1. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Yeah I didn’t realise the negatives would be so big, 8 shots from one roll lol. I’ve just got some expired colour film just to try. How do you know you’ve wound the film on enough? I see it has a window to show the frame number, but I’m guessing it won’t match up the same on modern film?
     
  2. FishyFish

    FishyFish

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    Going on the Sunny 16 rule, I’d say overcast conditions.

    You can use a calculator like this one to give you a ballpark idea: http://endoflow.com/exposure/
     
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  3. FishyFish

    FishyFish

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    Roll film has the frame numbers printed on the backing paper for the various formats [6x6, 6x7,6x9). The window on the back of the camera will be positioned so you can see the correct frame numbers for the format it uses as you wind the film on.
     
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  4. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Ahhh that calculator is very handy thanks. Oh that’s handy for the frame numbers, thought it was going to be a bit of guess Work lol.
     
  5. Nomad Z

    Nomad Z

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    Short answer: Wing it.

    Pragmatic answer: f11 for cloudy to hazy sun, f16 for sunny and very sunny.

    Techy answer: Get a light meter.

    Long answer...

    Have a look at the NPS 160 datasheet, part 5...

    https://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/AF3-809E.pdf

    That's an adjusted sunny 16 exposure guide. It's adjusted because the film speed is 160, but cameras don't normally have 1/160th as a shutter speed, meaning you can't apply a normal sunny 16. Instead, they say to use 1/125th, which means a slight over-exposure, and the apertures are stopped down a bit to compensate, such as f16 and 2/3rds for sunny, instead of f16. (I make that a slight under-exposure overall.)

    You need to adjust these apertures to work with your shutter speed, or choose the lighting conditions to match the exposures your camera is capable of. To make it easier to work out, I'd tweak the exposure guide by changing the shutter speed to 1/100th and stopping down another third of a stop. In other words, for cloudy bright, 1/100th at f11 is almost the same exposure value as 1/125th at f8 & 2/3rds. Choosing suitable light now becomes a bit easier - you have whole stops and a 1/50th shutter. If you used the now-tweaked exposure guide's 1/100th at f11 in cloudy bright, you'd over-expose one stop - but you'd be about right if you stopped down to f16.

    That's for exposing at box speed (near enough). In reality, some guesswork is needed. Expired film loses speed, the speed of your shutter is a half-guess and it could be inaccurate anyway, and the stops might not be accurate either (the middle stop in my No2 Brownie is quite a bit out while the other two are pretty close). However, guesswork isn't too big a deal because the film should be quite tolerant of inaccurate exposure.

    In short, even if you were to nerd out and try to determine 'correct' exposure for the conditions (or choose appropriate conditions for the available exposure values), the chances are that something is going to be out of spec anyway, and even if it is, the film will probably mask it. Hence the short answer above. :)

    Finally, I agree with everyone that says to get some Fomapan 100. Cheap, cheerful, and the formulation is straight out of the 50s.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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  6. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    As long as the bellows aren't leaking light and the shutter opens and closes somewhere near on time then you should be able to get some photos out of it using 100 ISO film and the 'Sunny 16' rule. If the bellows are OK then I'd agree with the suggestion to try it with 100 ISO black and white print film. Even if the bellows are OK, I find it can be a bit of a lottery using some of these old folding cameras with 400 or 800 ISO print film as you can get light leaking in when opening the sliding window on the camera back to see which number you're up to when winding the film on. This tends to show as orange flare coming up from the bottom or the top of the negative (or both!).

    The suggestion is that you only open the 'window' in subdued lighting, which is fine if you can actually see the 'countdown' markings and film numbers through the window, but not all makes of 120 roll film have particularly clear markings on the backing paper! You might get away with shining a light on the red window to see the film number with a 100 ISO black and white film, but try it with a fast colour film and you can end up with orange light-leak flare on some if not all of the negs. Mind you, if that's the only problem it can still be fun finding out. (y) As for Kershaw cameras, it's a shame it wasn't a Curlew III, as that's one I'd love to add to my collection as a gift! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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  7. Andysnap

    Andysnap POTY (Film) 2015

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    If you do need to shine a light on the window to see the numbers (i do as I'm red/green colour blind) use a red light. It sounds daft but it works perfectly and wont affect the film.
     
