Beginner A slightly different take on the what camera thread.

München

München

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Jon
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I'm currently perusing everywhere from Amazon, to Ebay in search of inspiration as much as anything else for my first DSLR. I currently sport a thoroughly pleasant bridge camera, a Panasonic Lumix effort from about 9 years back that has seen me through a good few holidays and family does and 2 weddings, one of which was mine. I feel however that it just isn’t quite as manual an experience using it as I want, I fancy being able to play about with focus myself, and have a bit more control over what I’m taking a picture of rather than just picking a setting and trying to keep my hand as still as possible.

I’ve looked at everything from a second hand Nikon entry level thing from many years back for just a few euros to the latest model internet ready-control it with your smart phone and have a touchscreen and voice activated whatever, I’ve even looked at huge chunky second hand pro things with crap ISO ranges but that would double as a hand weapon against muggers late at night.

My question is this. Is it worth:----

A, Buying a camera that will take older lenses so that I can relieve the local second hand shop of the lovely retro telephoto and zoom things that they have for peanuts

B, Buying a Nik/Can and seeing if there are adaptors to be able to use said lovely retro things

C, Stop being a miser, get with the 21st century and realise what looks like a shiny trinket for peanuts is only for monkeys and that you have to pay for the good stuff.


Thanks in advance.
 
If you're wanting to use old lenses on a new camera i would suggest mirrorless this allows you to use a massive range of lenses using adapters.

Something from the Sony a6000, a6300 or a7 range depending on budget which you've not mentioned.

These cameras i've mentioned will give you full control over what you're shooting from full auto to full manual just like a DSLR but with the ability to use older lenses via adapters.
 
ste0803 said:
If you're wanting to use old lenses on a new camera i would suggest mirrorless this allows you to use a massive range of lenses using adapters.

Something from the Sony a6000, a6300 or a7 range depending on budget which you've not mentioned.

These cameras i've mentioned will give you full control over what you're shooting from full auto to full manual just like a DSLR but with the ability to use older lenses via adapters.
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Hate to rain on the mirrorless parade, but it has been possible to mount old lenses on Canon DSLR's with adapters from the beginning, it's not something that is new to mirrorless cameras. Fuji and Canon FD mounts being the only exceptions I'm aware of, though there could be more.

Nikon on the other hand are a different matter, there are very few adapters available for them.
 
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Steve B said:
Hate to rain on the mirrorless parade, but it has been possible to mount old lenses on Canon DSLR's with adapters from the beginning, it's not something that is new to mirrorless cameras. Fuji and Canon FD mounts being the only exceptions I'm aware of, though there could be more.

Nikon on the other hand are a different matter, there are very few adapters available for them.
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And I hate to rain on the DSLR parade but bodern DSLR's aren't usually very manual focus friendly are they? In fact manual focus with a modern DSLR is IMO a right royal PITA unless the detail you want to focus on is sufficiently big and clear through the VF to see and focus on. Personally I was only happy with manual focus on DSLR's for macro / pseudo macro stuff. YMMV.

München said:
I feel however that it just isn’t quite as manual an experience using it as I want, I fancy being able to play about with focus myself, and have a bit more control over what I’m taking a picture of rather than just picking a setting and trying to keep my hand as still as possible.
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If you are willing to look at mirrorless I'd recommend the Sony A7 series. They're full frame mirrorless cameras and you get to choose between various cameras with various mp counts from 12mp to 42mp.

I bought an early A7 24mp camera and use Olympus Zuiko, Minolta Rokkor and Canon FD's on it and manual focus is quite easy using the magnified view, focus peaking is also available and although some say it's useless I think it's pretty good and have had success with it.

Depending upon your budget you could go for the all singing all dancing A7rII with in body IS and a big price ticket or you could seek out a used 24mp A7 which you may find perfectly adequate.

My A7 is the best camera I've ever had, the files are gorgeous and it simply crushes my previous FF camera, Canon 5D.

