50D Announced

8utters said:
The xxD range isn't a full frame range, so why would they make a full frame 50D?

Full frame is great and all, but it's not necessarily better than cropped frame. If it were, then why would Canon even bother making the 1D? They would just make the 1Ds range for professionals...

Cropped frame is good for sports and wildlife, so Canon will continue to keep the xxD a cropped range, the 5D full frame and both for the 1D series.
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:agree:
I think there is far to much hype over having a full frame camera, for the 99% of people who have NOT come from film they would not know the advantage/disadvantage of full frame.

I do feel there is a bit of one one-upmanship for some just to say they have full frame. I for one can not really see why it is such a big thing, either get a wider lens or step back a few feet.
 
taxi said:
just bought a 40d :(

Not complaining though very happy with the results :)
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Me too:shrug: Still getting used to it. Don't think I'll be upgrading again very soon.
 
CT said:
Just had an e-mail from Warehouse Express asking me if I want to pre order. 1200 quid for the body only with a Sandisk 8 gig card! Add a battery grip and it wont be cheap, but it's so much more appealing to me than any 1 Series body currently on offer. Hmmmmm...

CLICKY
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Oh and the 'free' gadjet bag and the chance to win a 580 EX II ;)

WHE don't seem to be too keen on price anymore methinks I guess someone has to pay for the fact they now run a real store which maybe if it was Birmingham or something, folks might have an even chance of getting there...well if they see the need I suppose. Sorry getting way OT.

Jamie
 
pearce_jj said:
So how will it compare to the 5D then? Did I waste my cash!?
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No! Those who primarily need a full frame sensor will see no advantage in the 50D. Those using long lenses for wildlife, particularly birds and other small critters are going to gain a huge advantage with long lenses due to those extra 5 million pixels and the substantially larger 1:1 image. The pixel density, even allowing for substantial cropping now far outstrips any other camera available.

I just wish Canon would drop the 1:3 sensor format and go with full frame and a 1.6 crop sensor, but to full 1 series spec. I'm sure some would disagree. :D
 
Comparison between a full frame 1:1 image from the 40D on the left and the 50D on the right - shown proportionally. The 50D image is now 43 mb (output as a TIFF) and will need very little interpolation to hit image library size.

2801420374_dc35371c33_o.jpg


And a rather interesting point of view from over on Fred Miranda which I tend to agree with. Like it or not, I think the new models are going to be coming out much. much quicker !!


I refer to the now locked thread titled "Canon 50D Leaked on China Site" (Canon 50D Leaked on China Site - FM Forums )and the debate over the specs concern over higher MP etc... I can't resist (to you know who you are - I'm sorry!!!)...

Canon is waking up. They are aware of what Sony and Nikon are going to release (have been for some while) and are on an active fightback program. The loss of DSLR market share starting 18 months or so woke up Canon about 12 months ago. The new R&D has taken a while. There are new leaders in the Canon DLSR area, and a new pace of change. Not as fast as some would like. But this year and next year, far faster than many of the doomsayers on this and other forums imagine.

There is a 5D replacement coming soon. And other FF soon. For a while now Canon is shortening is DSLR cycles too. The ID III and IDs III will not have the usual 1D three year lifecycle. And in the short term, Canon has the flexibility to reprice the 1Ds III to anything it likes down to as little as $1000 more than the 1D III. Gives them some breathing space (in the same way they did with the 5D pricing down towards the D300 when the D3 came out.)

DIGIC IV is real and part of Canons DSLR futures. It has the 2 to 1 and 4 to 1 pixel binning and next generation noise reduction capabilities. Note the sRAW1 and sRAW2 specs. sRAW1 with a 15.1mp sensor creates great 7.6mp images with something like a 2 stop noise advantage over the 30D at 8mp. They can take a 15.1mp sensor and ISO 12800 and produce stunning images in sRAW2. You can do your own maths about a 21mp (or so) FF sensor and DIGIC IV.

