7D at the Fair.

hoolio

hoolio

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Julian
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A funfair is visiting this weekend so I was thinking of dragging out the new kit for the first time. Now i know this is a little cheeky but rather than leave the camera to do all the work i would like to take some control but coming from slide film am a little unsure of some of the settings so before I go I wanted to experiment. What should I be looking at as regards WB, ISO and NR shooting at night?
 
I don't think anyone could give you anything near a set of definitive settings for this scenario.

The chances are that light levels will be all over the show (pardon the pun) however this is how I would approach it......

Set the camera to Av mode and the ISO to say 400 with the aperture wide open (or as wide as practical depending on the max available), fire off a couple of shots and see if you're getting the right results. If they're under exposed or there's too much motion blur (although this may look good for some of the rides ;) ) up the ISO.

You've also got the option of using a flash to freeze the motion and in Av mode this should still allow you to get plenty of ambient light in :)

If you're still not getting the right results, make a note of the settings Av is giving you and go to Manual, tweeking as necessary.
 
Thanks Russ. I think I'm just being a bit of an old women as that is pretty much what I was going to do, but without any experience I'm unsure how changing things like the WB and Nr in camera are going to effect what I get.
 
Easiest answer - shoot raw and leave WB and NR to the comfort of your armchair. Then you can tailor the adjustments to suit your artistic/technical needs as each picture requires.

If you've never shot raw then don't be afraid to. It's easy. You can open raw files in DPP and then twiddle WB, NR, picture styles and other parameters as though you had set them in the camera to begin with. You can test out different option AFTER you've taken the shot and see what works best.

p.s. as for choosing ISO, that's easy too. Pick the shutter speed you want to freeze or emphasise motion as you desire. Pick the aperture to achieve the DOF you desire. Meter the subject/scene and set the ISO to achieve a "correct" exposure. If you're used to shooting slides then you should be a dab hand at gauging exposure accurately before releasing the shutter. The advantage of modern cameras is you can change ISO at will. Feel free to make that advantage work for you. Don't get stuck in the mindset of setting ISO first, as you would have to with film, and then adjusting everything else to suit.

When reviewing shots on the LCD, pay great attention to the histogram for judging exposure. If you go by the preview image alone your eyes will be fooled by the dark ambient surroundings into thinking the image is brighter than it really is. Make sure you have highlight warnings enabled and look for these in (blinking areas) in your preview image. That will show you any areas which are blown. Small amounts of blinking are often a good sign. You would expect a light bulb to blow out, but not the surrounding area.
 
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Thanks Tim, good hands on advice I can get my head around. I'm going over the two nights and tomorrow day so i can try to learn from the mistakes I make tonight.
 
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Go at night with a tripod and shoot manual with long exposures (a couple of secs or more)
67303130.jpg

67303131.jpg
 
Haha, this is Wallingford we are talking about (just up the road from you) we may get a roundabout, bumpers and coconut shy nothing that big.
 
How difficult is that? About 70 shots and probably not one I will keep. Didn't really seem to have any control, Ho Hum.
 
What did you not have control of? Were you using flash? What exposure mode? What metering mode? Were you just shooting the environment in general, or did you have a person/persons as a subject? Do you have any examples to share, with EXIF? Maybe someone can offer further advice.
 
Very much not really knowing my way around the camera yet and trying to shoot a not particularly easy subject. I was unsure about what metering mode to use actually and was trying just about everything to get a histogram not shaped like a big U. I will review the pix and try again tomorrow afternoon and evening.
 
I think the metering mode choice is less important than knowing how to use/interpret/guide the outcome based on what each metering mode gives you. I have no idea how you were framing your subject/scene, but at a guess you had a combination of very bright lights in parts and completely black sky in others. This would lead to the "U" shaped histogram you were trying to avoid. Why try to avoid it - if that's the makeup of the scene then that's the corresponding histogram. It sounds pretty correct to me.

Back to metering - this kind of scene is the type which can lead to difficulties. How much deep black in the scene? How much brilliant light? Whereabouts are they located relative to the active focus point? Differing metering patterns will tend to give differing interpretations, depending on where you point the camera. If you have the camera in one of the autoexposure modes (i.e. not manual) then the exposure is likely to bounce around as you adjust the framing of the shot.

In my earlier advice there was a veiled hint to shoot with manual exposure (my preference, usually) - Pick the shutter speed, pick the aperture, pick the ISO. That's manual exposure. Fire a test shot, chimp the results, make sure you have blinkies only where you want them, adjust if need be and then you should hopefully be in the right ballpark for many of your shots - but it does depend on what you are shooting - Is it individuals? Is it the bigger picture? The histogram simply tells you the quantity of tones at each brightness level within the scene. There is not really a "right" shape to aim for.

