A beginners minefield.

Cyclepath

Cyclepath

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Name
Alan
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Hello all, my first official post, so please be gentle with me. I'm celebrating a year into my new life, (long story) and for a month now, I've been mulling over the different camera's available, megapixels, lenses, you name it, my head it spinning. Now, I have some friends who are avid and competent photographers, with many images published between them. One uses only Canon cameras and has a D7 and an old 400D as a back up, another uses only Nikon and uses D3200 and D3400, He won the latter only days after buy the D3200, jammy sod! I've held all these cameras, they suit my hands and I can work my way around them, even though I have fibromyalgia and osteo-arthritis, as well as spinal problems and a prosthetic leg. (yes, why haven't I been put down?) I'm at a quandry as what to choose, I'm not looking at going down a specific route, but something I can use every day for general work. I make and sell fishing flies, so, something I can get a good close up and detailed photograph is a neccesity, I know this will be more down to the choice of lens and all the mention cameras seem to be supplied with a 18-55 as a starter package. As time progresses and I delve deeper, I can get another lens. I also make some large salmon flies, but these are dressed on brooches as a finishing piece for a ladies jackets.
I spoke to a camera shop yesterday and this threw me into more turmoil, as I was advised to stay clear of the Nikon, as the interface was very difficult to understand and get to grips with and a Canon would be the best option, as it is easier to learn. My head hurts! I've a budget of £500 and have looked on several sites at used equipment, as many say, there is some good used stuff out there. I was informed this morning, that CEX now offer a 24 month warranty, so in my mind, that has to be a very good place to look first, (unless someone else has a better idea). I've also looked on MPB and there is plenty of choice on there, but mind is turning to mush at the options available.
As everyone says, "it's a matter of personal choice", but I really am struggling to decide. Help!

Cheers.

Alan.
 
Could you ask either of your friends to try out their cameras for 1/2 a day? This'll be the best thing to do tbh

I wouldn't agree with the camera shops advice on sterring clear of Nikon; I find Canons confusing to use as I haven't ever owned one!
 
I've had Canon, Nikon, Fuji & Olympus (so far) and ignore what the camera shop told you (sounds like they get more profit from selling Canons).

You'll get used to any menu system.

Nikon and Canon are easy, Olympus is too but more convoluted.

But once you've set up a camera to what you want you'll hardly need to delve into the menus too deeply.

Agree with Nick above. Best way to find out what you like and what feels good is to try for a good few hours.

And don't lose sleep about megapixels etc.

Most new camera bodies can produce stunning results in the right hands.

Welcome to the site.

Terry.
 
Hello Alan and welcome to TP.

I can understand your confusion - there are so many models available now. Your comment about being personal choice is correct. The vast majority of cameras will produce excellent shots in most situations so it is very much how a particular camera feels to you.

It depends where you want to go with your photography but given your conditions would a lighter camera be more suitable? At the risk of adding further confusion and giving you more to think about, have you considered a bridge camera? Many have a good macro facility so photographing your fishing flies would not be a problem.

Sorry if this hasn't helped. I'm sure other will be along with better suggestions.

Dave
 
I had Canon DSLR's and only briefly used a Nikon DSLR but even so I just can't believe that Nikon or their menus are all that bad, so I'd ignore that bit of advice.

Other than that I just wanted to suggest a film era manual focus macro lens as they're cheaper than the modern AF lenses and as you'll probably be using manual focus for close up pictures of your product the lack of AF might not be an issue and you could put the money saved towards a better camera or another lens as your use expands.

If you do decide to go for older lenses plenty of people will help you to choose.
 
Thank you for the replies so far, as Tringa asked, "would a lighter camera be more suitable?", probably, I'm very open to suggestions. As Nikon offer a 2 year warranty, should I hedge my bets and buy new or go with my gut instinct and buy something from CEX and get something better, but still get a 2 year warranty?

Something that I'd not considered that woof woof did, I didn't know that the older lenses worked with the newer camera's, that opens up another avenue of lens choice.

Thank you.

Alan.
 
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Hi Alan and welcome to TP.

