A second 5DM3?

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dancook

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Having had the A7S for a little while now, I'm deciding that I probably don't want to replace my Canon system with Sony when it comes to weddings.

Whilst I'm hoping to see good things from the 5DM4, but I have a wedding to shoot in June.

should I buy a second 5dm3? or does anyone have a case for a different option?

I also need to buy a 35mm AF lens, I'm guessing the Sigma is a no brainer.
 
simonblue said:
You just need a backup camera,maybe look for an s/h MKII or even an 6D :)
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I like shooting primes, so the idea was to have 35mm + 85mm - so I'd probably use them both

My next question was whether I was missing a FL

21mm 2.8, 35mm 1.4 (once bought), 85mm 1.2, 135 2.0, 200 2.0
 
One option would be a used (or new) 5DMkIII another would be to hire one if you are trying to hold out until the 5DMkiV comes out ...

imo, looks a decent set of primes.
 
dancook said:
I like shooting primes, so the idea was to have 35mm + 85mm - so I'd probably use them both

My next question was whether I was missing a FL

21mm 2.8, 35mm 1.4 (once bought), 85mm 1.2, 135 2.0, 200 2.0
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I like my zooms,so for me the most important lens would be the 24-70mm F2.8 :)
 
simonblue said:
I like my zooms,so for me the most important lens would be the 24-70mm F2.8 :)
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Never had a zoom, I'm not sure whether I need to get one. It might be a good redundancy - but I also like the 24mm 1.4 II FL, I like the 21mm but figure the 24mm 1.4 might be a bit more forgiving and AF would by handy.
 
Had this very same dilemma myself. Couldn't justify a second 5D3 as I only really need it for weddings so ended up getting a used 6D instead.
 
Vertigo1 said:
Had this very same dilemma myself. Couldn't justify a second 5D3 as I only really need it for weddings so ended up getting a used 6D instead.
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how do you find the differences between them? do you work to the strengths of each?
 
As above, if you're planning on buying a 5D4 to add to your collection aren't you better off hiring another 5D3 if the requirement to shoot weddings isn't your day job? Seems a bit excessive to buy another 5D3 for one day use.
 
stevelmx5 said:
As above, if you're planning on buying a 5D4 to add to your collection aren't you better off hiring another 5D3 if the requirement to shoot weddings isn't your day job? Seems a bit excessive to buy another 5D3 for one day use.
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Yes quite, I will shop around last time I looked it seemed quite expensive
 
dancook said:
how do you find the differences between them? do you work to the strengths of each?
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Well I've not had the 6D long and haven't used it "in anger" yet so time will tell. Basically I'll still treat the 5D3 as my main "go to" body but use the 6D for flexibility with a different lens mounted and obviously as a backup.

The main differences are obviously the AF and control layout. The AF is nowhere near as flexible or powerful as the 5D3 but, used with care, should be more than sufficient. The control differences (lack of joystick and different top buttons) will take a bit of getting used to I think. On the flipside, the 6D may prove to be a low light weapon as the high-ISO performance is about half a stop better than the 5D3 plus the centre AF point can focus down to -3EV.

Until I had the 6D I was basically shooting with the 5D3 and a 7D which was far from ideal. The IQ from the 5D3 was so superior that I was treating the 7D as purely a backup camera and hardly using it at all, preferring to swap lenses on the 5D3 all the time. The 6D should serve as an equal in terms of IQ and allow me to shoot with both far more "equally".
 
Alternatively, what's actually wrong with using the A7S alongside the 5D on the day? You know both cameras so shouldn't have the panic of an unfamiliar 'backup' and the Sony should easily equal or beat the Canon output, definitely in lower light.

You could mount the 21mm to the Sony alongside the 85mm on the Canon and keep the 35mm to hand as a quick swap on the 5D if the 21mm is too wide any time.

I've shot weddings/events with two un-matched systems and it's not the end of the world so long as you still carry enough batteries/cards.