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  8. excalibur2

    excalibur2 Loretta

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    Well most of my general shots with 200 ISO film, on a sunny day (in the south east of England), are 1/250 @ f5.6...this is a grey card reading (or incident). In Ibiza it would be 1/250 @ f11.
    So 1/50 would be around f11 and hope that helps.
     
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  9. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Anyone know if the lomo lubitel 166B would be a good camera to try out a TLR camera and medium format?
     
  10. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Or if there is something similar for max of about £100?
     
  11. RaglanSurf

    RaglanSurf Official Forum Idiot 2013 & 2014

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    Lubitels are fine but there are better options out there Yashica A http://www.mwclassic.com/product/ya...ns-in-copal-shutter-makers-front-cap-er-case/, or Yashica E http://www.mwclassic.com/product/ya...-built-in-bulb-flash-80mm-f3-5-yashinon-lens/ cheap but classic Voigtlander Brillant (or Brilliant) depending on which one you pick up http://www.mwclassic.com/product/vo...ck-bakelite-tlr-with-7-5cm-f7-7-voigtar-lens/

    From a personal point of view out of those 3 I'd go for the Yashica A, classic, basic operation, tried and tested quality at a decent price.
     
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  12. skysh4rk

    skysh4rk

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    Do you have access to the classifieds? I have a Lipca Rollop TLR that I had serviced by Miles Whitehead last year that I haven't used. Perhaps you have an interest in that? I also own a Lubitel and would no doubt say that this is a better camera.

    IMG_0919.JPG IMG_0920.JPG
     
  13. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    I can’t see it in the classifieds, is it in the film and conventional bit? That’s a nice looking camera
     
  14. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    If you've got a budget of around £100 for a TLR then perhaps have a look at a Yashica 635 TLR. If you're patient enough you should be able to find one in VGC to Excellent condition for around the £80 to £110 mark. Sometimes the price will take off on auction sites for one, if so, leave it as there'll be another along in a couple of weeks and there's not much point in paying over the odds, after all, it might not even work properly!

    If you do fancy a 635 then I wouldn't bother with the 35mm adapter kit unless it comes with the camera for the above price. I've used mine once in 4 years of ownership! A bit of a novelty, but I soon got tired of shooting 35mm in portrait format for 24 shots (glad I didn't put a 36 exp in there!), and have you ever tried turning a TLR on its side to take a 35mm landscape format shot? There's a reason most TLRs at a square format! ;) Besides, there are quite a few 35mm adapter kits up for sale for about the going rate that have parts missing :eek:, so learn what to look for to make sure it's all there if you do decide you want one.

    There are a few buying tips (in addition to making sure the aperture and shutter speeds work OK). ISTR these are covered on Paul Sokk's Yashica website, this link should take you to the Yashica 635 page and you can navigate from there! I think the 'what to look for when buying' might be on a different page but it's all quite interesting and pretty comprehensive : http://www.yashicatlr.com/66ModelsPage6.html#yashica635

    So there you go, see if one of those might suit you, and if you do decide to buy a TLR then do your research and don't rush in, they can make an expensive paperweight if you buy the wrong one! Best of luck and keep us posted on progress. (y)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  15. skysh4rk

    skysh4rk

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    I haven't yet put it up in the classifieds.

    I usually like to provide test shots for cameras in my classifieds listings, but I've been busy doing other things, so I haven't had a chance to get a roll through it since it was serviced. I might try to put a roll of black and white through it in the next few days, so I can finally put up a classifieds post.
     
  16. FishyFish

    FishyFish

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    I had a Lubitel 166 U. It was capable of nice pictures (my Flickr album is here), but was pretty fiddly to focus so you had to really take your time (unless everything was at infinity).