DIGC IV also has a HD movie mode waiting in the wings - don’t laugh about this being a toy you can take newspaper print quality images off any frame, just like the RED cameras.

Canon have been working on 100% microlens, low voltage low noise sensors capable of native ISO 12800. They suffer from some quantisation noise at smaller pixel sizes (limited by physics) but this is fixed by pixel binning to create virtual larger pixels when you need the really high ISOs. The 50D has equivalent per pixel noise to the 40D – less when looked at on a noise per frame perspective. There are some real advances to be obtained yet in sensor design.

DIGIC V is already in engineering design for even faster image handling. Imagine a future with a full frame 50mp sensor with virtually no noise at up to ISO 800 (awesome for studio work). Imagine the same sensor with sRAW1 and 25mp and ISO performance and 3200 better than the current 1Ds III… or 5D. And sRAW2 at 12.5mp and ISO 12800 performance that looks like today’s 5D at 3200. Or even an 8 to 1 sRAW3. Candlelight shooting anyone!

Yes it would be nice to have pro-AF and more (there’s some features for the 60D and beyond). But the 50D camera is a big step forward. The cross type AF points lock and track really well. And ultimately there will always be features in the top of the line cameras that are not in the mid series.

And… Nikon has its D90 and 25Mp in the D3 style body and 25MP in a D700 like body cameras coming… Sony has two 25 Mp cameras planned and is also working on their own sensors up to 50Mp and openly talking to others about it. Canon is not doing this for altruism. Canon has planned its cameras to slot in between (and in some cases ahead) of Nikons in terms of features and price and has put what it considers to be some highly desirable features in each camera model to catch aspirational buyers.

Oh, and Nikon has a massive computer imaging design based lens program, with the new 12-24 F2.8 and 24-70 F2.8 being good examples. It is part of its program of targeting the professional market with a series of market leading lenses covering all the main focus ranges (sadly not too many primes planned yet). There are a slew of new Nikon lenses coming over the next couple of year…. So… Canon (a little slower than with this year’s bodies) is starting to focus on lens replacements and upgrades. Moving away from its previous more hand crafted design to the sophisticated computer controlled light modelling design techniques. Expect 2009 and 2010 to be very interesting lens wise… (A number of the lenses are being redone to get higher resolutions so as to not be embarrassed when FF sensors reach 50mp)

So, knock the specs if you want… Believe me or not if you want. The resolution, the noise the convenience features of the new 50D will speak for themselves when it is announced. Some will not be happy, wanting their 1D III specs for 1/3 the price… (just wait a couple of years). Even I would like (not expect, but like) D300 like AF but hey that would beat the 1D III). And (from what I know) the new 5D replacement, along with, later new FF, are also deeply impressive cameras carefully targeted knowing the specs of the new Nikon and Sony FF. They are far from the ‘warmed up” 40Ds that we would have had if the 5D replacement had have come out last year.

I know I’ll be replacing my 40D and 5D (instead of just my 5D), my only quandary is wither two new FF or a 50D and a 5D replacement… And, despite the protests from some of you – so will many of those on this forum with 5D or 20D/30D etc. Certainly IMO the new cameras achieve Canon’s objective of taking away any reason to move to Nikon for most people with any significant investment in Canon glass, and being extremely competitive price wise for new buyers. Could they be better (of course always). Will some people prefer a Nikon or Sony model for valid reasons for them (of course !). Will there be features that people will fight to the death that should have been added or should not have been added (you bet that’s what happens on internet forums). Feature differentiation at work just as in most markets. We are in for an amazing ride over the next 2 to 3 years as Canon, Nikon and Sony 'slug it out' adding features and pushing the limits of physics in some cases. Buy the largest CF or SD cards you can if you want to enjoy the megapixel and speed ride we will be on!
 
CT said:
I just wish Canon would drop the 1:3 sensor format and go with full frame and a 1.6 crop sensor, but to full 1 series spec. I'm sure some would disagree. :D
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No not at all! This would eliminate the last remaining doubts I have about moving to a 1D MkIII!!
 