Sounds more like you just want to buy another new toy but the 5D4 isn't available yet :0)
 
Don't know what other kind of photography you do, but I bought a second 5DIII (for Weddings) but have decided to go back to a day job - couldn't really justify keeping a second 5DIII that wasn't getting used, and decided that for all round purposes, I'd get myself a 7DII instead. My logic (GAS driven admittedly), was that the second 5DIII only gave me capability I already had, yet a 7DII would get me a higher pixel density for longer shots (i.e. more (Eff) reach). And the 7DII is almost identical to the 5DIII in handling terms. What's more, buying the 7DII was like getting a whole new set of long lenses and with just a 2xIII Extender and my existing 70-200 II, I now had 640mm f/5.6 equivalence - kind of 2 for the price of 1. Haven't had the 7DII very long yet, but have a Safari coming up, so will decide whether it stays or goes when I get back, but so far I'm liking it a lot. It's so like the 5DIII, it's like both it's little and big brother all at once, depending on which capabilities you compare. If I end up not using it so much, I'll turn them both into 1 x 5D4 when eventually that comes along and down in price a bit (next year?).
 
View: https://youtu.be/0T-3yp1nW3I


Gary Fong is doing some convincing :)


Sorry, I am so indecisive.. I had plans to get an A6000 to use with the 55mm 1.8 and a 35mm 1.4 to use with the A7S...

I was using the AF on the A7S yesterday and actually, AF-S on moving subjects at f4 was working fine. So I know I can get the bride and groom walking down the aisle..
 
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dancook said:
View: https://youtu.be/0T-3yp1nW3I


Gary Fong is doing some convincing :)
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Whats that saying? Proof is in the pudding, you know the potential pitfalls first hand. He's so excited about Sony he takes up all his spare time and uses all his own money to set up these 'shows' with the giant Sony exhibition stand, sure he does. Note that Canikon don't really need a mascot.
 
twist said:
Whats that saying? Proof is in the pudding, you know the potential pitfalls first hand. He's so excited about Sony he takes up all his spare time and uses all his own money to set up these 'shows' with the giant Sony exhibition stand, sure he does. Note that Canikon don't really need a mascot.
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The sony looks like a tight rope before me and the Canon is the safety net below, but I won't need it with my perfect balance...

:)

I'm still getting used to the AF system on the sony, and I haven't given it a fair trial yet. Mainly due to the C-AF being patchy, I forget you can use AF-S on moving targets with such success, just have to remember to press the button all the way down.
 
dancook said:
The sony looks like a tight rope before me and the Canon is the safety net below, but I won't need it with my perfect balance...

:)

I'm still getting used to the AF system on the sony, and I haven't given it a fair trial yet. Mainly due to the C-AF being patchy, I forget you can use AF-S on moving targets with such success, just have to remember to press the button all the way down.
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Like I said previously, you need to try the A6000, I think youll be pretty impressed with the AF, its far superior to the A7 AF system and its a real shame they havent figured out (yet) how to put it in the newer A7 cameras.

Sony has other real issues, not just AF, its not a mature enough system and handling is very marmite. They IMHO need to improve in a lot of other key areas before they will last the test of time with mass serious/paid shooters. They are gaining ground on the competition though and are a very good companion to a DSLR.
 
twist said:
Like I said previously, you need to try the A6000, I think youll be pretty impressed with the AF, its far superior to the A7 AF system and its a real shame they havent figured out (yet) how to put it in the newer A7 cameras.

Sony has other real issues, not just AF, its not a mature enough system and handling is very marmite. They IMHO need to improve in a lot of other key areas before they will last the test of time with mass serious/paid shooters. They are gaining ground on the competition though and are a very good companion to a DSLR.
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Yup, I will do that, I'll look at ordering it.

I am second shooting a wedding next month before I solo shoot another in June, so if the main is happy - It will be a good opportunity to use the A7S + A6000 combo then.
 
dancook said:
AF-S on moving subjects at f4 was working fine. So I know I can get the bride and groom walking down the aisle.
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Unless your Bride and Groom are running ninja style down the isle I reckon you should be able to focus on them with anything! As above, I've shot on a selection of considerably cheaper kit than you've already got in your kitbag with no concerns over AF etc.

I do think the majority of internet concerns over Sony C-AF performance for most uses (e.g. not birds in flight etc) is over-blown and potentially led in part by people who aim to benefit from consumers buying the next camera body in an attempt to resolve these perceived issues.

As you've said, you should use the Sony kit when you second-shoot and see in a real world situation just how 'bad' it is.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Unless your Bride and Groom are running ninja style down the isle I reckon you should be able to focus on them with anything! As above, I've shot on a selection of considerably cheaper kit than you've already got in your kitbag with no concerns over AF etc.

I do think the majority of internet concerns over Sony C-AF performance for most uses (e.g. not birds in flight etc) is over-blown and potentially led in part by people who aim to benefit from consumers buying the next camera body in an attempt to resolve these perceived issues.