Adapters for manual lenses start at under £10 on evil bay and you can get Made in Germany branded ones for £90 or so.

Good luck choosing but I think you own it to yourself to have a look at mirrorless cameras including the A7 series.
 
woof woof said:
And I hate to rain on the DSLR parade but bodern DSLR's aren't usually very manual focus friendly are they? In fact manual focus with a modern DSLR is IMO a right royal PITA unless the detail you want to focus on is sufficiently big and clear through the VF to see and focus on. Personally I was only happy with manual focus on DSLR's for macro / pseudo macro stuff. YMMV.
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Never had a problem, my first year shooting with a DSLR was with Pentax mount lenses on a Canon 300D, couldn't afford new lenses as well as the body. Still use those old lenses now at times, must be a glutton for punishment, even shot an airshow recently with an old manual focus 70-200mm :)
 
Steve B said:
Never had a problem, my first year shooting with a DSLR was with Pentax mount lenses on a Canon 300D, couldn't afford new lenses as well as the body. Still use those old lenses now at times, must be a glutton for punishment, even shot an airshow recently with an old manual focus 70-200mm :)
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As I said YMMV but the fact remains that DSLR's like your 300D (and I had one of those and I have thousands of manual focus shots taken with one) aren't built for manual focus. There are no focus aids and the OVF is frankly poor. That's not to say that good results aren't possible but it's like playing football in high heels (not that I do that...) It's just not what the kit was made for.

Try a 300D and a mirrorless camera side by side for manual focus and it's the Wright Bro's v a Eurofigher Typhoon.

IMO :D YMMV.

And of course no matter how good an APS-C DSLR is using old manual lenses on them changes the field of view. That may be a good thing... and I enjoy using manual lenses on my Panasonic G1 but to get the closest to the old film experience with a digital camera I think that a "Full frame" camera is possibly the best option and it just so happens that the Sony A7 series are good for manual focus and are also... FF :D

As I said, they're at least worth a look and used A7 bodies can be found relatively cheaply these days.
 
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woof woof said:
As I said YMMV but the fact remains that DSLR's like your 300D (and I had one of those and I have thousands of manual focus shots taken with one) aren't built for manual focus. There are no focus aids and the OVF is frankly poor. That's not to say that good results aren't possible but it's like playing football in high heels (not that I do that...) It's just not what the kit was made for.

Try a 300D and a mirrorless camera side by side for manual focus and it's the Wright Bro's v a Eurofigher Typhoon.

IMO :D YMMV.

And of course no matter how good an APS-C DSLR is using old manual lenses on them changes the field of view. That may be a good thing... and I enjoy using manual lenses on my Panasonic G1 but to get the closest to the old film experience with a digital camera I think that a "Full frame" camera is possibly the best option and it just so happens that the Sony A7 series are good for manual focus and are also... FF :D

As I said, they're at least worth a look and used A7 bodies can be found relatively cheaply these days.
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I use the LCD (zoomed if need be) to MF on DSLRs. It's the same as mirrorless except you're looking at it on the screen in the back rather than a little screen in the EVF.
 
Some definate food for though here, many thanks everyone. I've just looked at A7rII, stunning, and almost exactly 8 times budget! :LOL:

More googling for me I think.
 
odd jim said:
I use the LCD (zoomed if need be) to MF on DSLRs. It's the same as mirrorless except you're looking at it on the screen in the back rather than a little screen in the EVF.
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Just my opinion but looking at a high quality evf with the camera to my eye seems vastly superior to back screen shooting point and shoot style.
 
München said:
Some definate food for though here, many thanks everyone. I've just looked at A7rII, stunning, and almost exactly 8 times budget! :LOL:

More googling for me I think.
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Or a second hand Nex 6 :)
I'm biased!

