play around with all of these depending on the current shooting situation
Absolutely. The better quality of light you can achieve the better images you will get. Get this right and you are sorted!

Yep, obviously you will have a limit here before noise issues become unbearable, but I think you have room to experiment.

No, get your exposure right in camera as much as possible. Amend aperture, shutter speed and ISO to find the right balance.


Yep, as Pete says the high ISO is needed to be able to get a fast enough shutter speed. If not using flash you will need a much higher shutter speed to be able to get sharp shots. The focal length/shutter speed rule will likely apply in these situations.

TimmyG, Think I'm there with the aperture and the detail, took loads of pics of a £ on its edge at varying speeds ISO and aperture from f3.2 to f32 all with a flash and can see now the detail, sharpness etc between the three. Im definitly going to look at the aperture more. Going to have another bash perhaps in the morning



f10_1_60_ISO320 by Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

f3_2_1_60_ISO400 by Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

f32_1_60_ISO400 by Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

Thanks and gratitude to the kind members who have helped me out

Chris

 

[TimmyG]

TimmyG, Think I'm there with the aperture and the detail, took loads of pics of a £ on its edge at varying speeds ISO and aperture from f3.2 to f32 all with a flash and can see now the detail, sharpness etc between the three. Im definitly going to look at the aperture more. Going to have another bash perhaps in the morning



f10_1_60_ISO320 by Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

f3_2_1_60_ISO400 by Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

f32_1_60_ISO400 by Chris_Pritchard1, on Flickr

Thanks and gratitude to the kind members who have helped me out

Chris

Excellent! Good examples. You may need to do some pixel peeping, but it should be apparent that the details are much less sharp at F32, even though DoF is at it's greatest. Note also how the background is much brighter with the wider aperture, but you have compromised on the DoF to get it there. It's all about balancing the three attributes (shutter speed, aperture and iso) along with flash when required, to get the results you want. We can give you ball-park settings for some scenarios, but they will be specific for every session (often changing rapidly during a shooting session depending on changing light and where you are pointing your lens). Ultimately the best approach is to figure out how each of these settings impacts the final exposure and the best way to do that is to try it for yourself; which is exactly what you are doing. Good stuff

 

[GardenersHelper]

Nice thread. Excellent interaction. Rapid progress. It's a pleasure to follow. Well done all.

 

[Tintin124]

Just to chime in .... 1/60s seems very slow even for flash especially handheld suspect @TimmyG read it as 1/160s which is my go to setting with flash. Though most use highest sync speed for the flash.

You are making progress which is good to see and learning fast off other which is what I love about this forum.

 

[chrispp]

Just to chime in .... 1/60s seems very slow even for flash especially handheld suspect @TimmyG read it as 1/160s which is my go to setting with flash. Though most use highest sync speed for the flash.

You are making progress which is good to see and learning fast off other which is what I love about this forum.[/QUOTE
Many thanks for the feedback really appreciated, what do you think ? I have been trying to concentrate more on he dof and keeping the aperture around 10 etc and slowing the ss down and raising the iso to compensate ? I need to work on the flash a little more perhaps ill read the book. A lot of the pictures seem over exposed with the flash so i am thinking I could reduce the power if I can work out how to do ?

Chris

 

[Carlh]

Only just caught up with your threads Chris, your work is great for just a few goes (am yet to get onto your fourth of which no doubt you've took in some tips from this thread) but Tim hit the nail on the head and congrats and a big slap on the back for your progress - cant fault that, just some tweaking and you should get some really good images.

If your flash is overpowering, just drop the aperture down, the more its down, the more detail you're going to get. Dont be worried about F13/F14 or even lower (F18/F22) if need be and pop the ISO up to 200 or 400, a little noise wont matter (and if you have some noise reduction software all the better though try and not overdo that either as it can soften the image more than help it)

 

[chrispp]

Only just caught up with your threads Chris, your work is great for just a few goes (am yet to get onto your fourth of which no doubt you've took in some tips from this thread) but Tim hit the nail on the head and congrats and a big slap on the back for your progress - cant fault that, just some tweaking and you should get some really good images.

If your flash is overpowering, just drop the aperture down, the more its down, the more detail you're going to get. Dont be worried about F13/F14 or even lower (F18/F22) if need be and pop the ISO up to 200 or 400, a little noise wont matter (and if you have some noise reduction software all the better though try and not overdo that either as it can soften the image more than help it)

Thanks Carl, I'll try out your advice. The noise software i use Adobe Bridge, Raw to change to JPEG and Photoshop for the last few tweaks. I'll look at the options for noise reduction in these. Have you any other thoughts on software for this ?

Thanks

Chris

 

[Tintin124]

Many thanks for the feedback really appreciated, what do you think ? I have been trying to concentrate more on he dof and keeping the aperture around 10 etc and slowing the ss down and raising the iso to compensate ? I need to work on the flash a little more perhaps ill read the book. A lot of the pictures seem over exposed with the flash so i am thinking I could reduce the power if I can work out how to do ?

Chris

My go to settings when starting is 1/200s flash set to 1/16 power and f11... ISO 200.

I think you are over thinking this which is throwing you off. Lighting is the the key and once improved you will see more advanced improvement than anything else you do.