First thing to understand is that, unless one's requirements are pretty niche - and yours aren't - then pretty much any camera system will work for you. There are no bad cameras these days.

Secondly, the differences in ergonomics (menu structures, button positions etc) can be significant for some people. Personally I feel like Canon DSLRs have been designed by someone who knew exactly what I wanted, and Nikon DSLRs are confusing and have controls in awkward places where my fingers can't reach them easily. But there are people who think exactly the opposite. It can be very personal. So it's a really really good idea to get some hands on time, either in a shop or by using a friend's camera. It doesn't have to be the exact model you might buy: all Canon DSLRs share a lot of DNA and the same is true for all the manufacturers, so if you do/don't get on with one model in the range then you probably will/won't get on with that manufacturer's other models. But it's important to get this right because you're potentially buying into a system - your first camera is unlikely to be your last.

Thirdly, whilst Canon and Nikon dominate the DSLR market, there are other types of interchangeable-lens cameras out there that aren't DSLRs. The likes of Sony, Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic make very competent mirrorless cameras. Mirrorless cameras have some technical advantages and disadvantages which I'm sure you can research. One potentially important issue for you though, is that there simply aren't as many of them around, so the market for used equipment and accessories isn't so big. Another potentially important issue is that some people don't get on with electronic viewfinder displays; the best ones in modern £2000+ Sony cameras are very good, but older ones can suffer from lag, pixellation and moiré. So if you're looking to get started by buying used equipment, mirrorless might not be such an attractive route; but it deserves to be mentioned so that it's on your radar.
 
As long as you're physically capable of holding a smaller form factor camera I'd opt for an Olympus EM5MK2 or the mk1.

Olympus make a rather good macro lens for not too much money and the results I've obtained from the micro four thirds sensor are surprisingly good for its size.

Also with the EM5MK2 it has a clever multi shot 40MP mode which would be ideal for your still life subjects (fishing flies)
 
Personally I'd avoid CEX at all costs irrespective of any warranty period. MPB, Ffordes, Mifsuds and Grays of Westminster (Nikon only) are all good to deal with ime.

As for camera body, well almost unimportant really. The advice to handle and use one is sound, any future camera from that manufacturer will have similar DNA, i.e. they will handle in a very similar manner, and will use the same terminology throughout.

As to which brand, well I wouldn't rule out other makes such as Fuji, Olympus or Sony. I really liked the Fuji I tried (XT2) but don't really get on with the Sony's ergonomics (they most likely have improved). I can use Canon ok and am at home with Nikon. BUT it is irrelevant which I prefer ;) It just demonstrates that there are more options than just the Canikon duopoly.

Given your physical challenges one of the lighter systems such as Fuji or Olympus may make more sense, they are well rounded systems and are capable of very good results.

Oh, and as for steering clear of Nikon, well I guess they are getting more commission this month for selling Canon.
 
Either system will do what you want, including excellent macro lenses for close up work. I've used both, and wouldn't say one arrangement of menus is more difficult than the other - take the camera shop advice with a large pinch of salt. In any case, you can set up a custom menu with all your most used settings grouped together. You'll mostly be using the external controls, where people tend to have a preference for one arrangment or the other, which (as above) is best determined by borrowing them for a while. If you still have no preference Nikon is, of course, much cooler:).

I would personally use a specialist dealer rather than CEX, who never seem to have great prices to me, and don't really know cameras. For second hand stuff, take a look at Ffordes and LCE as well as MPB. For new, see:

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/
 
Like others have said, most cameras will do what you need.
I would say with your health the way it is, a mirrorless maybe a better choice.
I understand that you want to get close up shots of your fishing flies, this can be done fairly cheaply using extension tubes and a kit lens (or even just a kit lens, mine focuses remarkably close).
 
Thank you all again, MPB have a Canon 600D body in what they call "like new" for £264 and an "excellent Canon EF-S 18-55 f/3..5-5.6 IS ll for £64, or, should I choose a 3rd party lens? I do spend a fair bit of time out doors and given my budget of £500, I'll have £170 for a zoom lens like a 55-250/70-300 or should I not get a zoom lens at this time? I'm thinking I might as well use up my budget, just in case it gets swallowed up by something else, like dog food or beer tokens?