As you've said, you should use the Sony kit when you second-shoot and see in a real world situation just how 'bad' it is.
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I have my own experience of the continuous af in that I can focus on a static object and take a photo which is out of focus, all because it pulses in and out.

This put me off using it with back button af
 
How's single shot focus? Is it not better framing/focussing single shots as required rather than relying on the camera tracking a slow walking couple down the isle and firing multiple shots then realising some are mis-focussed?

I'm not saying there's a single 'right' way to shoot but C-AF limitations shouldn't prevent the whole system being used.
 
stevelmx5 said:
How's single shot focus? Is it not better framing/focussing single shots as required rather than relying on the camera tracking a slow walking couple down the isle and firing multiple shots then realising some are mis-focussed?

I'm not saying there's a single 'right' way to shoot but C-AF limitations shouldn't prevent the whole system being used.
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Shooting moving subjects using AF-S is an odd experience, I can see it works - but this is how it was for me.

You frame the constantly moving subject, they do not appear in focus in the EVF
You hold down the shutter, there's a glimpse of focus and a photo has been taken
You see the subject move out of focus

I then have serious doubts as to whether the subject was in focus when the photo was taken.

Also, for example, you will want to see and capture facial expressions as they walk down the aisle, I can only assume that means you have to constantly keep pressing the shutter button half way to get a clear view.

I might be exaggerated the issue, and I'll just have to give it more of a chance.
 
dancook said:
Shooting moving subjects using AF-S is an odd experience, I can see it works - but this is how it was for me.

You frame the constantly moving subject, they do not appear in focus in the EVF
You hold down the shutter, there's a glimpse of focus and a photo has been taken
You see the subject move out of focus

I then have serious doubts as to whether the subject was in focus when the photo was taken.

Also, for example, you will want to see and capture facial expressions as they walk down the aisle, I can only assume that means you have to constantly keep pressing the shutter button half way to get a clear view.

I might be exaggerated the issue, and I'll just have to give it more of a chance.
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Same experience here, much prefer AF-C BBF with anything thats expected to move.
 
There is a "pre-AF" option on the Sony, maybe that's where it would be handy... not sure though. It doesn't trigger that quickly
 
dancook said:
I also need to buy a 35mm AF lens, I'm guessing the Sigma is a no brainer.
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Not sure it's that simple, given the 35A's widely reported focus issues! I just went through the same dilemma of choosing a 35, ended up with the 35L and couldn't be happier. The AF is a joy and the IQ is great. It cost me about the same used in mint condition as a new but grey import Sigma.
 
harryduns said:
Not sure it's that simple, given the 35A's widely reported focus issues! I just went through the same dilemma of choosing a 35, ended up with the 35L and couldn't be happier. The AF is a joy and the IQ is great. It cost me about the same used in mint condition as a new but grey import Sigma.
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Thanks accuracy was indeed a niggle in the back of my head - but now I've actually decided to order the 35mm 1.4 ZA Zeiss lens for the e-mount :)

I'll run the A7s on 35mm and 5dm3 85mm - with a plan to replace the canon with an e-mount body and new zeiss batis 85mm
 
harryduns said:
Not sure it's that simple, given the 35A's widely reported focus issues! I just went through the same dilemma of choosing a 35, ended up with the 35L and couldn't be happier. The AF is a joy and the IQ is great. It cost me about the same used in mint condition as a new but grey import Sigma.
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Widely reported issues? As many as any other fast prime from other manufacturers. Thats why your camera has MA and Sigma sell a dock if youre really anal.
 
dancook said:
Thanks accuracy was indeed a niggle in the back of my head - but now I've actually decided to order the 35mm 1.4 ZA Zeiss lens for the e-mount :)

I'll run the A7s on 35mm and 5dm3 85mm - with a plan to replace the canon with an e-mount body and new zeiss batis 85mm
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Youre replacing a 5d3 and 85 1.2 mk2 with an emount and 85 1.8, interesting move.
 
twist said:
Widely reported issues? As many as any other fast prime from other manufacturers. Thats why your camera has MA and Sigma sell a dock if youre really anal.
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...except the issues are *inconsistent* focus in different lighting conditions, and front/backfocusing between 2m and infinity, which the dock can only make one adjustment for!
 
