3rd -Party Printer Ink Suggestions

YoshiK1

YoshiK1

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Does anyone have a pro printer where they use 3rd party inks? I've a Canon Pro100S and the inks are damn expensive especially since I need to replace them all this time due to not printing in a long time.

If so, can you recommend any ink refill systems that are true to their colours they're trying to match, have good light fastness (won't fade quickly i.e. within 100 years) that also work and don't get read errors etc.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Ive used OctoInkJet on a Pro100 in the past with lots of success.

But no third party ink manufacturer will guarantee 100 year fade (and neither will most OEMs!!)
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I'll check them out thanks!

Oh wait, I remember it kinda wrong. I got the 100 year from the ChromaLife100+ inks for the Pro100S and looking at it again this is what they said about them.

'Canon's ChromaLife100+ dye inks resist fading for around 30 years when framedprints are displayed under normal lighting, or well over 100 years for prints stored in albums. '
 
redsnappa said:
Canon say that knowing it is a claim they will never have to defend.
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Probably not. It is not hard to simulate a level or UV-VIS exposure over period of time by cranking up the light source and measuring the fade due to photochemical reactions. In an album all you really have is non-photochemical decay. You could maybe test it by heating it up but I don't see much success with that.
In all honesty they are using pretty much the same ink formulas from 20-30 years ago with very subtle tweaks so they should have some idea how they behave over time...


I now have a similar dilemma with Canon Pro-1 that I picked up last week. Full set will soon be needed. I have a choice between OEM (£260 for 12x36ml), chi-com or refill with larger IPF series OEM ink and add chi-com chips (PFI-105 and 101 and maybe larger ones can be picked up very cheaply on ebay). Any suggestions would be welcome.
 
Don't understand the rationale behind getting an expensive printer then using potentially inferior inks.
I have a Canon A4 photo only printer, cheap, but pretty decent and that has 3rd party inks in it.
Used the same company (Prink) for over ten years and never had a problem with any aspect of their use

Also got a Pixma Pro 10 for when I want a high quality print that should hopefully be around for a fair amount of time
This one only gets used with Canon ink, not cheap, but combined with good paper it should guarantee the best possible output
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Probably not. It is not hard to simulate a level or UV-VIS exposure over period of time by cranking up the light source and measuring the fade due to photochemical reactions. In an album all you really have is non-photochemical decay. You could maybe test it by heating it up but I don't see much success with that.
In all honesty they are using pretty much the same ink formulas from 20-30 years ago with very subtle tweaks so they should have some idea how they behave over time...


I now have a similar dilemma with Canon Pro-1 that I picked up last week. Full set will soon be needed. I have a choice between OEM (£260 for 12x36ml), chi-com or refill with larger IPF series OEM ink and add chi-com chips (PFI-105 and 101 and maybe larger ones can be picked up very cheaply on ebay). Any suggestions would be welcome.
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Hijacked my thread! Haha jk. I believe the links are the same in my printer as yours except you have 4 other colours. I've looked at Fotospeeds inks and Octoink like mentioned above. I may just buy a refill kit and print for myself or family and if anyone ever wanted to buy a photo from me get a lab to do it. That's not really why I bought the printer in the first place but I'd rather a happy customer.

I've asked a few people questions about what inks they use who are prominent in the photography world so I'll share what I get back from them.
 
tijuana taxi said:
Don't understand the rationale behind getting an expensive printer then using potentially inferior inks.
I have a Canon A4 photo only printer, cheap, but pretty decent and that has 3rd party inks in it.
Used the same company (Prink) for over ten years and never had a problem with any aspect of their use

Also got a Pixma Pro 10 for when I want a high quality print that should hopefully be around for a fair amount of time
This one only gets used with Canon ink, not cheap, but combined with good paper it should guarantee the best possible output
Click to expand...

From my perspective it's not about using inferior inks. I've asked for the same colours and lightfastness. I want the same inks or better I just dont want to pay the premium because it says Canon on the box. It's like buying a t-shirt for £2 at Primark but Hugo Boss sells the exact same t-shirt but instead you'd pay £80 because they slapped Hugo Boss innit in tiny writing.
 
YoshiK1 said:
From my perspective it's not about using inferior inks. I've asked for the same colours and lightfastness. I want the same inks or better I just dont want to pay the premium because it says Canon on the box. It's like buying a t-shirt for £2 at Primark but Hugo Boss sells the exact same t-shirt but instead you'd pay £80 because they slapped Hugo Boss innit in tiny writing.
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Not sure anyone makes the same ink and then puts a different brand name on it.
Heard this "they're all made in the same factory" line a lot over the years.
Never seen any empirical evidence to back it up though
 
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tijuana taxi said:
Not sure anyone makes the same ink and then puts a different brand name on it.
Heard this "they're all made in the same factory" line a lot over the years.
Never seen any empirical evidence to back it up though
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The made in the same factory could be true.......but does not mean they are made to the same recipe!

Case in point ~ I used to supply food factories and one in particular made the "same" products for the big high street own brands. However, because each brand wanted it/them made to their recipe for both cost and taste reasons they were never the exact same product.