You could just get both lol best of both worlds.
 
CT said:
I just wish Canon would drop the 1:3 sensor format and go with full frame and a 1.6 crop sensor, but to full 1 series spec. I'm sure some would disagree. :D
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You can see how the 1.3 was the answer to some big questions for canon right up to the mkII but you're totally right, it has no real reason for going into any more bodies now.

As for the march of technology, I can really see how cameras like the 50D are going to continue to open up doors for long lens users but I just can't get excited about these things myself.
 
Bigger sensors are one thing, but what about AF speeds, no mention of an improvement, then 40d is better fast, but anywhere near a 1D? For motorsport i recon AF speed is a tad more welcome then an extra few pixels?
 
dazzajl said:
You can see how the 1.3 was the answer to some big questions for canon right up to the mkII but you're totally right, it has no real reason for going into any more bodies now.

As for the march of technology, I can really see how cameras like the 50D are going to continue to open up doors for long lens users but I just can't get excited about these things myself.
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Never say "Never" Daz. ;)

Contrary to what you might think from what I post, I do have a yen for other types of photography where full frame would be an advantage with some of my lenses, but I've opted out of this silly upgrade game, at least as far as any idea of going digital full frame is concerned and I'll just shoot 35mm film when I want full frame, and MF for a real buzz. :woot:
 
I have really been waiting for the 50D to be announced. But I am a bit worried about this new DIGIC 4 processor. I have invested a fair amount on Sigma lenses. How will this affect the lens compatibilities with this new camera?
 
New camera processors usually come out around every 3 years or so and generally speaking, just mean better images and faster processing. The fact that the Digic 1V is out so soon after the Digic 3 is an indication of the huge marketing tussle going on between the big players at the moment.

15 million pixels on a 1.6 sensor might be a tester for poor lenses, but apart from that, if you have reasonable lenses, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
 
Well 5 extra megapixels would make the 1.4X TC of my 120-300 2.8 obsolete:).
First thought was "now I can wait just a bit more to get the super-tele I am after and just get the 50D and crop a bit more". Second thought was "imagine though getting the super-tele and the 50D...". Those are not good thoughts. But imagine the reach!:clap:
 
To me it seems Canon are noticing a sharp increase in newcomers buying into the 40D (much more than the amount of people thinking a lesser priced 400D/450D would suffice) and that what appeals to them is just the megapixels and the FPS rate, along with 'sensor cleaning' and large screen for live view.

The average person that dabbles in 'expensive' photography and stays in the creative modes like to see themselves as photographers, yet sadly all they see is that a liveview and super megapixels as all they need for a good camera, which Canon seems to be playing right into. Mind you, at the end of the day, they have to make a camera that sells, which doesn't necessarily mean giving the most appropriate improvements.

I suppose the good news is the price of the 40d will go down...
 
BRITISH SELLERS ARE RIDICULOUS

IT IS ONLY 1200 USD IN US, ONLY 9200 HKD IN HONG KONG = 630 GBP

WHY IT IS SO EXPENSIVE HERE!!
 
i will be wanting a 50D its a massive upgrade over the 400D that i have - the noise control on higher ISO's makes my jaw drop and the fact i can crop into an image without too little loss in quality.

Im currently investing in nice glass but i am worrid about 3rd party lenses with the new camera. the last thing i want is to send my lenses for re-chipping.
 
I currently have a 30D which has served me well over the last 18 months. I've saved long and hard for a second body (as I switch lens quite frequently) and I now have enough cash for a EOS 1D MKIII :). I resisted the temptation of the 40D at that time and the 50D does look mighty tempting.

I shoot a wide variety of subjects and was looking for a body that would compliment the 30D.

Should I:

1. Go for the EOS 1D MkIII
2. Opt for the 50D and save £1300 (85mm f/1.2 money)
3. Wait for the 5D replacement.

I'm sure I'm not the only one facing this dilemma!
 