 

[AdamSi]

Really good to see macro has really captured your attention and lovely to read and see your progress keep them coming

 

[chrispp]

Really good to see macro has really captured your attention and lovely to read and see your progress keep them coming

My go to settings when starting is 1/200s flash set to 1/16 power and f11... ISO 200.

I think you are over thinking this which is throwing you off. Lighting is the the key and once improved you will see more advanced improvement than anything else you do.

Both, really thankful for your feedback much appreciated. Got some work on my DOF and SS.

Tintin124 you mentioned setting your flash to 1/16 power, would that be for a ring flash ? Or something similar to my homemade setup, curious ? I'll try out flash settings to see what effect it has

Once again many thanks for your replies

Chris

 

[Tintin124]

Both, really thankful for your feedback much appreciated. Got some work on my DOF and SS.

Tintin124 you mentioned setting your flash to 1/16 power, would that be for a ring flash ? Or something similar to my homemade setup, curious ? I'll try out flash settings to see what effect it has

Once again many thanks for your replies

Chris

Both... ringflash and positioned flash. Though I haven't used ringflash in ages as dont like the light from it. Too hard to diffuse though George has a good method.

 

[TimmyG]

1/60s seems very slow even for flash especially handheld suspect @TimmyG read it as 1/160s which is my go to setting with flash. Though most use highest sync speed for the flash.

You are right it is very slow, but sometimes necessary if you want to balance exposure of the background. I got an example today in the garden:

Exposing for the background by Tim Garlick, on Flickr

Not one of my better ones admittedly, but a good illustration of the point. Here the background is quite far from the subject. In order to expose it I had to increase my ISO to 1600, which is higher than I would usually like (I usually try to limit myself to ISO 800 with my camera) You can see when you pixel peep that detail is being lost to noise. My aperture was also much wider than I would have liked. At F10 it still wasn't enough to get the spiders legs, it's eyes and it's prey into focus, so unless I went for a stack, I couldn't open up anymore to let more light in. My only option now was to reduce the shutter, and as it happens, to get the correct exposure I had to drop it down to (you guessed it!) 1/60th.

This was during quite a bright sunny time of the day, but it was particularly windy which is where I am also losing some sharpness. In fact, I could have stopped down a bit more as I over exposed by half a stop when introducing the flash, but you get the idea. I was also taking shots of the solitary bees visiting the flowers. These ended up with fewer keepers as many had ghosting at such low shutter speeds, but some were "successful." On a good day, with a calm motionless subject and with the correct support for the lens, 1/60th should be entirely possible and preferable to adding too much noise or losing DoF.

At 1/160th, maybe even 1/100th I would have severely underexposed the background or it would have been completely black. Sadly I didn't have my wits about me or I would have repeated the shot with those settings to illustrate the difference.

 

[chrispp]

You are right it is very slow, but sometimes necessary if you want to balance exposure of the background. I got an example today in the garden:

Exposing for the background by Tim Garlick, on Flickr

Not one of my better ones admittedly, but a good illustration of the point. Here the background is quite far from the subject. In order to expose it I had to increase my ISO to 1600, which is higher than I would usually like (I usually try to limit myself to ISO 800 with my camera) You can see when you pixel peep that detail is being lost to noise. My aperture was also much wider than I would have liked. At F10 it still wasn't enough to get the spiders legs, it's eyes and it's prey into focus, so unless I went for a stack, I couldn't open up anymore to let more light in. My only option now was to reduce the shutter, and as it happens, to get the correct exposure I had to drop it down to (you guessed it!) 1/60th.

This was during quite a bright sunny time of the day, but it was particularly windy which is where I am also losing some sharpness. In fact, I could have stopped down a bit more as I over exposed by half a stop when introducing the flash, but you get the idea. I was also taking shots of the solitary bees visiting the flowers. These ended up with fewer keepers as many had ghosting at such low shutter speeds, but some were "successful." On a good day, with a calm motionless subject and with the correct support for the lens, 1/60th should be entirely possible and preferable to adding too much noise or losing DoF.

At 1/160th, maybe even 1/100th I would have severely underexposed the background or it would have been completely black. Sadly I didn't have my wits about me or I would have repeated the shot with those settings to illustrate the difference.

TimmyG all this is great for me, you can't buy this advice in my opinion better than one on one tuition. I'm gaining vast experience with my macro photography but feel I may need to slow down a tad and take stock and concentrate on the basics and getting my skills honed on that. I take on board all comments and revisit what I have done and try out the different suggestions and advice to gain better knowledge

I wouldn't be where I am now if it wasn't for the forum and the kind replies and comments

Thanks again

Chris

 

[Tintin124]

Not one of my better ones admittedly

Says it all really

Sharpness is key as you already know Tim, and this shot would be straight in your bin normally or not even processed. 1/60s for a beginner is not a great suggestion as you are adding ambient in the mix which then in turn introduces handshake and other sharpness issues, and think Chris should take his time and if he gets black backgrounds so be it.

@chrispp though do listen to Tim as he got me very far into Macro constantly pushing me forward up to a point I was comfortable.

 

[TimmyG]

Sharpness is key as you already know Tim, and this shot would be straight in your bin normally or not even processed.

LOL, can't argue with that