Or in electronic terms AFAIK there is a motherboard manufacturing plant in Taiwan that makes boards for a few brands!
 
tijuana taxi said:
Not sure anyone makes the same ink and then puts a different brand name on it.
Heard this "they're all made in the same factory" line a lot over the years.
Never seen any empirical evidence to back it up though
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Well you didn't hear it from me because I never claimed that. I think we're diverting from the point here that we're looking for cheaper inks of the same quality or better if they exist. If not then it'll have to be Canon. I was just asking the question because they're so expensive.
 
tijuana taxi said:
Not sure anyone makes the same ink and then puts a different brand name on it.
Heard this "they're all made in the same factory" line a lot over the years.
Never seen any empirical evidence to back it up though
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Different companies probably make slightly different formulas and I have a feeling Canon vs Epson may be substantially different. However I am 99% certain Canon pigment ink is the same in these tiny overpriced cartridges all the way to large format 700ml tanks where they cost a tiny fraction per ml. It appears some people are playing on this angle to cut the cost and retain 100% same quality. I only read about this so if anyone tried it could helpful to know. Obviously it won't be of any use to dye based ink printers although there I'd just run chi-com; probably makes little difference.

YoshiK1 said:
Hijacked my thread! Haha jk
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I certainly didn't mean to, it is just me too...
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Different companies probably make slightly different formulas and I have a feeling Canon vs Epson may be substantially different. However I am 99% certain Canon pigment ink is the same in these tiny overpriced cartridges all the way to large format 700ml tanks where they cost a tiny fraction per ml. It appears some people are playing on this angle to cut the cost and retain 100% same quality. I only read about this so if anyone tried it could helpful to know. Obviously it won't be of any use to dye based ink printers although there I'd just run chi-com; probably makes little difference.

I certainly didn't mean to, it is just me too...
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Haha you didn't hijack it, I was joking. We're bothing looking for the same thing. Well differnet inks actually as I didn't realise the Pro-1 was pigment inks; mine are dye on the Pro100S. If you think chi-com are worth a short I might experiment with them and see how we get on.
 
I use inks from Incredible .com and never had a problem with them. I don't know about longevity but as I shall not be here in 100 years not bothered.LOL
 
YoshiK1 said:
Haha you didn't hijack it, I was joking. We're bothing looking for the same thing. Well differnet inks actually as I didn't realise the Pro-1 was pigment inks; mine are dye on the Pro100S. If you think chi-com are worth a short I might experiment with them and see how we get on.
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Check if your prints get "dissolved" by dropping some water or coffee on them. If they do you certainly have little to fear other than Canon's secret tricks. Of course you need to check reviews before buying into one brand or the other.

Of course you may find that changing to pro-1, which is now obsolete, might cost you next to nothing if you prefer pigment. Mine was just 50 with tiny bit of every ink left.... I am sure it was not the last. They seem to have good print heads and last standing idle for a while.
Pro-1000 might make more sense being bigger with bigger ink tanks, but then the 2000 is first real proper printer. It's a shame Canon is putting all these artificial limitations left and right on the lesser models.
 
+1 for Octoinkjet.

And check out Jose Rodriguez on Youtube, very knowledgeable when it comes to inks and printing in general.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Check if your prints get "dissolved" by dropping some water or coffee on them. If they do you certainly have little to fear other than Canon's secret tricks. Of course you need to check reviews before buying into one brand or the other.

Of course you may find that changing to pro-1, which is now obsolete, might cost you next to nothing if you prefer pigment. Mine was just 50 with tiny bit of every ink left.... I am sure it was not the last. They seem to have good print heads and last standing idle for a while.
Pro-1000 might make more sense being bigger with bigger ink tanks, but then the 2000 is first real proper printer. It's a shame Canon is putting all these artificial limitations left and right on the lesser models.
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With the water thing I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean if it shows a water mark and smudges it then the inks are poor from Canon anyway so it wouldn't matter changing them to off-brand?

I need to work out what I'm doing with my printer. I bought it to print my own work and sell the odd print should anyone want one but I think I'd like to actively sell prints which I think means I need to upgrade the printer or use a lab anyway which in turn makes me think my Pro100S is useless so I should sell it haha.

Swissy said:
+1 for Octoinkjet.

And check out Jose Rodriguez on Youtube, very knowledgeable when it comes to inks and printing in general.
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Cool thanks I'll check this guy out!
 
YoshiK1 said:
With the water thing I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean if it shows a water mark and smudges it then the inks are poor from Canon anyway so it wouldn't matter changing them to off-brand?
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Yes, essentially. Atmosphere has lots of moisture so even this could get to the prints over time. I've not tested 100s specifically so it's all hypothetical, but cheaper ones certainly have this issue. It may also depend on paper with Matt or uncoated being affected the most. You can varnish them and / or hermetically frame mitigating this issue somewhat
 
Some printers advise that if you intend to sell or exhibit your prints then you should stick to OEM inks. For anything else a good quality 3rd party ink will suffice (depending on how much of a perfectionist you are, and I mean this in the nicest possible way). I use a Canon Pro 100S and am leaning towards Octoinkjet as a supplier. Unfortunately Precision Colors in the US do not ship to Europe. I intend to modify the OEM cartridges. The cheapest I can buy OEM cartridges is £75 per set and I believe I can improve on that by buying 3rd Party. Most of my prints are either framed or stored in boxes so the shorter longevity of dye vs pigment is not, at the moment, a concern. I have been a darkroom worker for over 40 years so I am very fussy about my prints. I print mainly monochrome and use a hybrid workflow scanning large format negatives and printing digitally. My main concern is making sure that my prints are completely neutral. I anticipate quite a lot of testing and, with luck, I can persuade a paper supplier to produce ICC profiles for me should this prove necessary.
 
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