Thanks.

Alan.
 
Depending on where you live and how much you want to research, the Photography show starts at the NEC Birmingham a week on Saturday - Tuesday. All the manufacturers attend with pretty much their whole range for you to maul and ask questions to technical sales experts. You don't often get the opportunity to see as much in one place - just a suggestion
 
I'm in County Durham James, so 200 miles away, door to door, I don't fancy driving that far, but thanks for the suggestion.

Alan.
 
Use a business that has 30 day no quibble return for full refund. If you don't like it send it back and get something else.
 
Hi Alan and welcome to TP.

As a first step into photography, I'd be tempted to see how I got on with a decent bridge camera. They usually offer reasonable image quality, often have a large range of focal lengths (not alwaya agood thing but can be useful), almost always offer as much or as little control as you want and are more convenient than interchangeable lens cameras. Get a reasonable one second hand and you should be able to shift it on at minimal loss if/when you upgrade. Since you'll probably want/need close up capability, you'll be pleased to hear that the bridge cameras can normally do that as well but check with the seller.

Congratulations on your new life as well! I know how a rebirth can feel after being given a new life myself a few years back - I now celebrate the date of the op that did the job as well as my birth day.
 
Thanks Nod, well, this might seem a daft question, but what is a bridge camera?
 
I cannot recommend a brand or camera but I would suggest as someone who has a spinal problem as well that you look at a fully articulated screen and using live view. Not having to bend over or around and just being able to put the camera in a different position has helped me a lot. No more lying on the beach looking like a stranded whale waiting for help from greenpeace for me! I probably use the viewfinder for 95% of my shots but that last 5% I would not get were it not for an articulated screen.
 
Hi Alan,

Ignore the camera shop, as mentioned above they clearly have a better deal selling Canon than a Nikon. From what you've said above it sounds like you would need a Macro or Prime lens. I can vouch for the Nikon D3300, great camera, not too heavy either especially with the 35mm prime lens attached.

The 35mm f/1.8 will give you lots of light and is a decent price too. You should be able to pick up a body and the lens within your £500 budget. I'm not sure the 18-55 kit lens will do you much good photographing the fishing flies? You can pick up a used D3300 from MPB.com for less than £300 too.
 
You have lots of suggestions and all of them to a greater or lesser degree will do the job, if the camera has a manual exposure mode and " Live View" so you can see the exposure before you press the shutter so much the better.
If you want to take photos of your trout flies then build into your budget some inexpensive kit which makes life a lot easier
A Light Tent-you should get one off ebay for not a lot of cash ' or with a bit of ingenuity you can make one.
A tripod-depending on what camera you get a small table top one will do.
A couple of desk lights with daylight bulbs
A cable release for the camera
Some coloured paper for backgrounds

These were taken in a light tent with a couple of cheap Argos lights with daylight bulbs using a Canon 40D with a 100mm dedicated macro lens

p165591596-4.jpg


p169710634-4.jpg


p269877193-4.jpg


I did not tie these , they are beyond my tying abilities

Best of luck
 
Cyclepath said:
Thanks Nod, well, this might seem a daft question, but what is a bridge camera?
Click to expand...

A bridge camera is a sort of half way house between a compact camera and a DSLR. They usually have similar features to an entry level DSLR but have a fixed zoom lens so you don't have to keep swapping lenses to get different focal lengths. Ultimate image quality isn't as good as a modern DSLR but unless you're printing fairly large (A4 or larger), you probably won't notice the difference. Not up to date with current models but Nikon, Canon, Fuji and Sony all make a range of them.

Daniel_Paul said:
Ignore the camera shop, as mentioned above they clearly have a better deal selling Canon than a Nikon.
Click to expand...

Jessops?
 
Well Chris, you may not have tied the flies, but your photographs are stunning.
 
I can also vouch for the Nikon D3300.