I don't do much night photography, but here's one I dug out from the archives. There is the semblance of a "U" shaped histogram for this shot. If there had been (fairground) lights in the background then that would have pulled up the graph on the right hand side to create a more pronounced "U" shape. FWIW this was shot with evaluative metering (not that I metered the scene) and manual exposure....

20110924_062211_.JPG


Have a look at this article about histograms, where you will see a "U" shaped histogram amongst other examples....

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms1.htm

There are plenty more good articles on the site, including this one on metering....

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm
 
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hoolio said:
Very much not really knowing my way around the camera yet and trying to shoot a not particularly easy subject. I was unsure about what metering mode to use actually and was trying just about everything to get a histogram not shaped like a big U. I will review the pix and try again tomorrow afternoon and evening.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with a big U if the image has large areas of dark and white.

For starters you could stick it on AV mode, adjust the ISO setting so you have a decent shutter speed, lets say over 1/60th as a starting point - you may need to adjust as you review your shots.
 
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hoolio said:
Haha, this is Wallingford we are talking about (just up the road from you) we may get a roundabout, bumpers and coconut shy nothing that big.
Click to expand...

Ah. We've got the link centre and have a fair there every 6 months or so.
 
Thanks massively for your help and time. Not really very happy with what I got last night, was shooting iso 2000 to give myself a little wriggle room re ap and shutter speeds and have lots of noise using efs 10-22. I'll maybe try to upload something.
 
2000 ISO will be achieved within the camera by shooting at 1600 ISO and then digitally pushing the file by 1/3 stop to make it appear as though you were at 2000 ISO. Not only does the digital push increase noise, but it throws away 1/3 stop of highlight headroom. You would be better off shooting at 1600 ISO, underexposing by 1/3 stop if need be, and then doing your own push of the raw file later. However, if even 2000 ISO is leaving the shot underexposed then that's also bad. Consider increasing the ISO to 3200 and making sure you Expose To The Right.

Again, I've no idea what the scene you are shooting looks like, but you may find you can shoot the 10-22 wide open and still have ample DOF. It is, after all, an ultra-wide lens.

Going back to the noise side of things, make sure you disable HTP. It should be off by default, but worth double checking. Also, while the file may well look noisy if you pixel peep, how does it look when viewed as a whole image at once? What raw software are you using - DPP? Lightroom? Other?

I've shot the 7D at 6400 ISO (indoor basketball) and got IMAGES that are very usable without hitting them hard with NR. However, blown up to 100% the noise does look pretty dreadful. Be sure you aren't disappointed for the wrong reasons.

Here's a 6400 ISO example, with no edits except white balance....

20100115_201023_2109_LR.jpg


and here's how it looks at the pixel level....

20110924_124622_.JPG



The pixels look crap. The picture looks fine, to me. Last time I looked photography was about making pictures.
 
In my opinion that's underexposed. Even as a JPEG you've got only tiny amounts of clipping in the light bulbs. Based on a quick fix in Lightroom I reckon most of the scene could do with another 2 stops on the exposure. Of course that will blow the lights (and possibly their immediate surroundings) more, so you might need a little fine tuning, but you definitely need to get the exposure up.

EDIT - yep, no EXIF present, so hard to advise on which adjustments would make most sense.

EDIT 2 : When shooting raw I would suggest using the Neutral picture style. That will reduce the contrast and sharpening in camera and lead to a histogram and blinkies which do not peak so early, leading to a premature indication of overexposure. Then nudge that exposure up so that, in this case at at least, the bulbs are showing strong clipping.

EDIT 3: Unless you are needing to freeze/limit subject motion then with that wide angle lens you may be able to slow the shutter speed somewhat and still get acceptable sharp shots. Maybe try 1/20 at 10mm and 1/50 at 22mm.
 
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Not sure how to download an image with data attached but it was 2000 f4.5 1/60 22mm. I was shooting raw+jpeg with neutral set. I may nudge exposure and bracket, plenty of space and I'm not looking for any keeps at the moment.
 
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Not much room to spare then. I'd suggest trying 1/50 and 3200 ISO and see how you get on. Good luck. :)
 
HI Julian,

If you have not yet done so, get yourself a copy of the book Canon EOS 7D Digital Field Guide. Usually available in most good book stores or on the Web. It is an invaluable mine of information and can answer most of your questions.
 
Thanks to you all above for all the advice and tips. The fair was all about pushing myself and getting to know what the camera can do, I also love all the colours and movement. I didn't fully realise quite how rusty I had become, it's clearly just going to be a matter of getting out and putting in the time and shots.
 
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