A quick review of the Gitzo Gimbal Fluid Head (with pictures).

HoppyUK said:
Just you and Superman then John. I've used a Canon 800L and there's no way on earth I would even attempt it without a monopod.
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Sorry no "Supermen" here! Just an unfit, arthritic, diabetic, overweight slob with arms like matchsticks and getting close to 60. But I still manage to do about a third of my photography (with this lens) hand held - a necessity not a choice. I am so pathetic that I struggle with my 100-400 at 1/400 sec or less! As I said big lenses are easy - even if only for a few seconds. The 800 is what I use for the vast majority of what I do and I do it day in and day out , well when the weather allows - this is Wales after all! As I said, if you get down this way I will happily demonstrate and get you doing it too. I have had this lens for over 4 years and know what it will and won't do regardless of others (who do not own one) who tell me otherwise. as to the benefits of IS at high shutter speeds? Ask Canon - I did and was told to shut it off at over 1/500 sec which shows the benefits - ask them for yourself they were quite up front about it with me.

Anyway this is getting a bit off topic. It is the Gitzo head that I am interested in as it may (?) have advantages over my current setup.
 
Nice shot Robin, we used to have a great site for them not far from me but a change of use put the Owls off the field. We used to see up to 6 flying at any one time over just this one (large) field at Rhumney Great Wharf. There are horses there now so much fewer small rodents and no more Owls! :mad:
 
johnf3f said:
as to the benefits of IS at high shutter speeds? Ask Canon - I did and was told to shut it off at over 1/500 sec which shows the benefits - ask them for yourself they were quite up front about it with me.
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....I normally leave IS on regardless of shutter speed (except on my Macro lens) because I don't like the 'wobbly' result in the viewfinder. However, I try to shoot my action shots at a minimum of 1/2000s if lighting allows and I am now wondering if the viewfinder will look less 'wobbly' when my 500mm is mounted on the Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head because of its damping. I shall have to try this out in the field when the light improves.

P.S. - I have just remembered that my Canon 500mm F/4L II has an IS mode which only actions IS at the split second the shutter is released, thereby saving lens time whilst tracking in AI-SERVO mode.

[Thanks for the compliment on my Owl shot, John]
 
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johnf3f said:
Sorry no "Supermen" here! Just an unfit, arthritic, diabetic, overweight slob with arms like matchsticks and getting close to 60.
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I'm not far behind you...
I shoot with a 400/2.8 with a 2x TC primarily... and I shoot *handheld a lot, and usually w/o VR (because I forget to turn it on)... the lens/camera combo weighs right at 7kg/15lbs. I have gotten good/sharp images at silly slow SS's this way (1/80), but not what I would call consistently.

I find that if I do my part the number of critically sharp images is in the 80+% range, regardless of how difficult the subject is... often at the higher end (ok, except chimney swifts/swallows). And if I don't do my part that quickly drops below 50%, regardless of how easy the subject is.
 
sk66 said:
Well, it should... the scene was never wobbling around to begin with! ;)
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....Ha ha :( So perhaps I used a term which wasn't accurate enough.

To clarify, without Image Stabilisation the target in the viewfinder is seen by the photographer without any stability.
 
RedRobin said:
....Ha ha :( So perhaps I used a term which wasn't accurate enough.

To clarify, without Image Stabilisation the target in the viewfinder is seen by the photographer without any stability.
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I understood...
The point is that all of the instability that causes the viewfinder/tracking issues is due to you transmitting shakes/judders/wobbles to the camera... and that's exactly what dampening/drag is meant to reduce.
 
sk66 said:
I understood...
The point is that all of the instability that causes the viewfinder/tracking issues is due to you transmitting shakes/judders/wobbles to the camera... and that's exactly what dampening/drag is meant to reduce.
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....Not exactly. As you already know, the longer the focal length a lens has, the more any movement will be emphasised to the naked eye through the viewfinder and it's not "all...due to you transmitting shakes/judders/wobbles to the camera" which suggests that the photographer is at fault. No-one can stand so perfectly still on this planet's surface such that absolutely no movement occurs and consequently some movement is visible through the viewfinder and telephoto lens. Hence why camera manufacturers include image stabilisation features.

My earlier question was whether the Gitzo's damping system would significantly reduce that movement as seen with the naked eye with IS/VR Off and I guess that in a somewhat roundabout way you have said that you think it would. Thanks.

As you decided to take your Gitzo head to pieces (and invalidate any warranty in so doing) I don't suppose you have shot enough with it to form opinions about resulting images. For my part, my rate of inflight keepers has significantly improved to date.
 
Robin - the only lens I have with IS Mode 3 is my 100-400 Mk2 and it is a great advance on previous IS systems as it interferes much less with AF and tracking. This is great because this is the only IS lens that I have that I ever use IS on! I didn't realise that you had the 500 Mk2 - very nice!

According to the Canon Rep I referred to earlier he advised turning off IS at higher shutter speeds (1/500 sec +) as it serves no function. As he explained there is simply a limit to how fast the elements can respond/move! Apparently this is standard advice from Canon or so he tells me. Naturally if you have a perched subject in low light then things change! Just a personal opinion but I would suggest that you leave IS off and turn it on when needed? This will vary according to your abilities and which IS system you have (the latest in your case) and how your lens is supported - hand/tripod etc.

I am still intrigued to try a Gitzo Gimbal out - the fluid function might be advantageous in some circumstances, the price is sensible and it will match my tripod:)
 
sk66 said:
I'm not far behind you...
I shoot with a 400/2.8 with a 2x TC primarily... and I shoot *handheld a lot, and usually w/o VR (because I forget to turn it on)... the lens/camera combo weighs right at 7kg/15lbs. I have gotten good/sharp images at silly slow SS's this way (1/80), but not what I would call consistently.