...and I'd have to agree with Alan, unless you're a masochist :)
 
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I'm a recent convert and studied and checked out the mirrorless systems and the one that has suited me best is the Fuji :)
I have a vast Arsenal of Len's in various mounts and have managed to find all the adapters I need on ebay to fit them.:):fuji:
But go and check out all whats on the market but the Fuji's are very retro looking especially the Xpro1 :)
 
woof woof said:
Just my opinion but looking at a high quality evf with the camera to my eye seems vastly superior to back screen shooting point and shoot style.
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It is better as I don't like holding cameras like that but the functionality is the same.

TBH the only MF lens I have to do that with is the Samyang 14mm as its so wide.
 
Phiggys said:
I'm a recent convert and studied and checked out the mirrorless systems and the one that has suited me best is the Fuji :)
I have a vast Arsenal of Len's in various mounts and have managed to find all the adapters I need on ebay to fit them.:):fuji:
But go and check out all whats on the market but the Fuji's are very retro looking especially the Xpro1 :)
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The Fuji XT-1 is one of the best cameras I have used for manual focus, the EVF is huge and clear and used in split image mode makes focusing manual lenses a doddle. Cant compare it to the Sony's as I haven't used one, but it sounds like an X-T1 may be nearer your budget.
 
woof woof said:
Try a 300D and a mirrorless camera side by side for manual focus and it's the Wright Bro's v a Eurofigher Typhoon.
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I do :)
Much as I enjoy mirrorless, I wouldnt be without a DSLR, even with manual focus lenses.
The old brick of a 300D is still going strong, but rarely used, having been replaced with a 600D which is light years ahead and still old tech by todays standards.
 
Just had a quick look at some used stockists and cheapest A7 I found was £624 AT MPB but I'm pretty sure I've seen them for between £500-600 in the past. A crackingly good FF camera for that money IMO.
 
München said:
I have done and even then its just out of range. I may save for a month or two more.
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What sort of budget have you got ?
XT1 are around £500 now used
XT 10 £350 ish used and under £400 New
XE2 £300 0r less has the evf and a new major firmware update is available :)
Xpr01 £200 or less LCE have one @£199 used warranted :)
Just got brand new XM1 £175 and a XA2 with 16-50mm XC ois £270 :)
I have paid is £500 for a low use XT1 s/h
:fuji:
 
How about a Canon m with IS eos-m 18-55mm, 22mm f2.0 eos adapter others are available as well ?:)
If your wanting to use old mf lens its not a problem and AF isn't that bad since the firmware update 18mp APSc sensor :)
 
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Phiggys said:
What sort of budget have you got ?
XT1 are around £500 now used
XT 10 £350 ish used and under £400 New
XE2 £300 0r less has the evf and a new major firmware update is available :)
Xpr01 £200 or less LCE have one @£199 used warranted :)
Just got brand new XM1 £175 and a XA2 with 16-50mm XC ois £270 :)
I have paid is £500 for a low use XT1 s/h
:fuji:
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My budget is currently around 350 euros with an optional bit more for a new model provided I buy from amazon (vouchers).

If I'm honest I found Nikon to be the most powerful draw at first but that was when I was looking solely at DSLRs. The 5300 being of real intrest. Now the idea of mirrorless has come up I feel like I'm back to square one, but then who doesn't like window shopping online for shiny things? :)
 
Will you be using mid to long telephoto lenses? If you do, the size / weight advantages of mirrorless systems go out the window!
 
I really couldn't care less about size and weight in truth. The problem I have with my bridge camera is it's neither fish nor foul. It may have a slight size and weight advantage over a DSLR but its still too big to take around in anything but a large rucksack so it doesnt go everywhere with me, I have a phone for those on the spot pictures and they come out just fine for what they are. I'm a big strong lad and I wouldnt have any issues lugging around a kilo of camera body if necessary as when its with me its there for a reason, if that makes any sense?
 
I think budget would be helpful here.
Do you have a fixed budget that has to pay for a camera and lenses or do you have some flexibility?

How are you with the size and weight of a DSLR?
Do you like shooting with a viewfinder or are you happy with just a screen?

