645.... WLF.... but what next?

tikkathreebarrel

tikkathreebarrel

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Previously I greatly enjoyed Mamiya 645 photography with a WLF, just something about the whole ergonomics of the experience and the delight of the image in the WLF. Though I started with metal bodies I also used the later polymer body which I think had coupled metering so I could see in the viewfinder what I was creating with shutter and aperture changes....I think.

Eight years on and I'm very keen to get back into MF photography and what seems to be a lesser supply of Mamiya 645 kit on EBay is causing me to think again about what I want and why. If I've learned anything it's to recognise that some kit experiences will tick all my boxes and others may not tick any boxes at all and here's where my thinking currently is:

TLR: yes, I tried them previously and rejected them but there's potential for a second attempt.
Rangefinders: yes, much more than previously when I didn't really bond with rangefinding photography but I'm there now. I did try a Mamiya Six folder and man, that thing was heavy!
Other MF film sizes: yes, absolutely. I think I like 645 because it most closely chimes with enjoying FF digital.
Mamiya 6 or 7? Mmm, yes, possibly but there wasn't as much engagement as with the "set everything yourself" SLR-like 645 body. Beautiful lenses.
Folder? Well I like the technology and the interaction but I hate it when things go wrong as, sometimes they seem to.
I really want the interaction with shutter and exposure setting and I'd take WLF composing over eye level viewfinding.

There's no income stream here, this is pure hobby photography.

If there was plenty of Mamiya 645 choice in the UK I'd have bought something and would be shooting. I'm okay with importing from Japan.

What's the consensus here on mamiya 645 kit: are the bodies just quietly dying of "beyond economic repair"? Is it time to move on? I need to get this post out there because I need the benefit of broader experiences and knowledge so, guys, thanks in advance.
 
I had a 645 Super and really liked it. I personally used it with the metered prism finder though, and for purposes different to my usual landscapes. I ended up selling it to fund an alternative system for the same purpose and not because I didn't like the camera as such.

As for availability, the price of film kit has shot up over the last few years. I'm unsure as to how this may have affected the economic aspects of repair, but in any case, as cameras that are no longer made start to die for what ever reason, their availability naturally goes down as I've no doubt you appreciate. Furthermore, owing to the resurgence in the popularity of film, I would imagine that people, on the whole, are simply keeping them.

In terms of the different formats and systems etc, I personally would go for an RB67, as @steveo_mcg suggests. It ticks the WLF box in the first instance, and, having owned both Mamiya 645 and 67 systems, the 6x7 WLF experience wins hands down for me. If you're shooting with a WLF, the lack of meter in any case makes no odds between the systems, and one can either use a hand held meter, or a hot shoe based meter. Furthermore, having personally shot most major formats between 135 and 5x4 (soon-ish 11x14 also), the difference in negative size between 135 and 645 just wasn't worth the effort, given the advantages that more modern cameras like the F100/5/6 (and other brands) provide (including ergonomics imo). 6x7 however is a considerable step up from 135, which for me personally is a non-negligible factor.

Mamiya 6 and 7 systems cost the earth. They are stunning cameras, and I would own one were I able to justify it. But indeed if WLF is important then that's that.

Cost wise, I'm not sure what your budget is, but again, for me the RB67 wins rather convincingly in terms of value+features for money. I recall I bought my RB67 for about £150 including a 90mm lens, WLF, and a single back. Now they cost a good amount more, but the comparison in price between a mamiya 645 body, lens, WLF and film back and a 6x7 equivalent I leave to you :)
 
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Bronica ETR? I don't know anything about the range, but I recall it's compact, 645, and has WLF. I have an open eBay alert for the RF645 too but that's a tad pricey. I might be right in thinking @sirch has one...? (apologies for the tag if not!)

My 645 itch is scratched with the Pentax 645n which has 645 but no WLF. I bought it for compactness, TTL metering and AF. It's a fab camera and I love the 4:3 format and 16 frames per roll.

Agree with everything said above about the RB67. It's a superb camera. However it's not a walkabout camera at all. It's big, heavy and unwieldy. I only use it when I'm doing "proper" photography, which is hardly ever at the moment (for me). Portable cameras win out.
 
That is actually a very good point; the RB is not what one would call light! That being said, it can be used to hammed nails, drive fence posts, and has likely been wielded by Thor himself. Multiple uses helps with the justification of weight, no?

In all seriousness though, I don't mind the weight at all. Leave it on the tripod, sling it over the shoulder. Job done.
 