    I also have a Lipka Rollop like skyShark has, but mine needs the light-seals replacing before I use it. From handling it though, and looking through the viewfinder, it's worlds apart from the Lubitel. The focusing screen is bright with a split-prism, which is far superior to the little ground-glass disc in the Lubitel.
     
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  17. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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  18. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    Forgot to say that the usual classic film camera addiction warning also applies to TLRs: Film cameras can be addictive and may multiply quickly. Your savings may be affected and storage space at your home may be at risk if you carry on making payments! :whistle: And now for the graphically explicit photo to show just what can happen if you do become addicted (mind you, they were a bit cheaper a few years ago!) ;)

    [​IMG]IMG_0011
     
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  19. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    :LOL::LOL: How did you end up with 3! My wife thinks I’m insane already, I just tell her it’s beacise she doesn’t appreciate what it’s about, still didn’t justify it for her lol
     
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  20. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Just has a look on eBay and every Yashica 635 is staring at least £139 expcept one which has no box or lens caps
     
  21. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Had a quick flick through your lubitel album, some very nice pictures and seems a very capable camera
     
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  22. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    I’ve found a excellent condition 166 with its original box and case for £50, there are other in good condition for around £25-£35. Hmm, maybe a good shout for a try to see if a tlr works for me before getting something more substantial.
     
  23. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    @FishyFish any idea what the difference is between a 166u and a 166b?
     
  24. mdjchat

    mdjchat

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    Hi Shaun, for what it's worth I think that £50 is far too much for a Lubitel. They are capable of some nice results in the right hands but their price has been overinflated by the lomography crowd. When I was getting into photography about 10 years since they were selling for about £20 on eBay for a good one which seemed about right. If you have a look on West Yorkshire Cameras website they have a Yashica Mat LM and a MPP Microcord for £99 in 'exc' condition. They would be far superior cameras and you would have the benefit of a 3 month warranty.
     
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  25. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Thanks I'll take a look :)
     
  26. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    Since you asked... I bought the one in the middle first, which has a Yashikor lens (which is a good enough lens especially when stopped down a little), but for around the last 18 months of production (late 1970 onwards) they 'upgraded' the camera and fitted the same Yashinon lens they used on the Yashicamat cameras, and a slightly brighter f/2.8 viewing lens. These Yashinon lensed 635s aren't particularly common but do turn up occasionally; I spotted one so I bought it.

    About a year later I spotted another Yashinon lensed one being sold by a camera shop who had priced it quite reasonably (perhaps they didn't know what they'd got?), so I bought that one too as it was too tempting an offer to miss. I dropped lucky with that one really as when it arrived it turned out it was in virtually mint condition and looked like new, plus it was from the first month or so of production and has the earlier chrome film door locking knob (the Yashinon 635s usually have a black plastic one) so a nice collector's piece. So I have two to use and one to keep for best. The Yashikor lensed ones have a nice swirly looking bokeh to them, so have a nice vintage look to them when using a wide aperture. :)

    The 635 isn't a bad camera at all really, but it can suffer a bit from veiling lens-flare if used into the sun or under bright skylights, etc., so keep your back to the sun and that should do the trick. Apparently this seems to be caused by the internal mat black paint reflecting light a little in certain conditions. Some people have lined their 635 with black flocking, but I can't bring myself to do that to any of mine as they're nice original examples. Now if I had a slightly rough-looking one as well.... You see how these things can snowball! :whistle:
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  27. excalibur2

    excalibur2 Loretta

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    Ah this was the camera I was thinking of and not the Seagull, and the first one, when first came out was £16. So remarks made for the Seagull are for this i.e. quality can vary for body and the lens, but a good one and you can get surprising results which I remember when seeing the review in the Amateur Photography so long ago.
     
  28. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Haha it's like an addiction. I like the look of the Yashica-Mat LM, comes in right at what I wanted to spend on one, I think I'll sleep on it and decide tomorrow what I should go for.
     
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  29. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    That Yashica website I put the link to in post #214 should have lots of info on the Yashic- Mat LM. I think one of the other recent film converts on here has just bought an LM so perhaps do a search and see how he's getting on with his?