Firstly the AF issues with the 35A are nowhere near as bad as some people make out - mine is fine and, whilst it does seem to miss/hunt now and then, it's no major issue. Of course it'll never be as accurate as a Canon lens as Sigma have to reverse engineer the algorithms.

Secondly, it's horses for courses. Whilst the Canon may have better AF, the IQ of the Sigma is significantly better, as it should be for a 14-year newer design. There are rumours of a 35L II and this is now long overdue. If any when it arrives then I may upgrade my 35A but, in the meantime, I'll put up with occasional AF misses in exchange for the superior image quality.
 
harryduns said:
...except the issues are *inconsistent* focus in different lighting conditions, and front/backfocusing between 2m and infinity, which the dock can only make one adjustment for!
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Are they inconsistent? Because Ive just received mine and its only inconsistent when I do something silly, the dock can make adjustments for various distances. My MA is +8 without dock adjustmnent but its spot on at all distances and focus in various light seems as good as any other fast prime Ive used. Optically its ridiculously good, better than any main manufacturer 35mm lens.
 
Vertigo1 said:
Firstly the AF issues with the 35A are nowhere near as bad as some people make out - mine is fine and, whilst it does seem to miss/hunt now and then, it's no major issue. Of course it'll never be as accurate as a Canon lens as Sigma have to reverse engineer the algorithms.

Secondly, it's horses for courses. Whilst the Canon may have better AF, the IQ of the Sigma is significantly better, as it should be for a 14-year newer design. There are rumours of a 35L II and this is now long overdue. If any when it arrives then I may upgrade my 35A but, in the meantime, I'll put up with occasional AF misses in exchange for the superior image quality.
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I can understand that IQ is the most important factor for some folks. I decided that AF consistency was more important for me personally; I do admit to being impressed by the Sigma's IQ, but couldn't take the chance on it being inconsistent. Missing a key moment at a wedding due to inconsistent AF is something I can do without gambling on!
 
harryduns said:
I can understand that IQ is the most important factor for some folks. I decided that AF consistency was more important for me personally; I do admit to being impressed by the Sigma's IQ, but couldn't take the chance on it being inconsistent. Missing a key moment at a wedding due to inconsistent AF is something I can do without gambling on!
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Cant say Ive found it less consistent than any other fast prime Ive used and Im not really biased because I have had my fair share of issues with Sigma lenses in the past. ARTs and OSs are definitely better with regards QC than the older lenses. But fair enough if you wanted a lens that more than likely would work on the first try without hassle.
 
If it's working well for you, that's good to hear! :) I am not here to bash Sigmas, honestly. I have not personally owned a Sigma Art lens (I own the 'Bigma' 50-500), and I was genuinely ready to buy one until I read many, many threads about AF problems whilst researching 35mm lenses. I didn't see anyone making similar complaints regarding the 35L, which has proven itself as a workhorse for a decade or two now. People's issues with the 35L are softness in corners, LoCA etc, but it seems ot have great, consistent AF from my tests so far. Lots of Sigma 35 buyers have had to send their lenses to Sigma several times to get one that worked for them, or have ended up returning it.

Ultimately Sigma seems to be producing some great lenses IQ-wise, and I'm sure if Canon allowed Sigma to use their AF protocols without them having to reverse engineer them, Sigma would probably be slaughtering Canon right now!
 
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dancook said:
Having had the A7S for a little while now, I'm deciding that I probably don't want to replace my Canon system with Sony when it comes to weddings. ....
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dancook said:
...
I'll run the A7s on 35mm and 5dm3 85mm - with a plan to replace the canon with an e-mount body and new zeiss batis 85mm
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Interesting change of heart there Dan :eek:
 
It's funny I asked once if the e-mount was good enough for professional use and I got loads of flak about how the equipment doesn't matter. It's the photographer that matters.. Etc..

Will I produce 'less impressive' images with a zeiss 85 1.8 than the canon?

Am I really the sum of my equipment. I was afraid of this..
 
dancook said:
It's funny I asked once if the e-mount was good enough for professional use and I got loads of flak about how the equipment doesn't matter. It's the photographer that matters.. Etc..

Will I produce 'less impressive' images with a zeiss 85 1.8 than the canon?

Am I really the sum of my equipment. I was afraid of this..
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I think in reality you know the gear makes a difference, whether its artistic or genuinely to achieve a good, consistent result. While i respect the a7s sensor performance i really dont think in the conditions you want your systems to work that what you are proposing makes much sense.
 
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