Harlequin565 said:
Bronica ETR? I don't know anything about the range, but I recall it's compact, 645, and has WLF. I have an open eBay alert for the RF645 too but that's a tad pricey. I might be right in thinking @sirch has one...? (apologies for the tag if not!)

My 645 itch is scratched with the Pentax 645n which has 645 but no WLF. I bought it for compactness, TTL metering and AF. It's a fab camera and I love the 4:3 format and 16 frames per roll.

Agree with everything said above about the RB67. It's a superb camera. However it's not a walkabout camera at all. It's big, heavy and unwieldy. I only use it when I'm doing "proper" photography, which is hardly ever at the moment (for me). Portable cameras win out.
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Man, if my photography is anything, it is walkabout.
It certainly isn't grandson portraiture until future release from covid lockdown.
 
Harlequin565 said:
Bronica ETR? I don't know anything about the range, but I recall it's compact, 645, and has WLF. I have an open eBay alert for the RF645 too but that's a tad pricey. I might be right in thinking @sirch has one...? (apologies for the tag if not!)

My 645 itch is scratched with the Pentax 645n which has 645 but no WLF. I bought it for compactness, TTL metering and AF. It's a fab camera and I love the 4:3 format and 16 frames per roll.

Agree with everything said above about the RB67. It's a superb camera. However it's not a walkabout camera at all. It's big, heavy and unwieldy. I only use it when I'm doing "proper" photography, which is hardly ever at the moment (for me). Portable cameras win out.
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I've got an SQ-A rather than an ETRS but thanks for reigniting my 645 GAS :facepalm:


:LOL:
 
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I’m on my (I think!) fourth Mamiya M645J, and am definitely keeping this one! Previously, I’ve bought one and used it for a while, then it’s fallen victim to my regular dips in actually shooting anything, so I’ve sold it, then immediately regretted it.

I’ve got mine coupled with (again) the 35/3.5 which is an ultrawide lens that I love using for landscapes/architecture. Ergonomics-wise, the 645J is essentially like carrying a literal brick around with you. It’s a solid metal box, that pretty much fits into your hand, and goes well with a sling strap. The WLF is nice and bright, certainly compared to my Yashica 635 TLR, and the full manual control suits me.

As you’ve seen, prices are on the up again for these so it’s worth keeping an eye out on Gumtree/Facebook Marketplace, in the hope that you find someone who doesn’t really know what they’re selling ;0)


www.flickr.com

Mamiya M645J

Explore this photo album by Steve Lloyd on Flickr!
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com

13959781729_55bfafb04e_o.jpg
 
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For wlf use Id rather go 6X6 than 645. For verticals a prism finder is a must for 645 adding to heft and bulk.
 
Asha said:
If ya' going to do that , ya' may as well carry LF ( just my opinion of course ;))
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It wasn't a statement of preference of system, more just that as far as the weight goes, it wouldn't bother me personally.

And to be fair, I took the RB out on a walk in some local woods the other day and actually quite enjoyed the freedom of being able to rattle off a roll for about the same price as a single colour sheet. Don't get me wrong though, LF is still what floats my boat :)


... Also, I needed to put a test roll through a new film back :D
 
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tikkathreebarrel said:
Eight years on and I'm very keen to get back into MF photography and what seems to be a lesser supply of Mamiya 645 kit on EBay is causing me to think again about what I want and why. If I've learned anything it's to recognise that some kit experiences will tick all my boxes and others may not tick any boxes at all and here's where my thinking currently is:

TLR: yes, I tried them previously and rejected them but there's potential for a second attempt.
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I've had a Yashicamat and currently have a Rolleicord, but I also have a Bronica SQ kit and a couple of folders. My suggestion would be to decide whether you need/want interchangeable lenses and filmbacks, since this will put you well on the way to your final decision.