    I suppose you'll be after a light meter app for your phone now you're going all medium format on us! I tend to use this one and it seems to work quite well on an Android Sony Xperia T. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dq.fotometroNa&hl=en_GB

    There's a free version of it you can try to see if it works OK on your phone, but I soon shelled out the £1.99 as I didn't like the ads and there were more functions on the £1.99 version. Hope this is useful.
     
  30. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    That has literally just popped into my head, great minds eh lol. I think thats what I'm finding appealing with the Yashica-mat LM, is the built in light meter, although it may not be very accurate it will help lol. Saying that the selenium meter on my Yashica Minister seems to do the job well
     
  31. mdjchat

    mdjchat

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    You might get lucky and find that the meter is still accurate (or accurate enough for negative film). I'm not that keen on using my phone as a light meter so I have a Sekonic L308s and a classic selenium cell Weston Master. The Weston Master's are cheap to come by and mine is still as accurate as my new digital Sekonic. There's also the satisfaction that comes from using both camera and meter with no batteries needed.
     
  32. ChrisR

    ChrisR

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    Just open her cupboard and count the pairs of shoes... they mostly cost more than a camera and are used far less!














    No, it doesn't really work but it's worth a try...:D
     
  33. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Ok so I've just accidentally ordered the Yashica-Mat LM from West Yorkshire Cameras :help:
     
  34. FishyFish

    FishyFish

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    You’re doomed. :D
     
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  35. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    One important thing with some of the Yashica TLRs (635s included), if you ever use the self timer* make sure the flash sync lever is set to the X position. If it's set to M when the self timer is used it will jam the shutter mechanism permanently! :banghead:

    I'm not 100% certain this applies to the Yashica-Mat range but I thought I'd better mention it, as better safe than sorry! *It's probably safest not to use the self timer on old mechanical cameras anyway as this is often the first part of the shutter mechanism to gum up and stop working and it's often not worth the risk of 'bricking' the camera with a stalled mechanism.

    I think there might be something about not winding the camera on if there's not a film in it or something like that too with the Yashica-Mats, but I'm not certain about that (I've never owned or used one of the 'Mat' range). So do find a copy of the instructions and read them carefully before using the thing. And don't forget to show us your photos, once you've got used to everything being back to front in the viewfinder! Quite a weird sensation watching something go from left to right on the screen when it passes right to left! :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  36. Fraser Euan White

    Fraser Euan White

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    Shaun - I need a buddy to come to the 'clinic' with me to help cure this addiction! Do you fancy it?

    Seriously - hope you love the new purchase :)

    Fraser
     
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  37. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    This is all you guys’ fault :D

    Thanks for the info @Mr Badger , gonna do a lot of reading up on it before I dive into using it. Got a couple rolls of 120 on the way so hopefully it comes before Saturday when I’m next off to go out and have a play
     
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  38. excalibur2

    excalibur2 Loretta

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    ...and now you can join in the argument to be square or not for film format OR TLR ver SLR o_O :D
     
  39. Shaun Palmer

    Shaun Palmer

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    Haha, I’m already wondering how I decide which camera to take out with me, or just load them all up and take them all out :thinking:
     
  40. Mr Badger

    Mr Badger

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    That's the decision I sometimes struggle with, taking three cameras out with me for the day and then ending up with an un-finished film in one or two of them!

    As for film for your new LM, I find the Yashinon 635s seem to like Kodak Ektar 100 for colour (I found Portra 400 a bit muted with them, but that might be personal taste), for B&W I've had good results using Fuji Acros 100 and Ilford XP2 400, this is a handy film as you can expose it at 400 ISO in dull weather or 200 ISO in sunny conditions on the same roll of film, and it's a C41 colour development process so it's costs less than 'traditional' B&W if you send it to a lab. If home developing there would be an advantage to using traditional B&W though, as it's easier than C41!.

    Here's one from a 635 on Acros 100 to give you an idea of the detail and look you should get from a 6x6 100 ISO negative when scanned on your Epson photo flatbed:

    [​IMG]Jeep
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018

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