Organic said:
Should I:

1. Go for the EOS 1D MkIII
2. Opt for the 50D and save £1300 (85mm f/1.2 money)
3. Wait for the 5D replacement.

I'm sure I'm not the only one facing this dilemma!
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the 85mm is an EF lens anyway - so on a full frame, it would gain an extra stop in DOF which would make it f1.2 equivalent anyway (YUMMY).
does that help?
This means option 1 (although the 85mm lens will be a true 85mm, rather than 1.6*85)
 
Well it really depends on what you want the camera for. For me that I do mostly wildlife, the 50D is a no-brainer. If you are into motorsport or sport in general (even though I guess the AF and burst speed of the 50D is sufficient for most sports) then go for the 1D. But I can't help but think that for non professionals and for those who aren't only into landscape, that a full frame is not the necessity that most people think it is! I know that most people will jump to disagree but that's just my opinion. I still have my trusty old 35mm and when I get the need for an ultra bright viewfinder and the TRUE 35mm feeling, I just take it along for a couple of shots.
THe only reason I would go for a full frame would be the 35mm f/1.4L. You get some weird results on a full frame with that lens and it's absolutely magnificent!
 
I use the 40D for motorsport and will be getting a 50D and consigning my 40D to backup / 2nd body for 2nd tog.

I would love a 1D but I can't afford one yet. Maybe next year (unless some doddery old Aunt I'm not aware of leaves me some cash)
 
Organic said:
I currently have a 30D which has served me well over the last 18 months. I've saved long and hard for a second body (as I switch lens quite frequently) and I now have enough cash for a EOS 1D MKIII :). I resisted the temptation of the 40D at that time and the 50D does look mighty tempting.

I shoot a wide variety of subjects and was looking for a body that would compliment the 30D.

Should I:

1. Go for the EOS 1D MkIII
2. Opt for the 50D and save £1300 (85mm f/1.2 money)
3. Wait for the 5D replacement.

I'm sure I'm not the only one facing this dilemma!
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I'm in a very similar situation, with a couple of exceptions. No interest in a 5D or mythical 5D II, would like full weather sealing so it's either

50D (depending on good the the new environmental sealing is )
1d mkIII
Or wait for the 1d mkIII N :)
 
Thought I'd stick my head in to see what people were saying about this. Interesting, but not enough to make me rue the 40D :)
 
not meaning to go OT, but i can't see them bringing out a 1Dmk3n. i think it's gonna be a 1Dmk4 imho.
 
scraggs said:
Because people will pay it.
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Indeed. £1200 is Warehouse Express's tax for the over-enthusiatic more-money-than-sense buyer.

I remember WE listing the 30D at over £1000 when it was released. I picked mine up for £800 the same week.
 
bod said:
Indeed. £1200 is Warehouse Express's tax for the over-enthusiatic more-money-than-sense buyer.

I remember WE listing the 30D at over £1000 when it was released. I picked mine up for £800 the same week.
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Yup, so I will try to get one from kerso or some HK sellers :LOL: :woot:
 
The 50D sounds like a very worthy upgrade IMHO. It does have quite a few extra features than the 40D, but I'd definately like the 50D as a backup, with the 1D Mk 4 or whatever is being released as a main camera.

Just a financial dream though :shake:
 
russdaz said:
Bigger sensors are one thing, but what about AF speeds, no mention of an improvement, then 40d is better fast, but anywhere near a 1D? For motorsport i recon AF speed is a tad more welcome then an extra few pixels?
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Oh I hear you there!!!

But we must remember motorsport is a tiny fraction of photography with very particular demands that don't feature on many other tog's radar.

I was researching this AF speed question yesterday and found that Canon claimed a 1.3 times performance increase in AF speed between the 30D and the 40D (that is just speed, not to do with number of cross points). Trying to find anything about the 40D vs 50D I turned up nothing, so I emailed Canon to ask them...