While not as heavy as a Mamiya RB kit, the Bronica isn't something I'd want to carry very far for very long, unless I was on a specific outing to shoot something. The Rolleicord is a fraction of the weight and size, so it gets taken as first choice pretty much every time. It has the advantage of a WLF, although you could also get a prism if you ever felt like it. The price of MF gear is getting silly at the moment, and who knows whether it will hold its price or maybe crash next year? I think you might find that a TLR would give you a high percentage of the benefits you're looking for, and allow you the time to work out what you were missing out on by not having a camera with interchangeable lenses or filmbacks. Buying sensibly would mean you wouldn't lose out if you decided to sell it on in a few months time, and you can enjoy the next few months of lightweight MF shooting. (y)
 
The way I look at it is you are going to use digi most of the time and just use a film camera for relaxing etc or something different now and again...well a Rb67 will give you 10 shots a roll and most times that is more than enough when you have taken the time to work out the best shot for a subject and set things up properly (other than machine gunning with digi)....using any sort of back pack and RB67 with lenses and you wont notice the weight. Using an ETRS with speed grip and prism would be like using a large SLR and can't see the point if you mainly use digi for say street scenes or action shots.
As I don't do digi for me would be action shots esp for fast moving children and general shots (inc record) would be 35mm and scenery and portraiture RB67 or ETRs both are very good cameras and lenses.
 
Peter B said:
I've had a Yashicamat and currently have a Rolleicord, but I also have a Bronica SQ kit and a couple of folders. My suggestion would be to decide whether you need/want interchangeable lenses and filmbacks, since this will put you well on the way to your final decision.

While not as heavy as a Mamiya RB kit, the Bronica isn't something I'd want to carry very far for very long, unless I was on a specific outing to shoot something. The Rolleicord is a fraction of the weight and size, so it gets taken as first choice pretty much every time. It has the advantage of a WLF, although you could also get a prism if you ever felt like it. The price of MF gear is getting silly at the moment, and who knows whether it will hold its price or maybe crash next year? I think you might find that a TLR would give you a high percentage of the benefits you're looking for, and allow you the time to work out what you were missing out on by not having a camera with interchangeable lenses or filmbacks. Buying sensibly would mean you wouldn't lose out if you decided to sell it on in a few months time, and you can enjoy the next few months of lightweight MF shooting. (y)
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The Mamiya C330 might be a good compromise. WLF and interchangeable lenses.
 
I have a C330f, RZ67 and ETRS as well as a 6x9 folding camera. Of the three reflex cameras, the ETRS is the smallest and lightest for walkabout. On the other hand, the 6x9 folder has the exact proportions of 35mm, and folded will fit in my pocket - something none of the others can do.

Given the requirement for a WLF which is my preference with reflex cameras, for simple walkabout I'd go with 645, even with the difficulty of portrait orientation. I can't comment on longevity and ease of repair of different models.
 
Peter B said:
I've had a Yashicamat and currently have a Rolleicord, but I also have a Bronica SQ kit and a couple of folders. My suggestion would be to decide whether you need/want interchangeable lenses and filmbacks, since this will put you well on the way to your final decision.
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Interchangeable lenses? Yes, Film backs? Not essential.

Peter B said:
While not as heavy as a Mamiya RB kit, the Bronica isn't something I'd want to carry very far for very long, unless I was on a specific outing to shoot something. The Rolleicord is a fraction of the weight and size, so it gets taken as first choice pretty much every time. It has the advantage of a WLF, although you could also get a prism if you ever felt like it. The price of MF gear is getting silly at the moment, and who knows whether it will hold its price or maybe crash next year? I think you might find that a TLR would give you a high percentage of the benefits you're looking for, and allow you the time to work out what you were missing out on by not having a camera with interchangeable lenses or filmbacks. Buying sensibly would mean you wouldn't lose out if you decided to sell it on in a few months time, and you can enjoy the next few months of lightweight MF shooting. (y)
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Mmm, yes and "another go" with a TLR would kill or cure that as an itch.
 
I have a Mamiya C330f and the 55 / 80 / 135 and 180mm lenses, they are all superbly sharp lenses. It is however a very weighty bit of kit and so it doesn't get many trips out and I use it mainly on a tripod at home, a younger fitter (and possibly less lazy) person though shouldn't have a problem with it.

Examples
135mm lens on Fomapan 100
Yellow-Tulip by Andy, on Flickr

80mm on Portra 400
Craster-Harbour by Andy, on Flickr

180mm on Velvia 100
Tree-Shadow by Andy, on Flickr

55mm on Acros CHS 50 Art
Lock-Gate2 by Andy, on Flickr
 
Andysnap said:
I have a Mamiya C330f and the 55 / 80 / 135 and 180mm lenses, they are all superbly sharp lenses. It is however a very weighty bit of kit and so it doesn't get many trips out and I use it mainly on a tripod at home, a younger fitter (and possibly less lazy) person though shouldn't have a problem with it.