I was faced with the same conundrum when buying my first DSLR last year, no idea which specific features I'd need or the difference between Canon / Nikon etc. so I figured I'd buy a cheap DSLR, invest in lenses first, and if I could prove to myself I needed a better body I could invest in one later.

So far the D3300 has proved entirely suitable, I also have the 35mm f1.8 lens, which takes superb pictures, and the 18-55 kit lens is pretty good as well.
 
gonna throw a spanner right into the works here , a dslr with either a macro lens or a close focus lens will involve knowing more about depth of field and with the amount of knowledge you have prove very frustrating ,like wise a bridge camera is not really meant for what you want ,I used to sell coins and artefacts and I always found the best cameras to use and get acceptable results were the Ricoh range of compacts with 1cm close focus lenses ,forget about high megapixel count cameras as at the range your shooting it will make no difference at all .I also note you have various disabilities so a lightweight camera would be ideal and they can also be mounted on a table top tripod of which there are loads available .unfortunately these days a lot of companies are moving away from these type of cameras but there still out there if you look .a 1 or 2 cm close up ability is what you need .
another tip is regarding lighting and I have just bought a home studio Lightbox from e.bay its a small portable plastic enclose that comes with built in l.e.d lights and is more than adequate for for what you need simply plug the light lead into a usb charger or computer .cost me the princely sum of £6 delivered from Manchester brand new .

this is just my viewpoint based on your needs and perceived abilities
 
I picked a 3300 with the 18-55 lens last night, it's in fantastic condition and has less than 900 actuations, it came with an upgraded double charger, 2 new batteries, bag and a few other bits. I have a few appoinments today, so I'll not have chance to get out and take any pictures. I've ordered a bipod and I'll be searching the net for a few extra bits when the opportunity rears it's ugly head.

Thank you all for your advice.

Alan.
 
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Enjoy!
 
Cyclepath said:
I picked a 3300 with the 18-55 lens last night, it's in fantastic condition and has less than 900 actuations, it came with an upgraded double charger, 2 new batteries, bag and a few other bits. I have a few appoinments today, so I'll not have chance to get out and take any pictures. I've ordered a bipod and I'll be searching the net for a few extra bits when the opportunity rears it's ugly head.

Thank you all for your advice.

Alan.
Click to expand...
The D3300 and 18-55 lens combination, is what I am using at the moment. I am getting pretty good photos, very pleased at the moment.
 
Glad you found a suitable camera and I hope you enjoy using it. I'll look forward to seeing a few photos of Pheasant Tail Nymphs and Whickhams Fancies in due course, and perhaps even an Usk Dogsbody? (y)
 
I have put this in other threads on this subject and its the best advice I can give because we are all individuals, so our needs are different.
Some great advice and recommendations here. My advice is simple. If you get a dslr type camera then you are buying into a system. Make sure that system suits you. get a short list and go and try the cameras out. Does feel right are the menu systems right for you. Do not settle for I will get used it. Good luck
 
Well Mr Badger, I'll be making some PTN's, but probably not the others, I'm a North Country Spider man myself and make and sell a lot of "Partridge and" variants, my Partridge and Green with a copper rib is a well proven fly. I first tied in in 1987, but used a DFM floss, l make them in pink, yellow, red and orange. They do tend to emit a vibrant hue and l would say, catch 90% of my fish on the river. These patterns have been used on rivers from central Scotland, down to Dorset and have many fans.
Once l get organized, I'll put some on display.

Alan.
 
Cyclepath said:
Well Mr Badger, I'll be making some PTN's, but probably not the others, I'm a North Country Spider man myself and make and sell a lot of "Partridge and" variants, my Partridge and Green with a copper rib is a well proven fly. I first tied in in 1987, but used a DFM floss, l make them in pink, yellow, red and orange. They do tend to emit a vibrant hue and l would say, catch 90% of my fish on the river. These patterns have been used on rivers from central Scotland, down to Dorset and have many fans.
Once l get organized, I'll put some on display.

Alan.
Click to expand...

That is as baffling a post as I've ever read on camera gear or photographic technique.

:D
 
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