I find that if I do my part the number of critically sharp images is in the 80+% range, regardless of how difficult the subject is... often at the higher end (ok, except chimney swifts/swallows). And if I don't do my part that quickly drops below 50%, regardless of how easy the subject is.
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That's why I went for the 800mm, with a 1DX on the back it's only 6 kilos! Yes I am a complete wimp. Quite a while back I had the original EF 400 F2.8 L - lovely lens but a bit of a monster! Well over 6 kilos before you put a camera on it! I then went to the 600 F4 L IS Mk1 and when that got too much for me it was sold to fund the 800 - only 4.5 kilos;) I do like the extra mm's though. As I get more decrepit Robin's 500 Mk2 is looking interesting at about 3 kilos.

My nearest Camera Shop is still not listing the Gitzo Gimbal as in stock so more patience required on my part.............
 
RedRobin said:
I don't suppose you have shot enough with it to form opinions about resulting images. For my part, my rate of inflight keepers has significantly improved to date.
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No, I haven't shot anything particularly challenging since getting it (although I spent 7hrs and drove 170miles today). And I don't really expect it to increase my keeper rate significantly... it's usually pretty high anyway unless the subject is *really* difficult.
 
johnf3f said:
Robin - the only lens I have with IS Mode 3 is my 100-400 Mk2 and it is a great advance on previous IS systems as it interferes much less with AF and tracking. This is great because this is the only IS lens that I have that I ever use IS on! I didn't realise that you had the 500 Mk2 - very nice!

According to the Canon Rep I referred to earlier he advised turning off IS at higher shutter speeds (1/500 sec +) as it serves no function. As he explained there is simply a limit to how fast the elements can respond/move! Apparently this is standard advice from Canon or so he tells me. Naturally if you have a perched subject in low light then things change! Just a personal opinion but I would suggest that you leave IS off and turn it on when needed? This will vary according to your abilities and which IS system you have (the latest in your case) and how your lens is supported - hand/tripod etc.

I am still intrigued to try a Gitzo Gimbal out - the fluid function might be advantageous in some circumstances, the price is sensible and it will match my tripod:)
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....I am finding the fluid function already advantageous and particularly for birds-in-flight shots - I haven't come across running animals yet since having it. I shot some images at dawn this morning of birds flying across last night's supermoon with IS mode-3 and again the Gitzo's fluidity allowed very satisfying fine adjustment of the composition with much less of what I call 'wobbly' movement in the viewfinder as the IS is only actioned when the shutter is released. I rarely handhold my 500mm, especially if my 2x is mounted (surprisingly often), and so IS mode-3 can now be that lens' default setting < It's the Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head which is allowing me to feel comfortable with that technique and it feels better for me than a loosely balanced conventional gimbal which needs rebalancing every time I mount/unmount an Extender or which can flop unless the friction is just right.

As I mostly handhold my Canon 100-400mm L II, I prefer to keep IS on mode-2 as my default but will now use mode-3 for inflight shots (if there is time to change it!).

Inviting friends, all more experienced wildlife photographers than myself, to mount their camera on my Gitzo to try it out has resulted in instant sales orders! So be prepared to buy one if you like your first impressions, John!

Thanks for sharing the Canon rep's advice, John.
 
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sk66 said:
I decided to update this review for my website with full teardown pictures if anyone is interested.
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....Now that I've read your teardown review as one presentation, your comments posted throughout the two threads here on TP make much more sense to me! Good write up.

I met up again yesterday with my friend who is a well known professional wildlife photographer and he reiterated how well it performed in the extreme cold as I had posted earlier. Currently he is using a German Sachtler fluid head and says he is going to buy his own Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head.
 
RedRobin said:
....Now that I've read your teardown review as one presentation, your comments posted throughout the two threads here on TP make much more sense to me! Good write up.

I met up again yesterday with my friend who is a well known professional wildlife photographer and he reiterated how well it performed in the extreme cold as I had posted earlier. Currently he is using a German Sachtler fluid head and says he is going to buy his own Gitzo Fluid Gimbal Head.
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Thanks.
I still have an old Sachtler video head lying around somewhere... sounds to me like he knows what he's doing. But if he's willing to spend Sachtler money I think the RRS FG-02 is probably better (more versatile and 3 levels of fluid dampening), not that I have used one.
 
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sk66 said:
Thanks.
I still have an old Sachtler video head lying around somewhere... sounds to me like he knows what he's doing. But if he's willing to spend Sachtler money I think the RRS FG-02 is probably better (more versatile and 3 levels of fluid dampening), not that I have used one.
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....He most certainly does know what he's doing - Both his wildlife and landscape photography is widely published and his work is very highly regarded (but I am not going to name drop).

Most if not all Really Right Stuff (RRS) is excellent in my opinion - I have a RRS ballhead on my travel tripod and a RRS tilt head on my monopod after trying several other brands and I love RRS. But although the RRS FG-02 is more versatile and has 3 levels of fluid damping it is not necessarily "better" for everyone - I think it's heavier and far more unwieldy for wildlife walkabouts and is part of a system which is not necessarily all needed < I considered it but it's not the right horse for my course. Out of interest I'll ask my friend what he thinks of the RRS FG-02 when I next see him.
 
RedRobin said:
I considered it but it's not the right horse for my course. Out of interest I'll ask my friend what he thinks of the RRS FG-02 when I next see him.
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For me, the FG-02 is just too much money for something I don't really need. On one hand I don't like the modular design of it and it does weigh a good bit more. But it also packs down smaller for travel and can work for multi row panos (neither really matter to me). Has your friend used one? I'd be interested to hear...
 
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