Examples
135mm lens on Fomapan 100
Yellow-Tulip by Andy, on Flickr

80mm on Portra 400
Craster-Harbour by Andy, on Flickr

180mm on Velvia 100
Tree-Shadow by Andy, on Flickr

55mm on Acros CHS 50 Art
Lock-Gate2 by Andy, on Flickr
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Thanks for that Andysnap. I know a day WILL come when I find some camera kit too heavy for "me old arms/back/knees": happy just not yet - phew. That said, I'm happy to heed what others are saying so maybe I'm back to a 645 after all.
 
Andysnap said:
I have a Mamiya C330f and the 55 / 80 / 135 and 180mm lenses, they are all superbly sharp lenses. It is however a very weighty bit of kit and so it doesn't get many trips out and I use it mainly on a tripod at home, a younger fitter (and possibly less lazy) person though shouldn't have a problem with it.

Examples
135mm lens on Fomapan 100
Yellow-Tulip by Andy, on Flickr

80mm on Portra 400
Craster-Harbour by Andy, on Flickr

180mm on Velvia 100
Tree-Shadow by Andy, on Flickr

55mm on Acros CHS 50 Art
Lock-Gate2 by Andy, on Flickr
Click to expand...
I had a C330 back in the 90s and always thought it was more a studio type camera. They were very popular with wedding photographers years ago in the days when they used tripod mounted cameras (or static hand-held) and did set-piece type group shots. I certainly wouldn't suggest it as a regular walk-about camera as it's a bit of a lump. Mind you, I also regard a Mamiya 645 as a studio/tripod camera, although it's more portable than something like an RB67.

If you're thinking of going down the TLR 6x6 route then perhaps have a look at a Yashica 635 or D. They've got a nice sharp lens on them, but the downside is that the lens isn't removable. The Yashica close-up adaptors work well but I regard the wide-angle and tele converters as adequate to slightly disappointing rather than stunning image quality wise, and you've to to stop down to use them - which is why I've never bothered buying them.

Prices seem all over the place at the moment, but expect to pay between £70 and £140 for a fully working and mintish 635... although one just sold for £240 on the bay! Lockdown certainly seems to have put the price cat amongst the collector's pigeons when it comes to film cameras with any sort of desirability these days. I'm glad I stocked up when I did, however, t's knackered my chances of finding a nice Mamiya 645 at handy money. I should have pounced on one earlier!
 
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john.margetts said:
Reversed left to right!
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Quite possibly, it was taken quite some time ago on a New Years trip to Northumberland where much alcohol was consumed :)
 
Interesting. I never knew you could load 120 film the other way round to get a laterally reversed image, and assumed you needed an enlarger (or contact printer) or scanner to do it.

As I always say, you learn something new every day - if you're not careful.

I once made a laterally reversed A3 print (presumably a scanning error) without noticing. Sometimes the world looks better back to front.
 
StephenM said:
Sometimes the world looks better back to front.
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I've considered printing that way on more than one occasion having initially scanned the negative laterally reversed and actually prefering the resulting image to how the scene looks in real life. I've found that some mountain scenes actually look better in reverse (imo) simply due to how we, as human beings, typically "read" an image from left to right.
 
And one large format photographer discussing one of his prints with a workshop leader and wondering why it wasn't as satisfying as he recalled it on the ground glass had his print inverted to improve it (it was a pattern rather than a scene).
 
StephenM said:
Interesting. I never knew you could load 120 film the other way round to get a laterally reversed image, and assumed you needed an enlarger (or contact printer) or scanner to do it.
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In case anyone is thinking of trying this at home - don't! The backing paper would be facing the lens, and that isn't capable of recording an image unless you use a pen, pencil or other marker :)
 
I found the next logical step from 645 was 6x7. I went with an RZ67 over the RB as it can use both RZ and RB lenses and it is smaller and lighter. Some people say it's not a walkabout camera, and to a certain extent, it's no easy task to lug it and a load of lenses about. That said, choose your lenses wisely and only take a maximum of two and it's not bad at all. I've carried mine up mountains, down valleys and around National Trust properties. I find it no worse than a modern DSLR with a fast telezoom. It's the only camera where a WLF works for me as the revolving back is a marvel.

I carry mine with a 65mm f4 fitted most of the time and a 127mm f3.5 to swap to. I don't generally carry the tripod either, but with waterfalls, it was rather useful.


The WLF is fantastic and makes 645 seem puny and awkward.


Compared with other formats
 
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