I am still waiting for the answer, but reading between the lines I don't think its going to be a significant improvement.

In fact, Rob Galbraith (love him or hate him!) says:

Autofocus The 50D's autofocus system carries over mostly unaltered from the 40D: it remains comprised of nine AF points, all of which act as cross-type with f/5.6 or faster lenses (the centre AF point operates with higher precision than the other points with f/2.8 or faster lenses).

While Canon is emphasizing this time around the AF system's ability to detect scene colour temperature and light flicker, and include that as part of the 50D's autotofocus calculation, that capability was also present in the 40D, says Canon USA's Westfall. Canon's briefing notes on the camera make no mention, says Westfall, of autofocus sensor or algorithm changes in the 50D, relative to the 40D.

The autofocus calculations may well be the same, but where those calculations are performed is different. In the 50D: DIGIC 4. In the 40D: DIGIC III. Because DIGIC 4 is a faster processor, this could lead to a more responsive AF system, though this doesn't necessarily translate into greater AF accuracy.

The only change to autofocus that's visible to the user is found in the camera's Custom Functions: AF Microadjustment, for compensating for focus calibration error in the camera body or combination of body and attached lens, has been added to the 50D, with the same menu screen layout and options as the Mark III models.
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I think the super whizzy AF system us motorsport togs will always remain the territory of the specialised 1D family, because that is what they are designed for!

In case you hadn't seen it, Mr Galbraith was pretty cutting in his opinion on the 40D AF system recently:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-9537#40d
 
Organic said:
I currently have a 30D which has served me well over the last 18 months. I've saved long and hard for a second body (as I switch lens quite frequently) and I now have enough cash for a EOS 1D MKIII :). I resisted the temptation of the 40D at that time and the 50D does look mighty tempting.

I shoot a wide variety of subjects and was looking for a body that would compliment the 30D.

Should I:

1. Go for the EOS 1D MkIII
2. Opt for the 50D and save £1300 (85mm f/1.2 money)
3. Wait for the 5D replacement.

I'm sure I'm not the only one facing this dilemma!
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It's a bad time to be thinking about buying a camera unless you're really clear in your own mind what your main requirements from it are, so I'd give it a lot of thought before you dive in.

Given what Canon have done with the 40D/50D upgrade in such a short space of time, it means that the 5D when it comes, is going to be an equally impressive upgrade if you need full frame, and will surely feature at least one Digic 1V processor. The writing is already on the wall for an early upgrade of the 1DMK3 and 1DSMK3, with Nikon and Sony both launching 25mp full frame camera before long, and the pressure will be on Canon to put twin Digic 1V processors in the 1 Series sooner rather than later.

You can't win of course, but you can minimize the damage. You take a big hit in the pocket ugrading a 1 Series body compared, to a XXD body. If you really need the bouncability of the 1 Series build quality, then you'll suck on the cost, but I wonder how many of us really do? Many of us would be better off spending that big money on glass.
 
CT said:
It's a bad time to be thinking about buying a camera unless you're really clear in your own mind what your main requirements from it are, so I'd give it a lot of thought before you dive in.
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Agreed 100% but then again its never a good time to buy a new camera as the technology and competition behind it is moveing at an incredible pace.


CT said:
Many of us would be better off spending that big money on glass.
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or just the beer to fill the glass :D
 
Just like to point out to those hoping the price of a 40D will plummet that this is not a replacement but will run alongside the current range.
 
blinkerz said:
does Digic 1V bring a higher dynamic range?
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I dunno, but it's really significant stuff if I'm even half understanding what we know so far. The two versions of sRAW give the option to either discard pixels for less noise at high ISOs, or combine pixels for effectively larger pixels, and again less noise, and I suspect that this is going to produce some impressive results at very high ISOs albeit from smaller files.
 
Galaxy66 said:
Just like to point out to those hoping the price of a 40D will plummet that this is not a replacement but will run alongside the current range.
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Really? Are you sure about that?
 
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