If you want something small and aren't bothered about a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A5000 (or older NEX5/6) or look at the Fuji XM1.
If you want a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A6000 and Fuji XE1 and XE2

If you want something bigger, more DSLR-style, but with an electronic viewfinder, then look at the Fuji XT10 (pretty much the same spec as the XT-1 but slightly smaller) or the Sony a7.

If you want a DSLR, then the world is your oyster. There are hundreds of used Nikon and Canon DSLRs around the place for every budget.

If you are really keen on using older manual focus lenses, then Sony cameras seem to have the edge with very useful focus peaking (highlighting the in-focus bits of the image in the viewfinder) and many adaptors. But to my mind, it's only worth going down the route of using older manual focus lenses if they offer something special, over and above the modern AF lenses you have.
I use a couple of old M42 lenses on my Canon DSLR, but only if I want to do something in particular or have the old-lens-flarey effect.

It does also depend on what sort of stuff you're interested in shooting. And if you don't have an idea about that yet, you might be better getting a camera with a couple of AF lenses and see how you progress from there before getting into more specialised lenses.
 
München said:
My budget is currently around 350 euros with an optional bit more for a new model provided I buy from amazon (vouchers).

If I'm honest I found Nikon to be the most powerful draw at first but that was when I was looking solely at DSLRs. The 5300 being of real intrest. Now the idea of mirrorless has come up I feel like I'm back to square one, but then who doesn't like window shopping online for shiny things? :)
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ABTog said:
I think budget would be helpful here.
Do you have a fixed budget that has to pay for a camera and lenses or do you have some flexibility?
How are you with the size and weight of a DSLR?
Do you like shooting with a viewfinder or are you happy with just a screen?

If you want something small and aren't bothered about a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A5000 (or older NEX5/6) or look at the Fuji XM1.
If you want a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A6000 and Fuji XE1 and XE2

If you want something bigger, more DSLR-style, but with an electronic viewfinder, then look at the Fuji XT10 (pretty much the same spec as the XT-1 but slightly smaller) or the Sony a7.

If you want a DSLR, then the world is your oyster. There are hundreds of used Nikon and Canon DSLRs around the place for every budget.

If you are really keen on using older manual focus lenses, then Sony cameras seem to have the edge with very useful focus peaking (highlighting the in-focus bits of the image in the viewfinder) and many adaptors. But to my mind, it's only worth going down the route of using older manual focus lenses if they offer something special, over and above the modern AF lenses you have.
I use a couple of old M42 lenses on my Canon DSLR, but only if I want to do something in particular or have the old-lens-flarey effect.

It does also depend on what sort of stuff you're interested in shooting. And if you don't have an idea about that yet, you might be better getting a camera with a couple of AF lenses and see how you progress from there before getting into more specialised lenses.
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350euros i think or there about's from what he stated :)
 
ABTog said:
I think budget would be helpful here.
Do you have a fixed budget that has to pay for a camera and lenses or do you have some flexibility?

How are you with the size and weight of a DSLR?
Do you like shooting with a viewfinder or are you happy with just a screen?

If you want something small and aren't bothered about a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A5000 (or older NEX5/6) or look at the Fuji XM1.
If you want a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A6000 and Fuji XE1 and XE2

If you want something bigger, more DSLR-style, but with an electronic viewfinder, then look at the Fuji XT10 (pretty much the same spec as the XT-1 but slightly smaller) or the Sony a7.

If you want a DSLR, then the world is your oyster. There are hundreds of used Nikon and Canon DSLRs around the place for every budget.

If you are really keen on using older manual focus lenses, then Sony cameras seem to have the edge with very useful focus peaking (highlighting the in-focus bits of the image in the viewfinder) and many adaptors. But to my mind, it's only worth going down the route of using older manual focus lenses if they offer something special, over and above the modern AF lenses you have.
I use a couple of old M42 lenses on my Canon DSLR, but only if I want to do something in particular or have the old-lens-flarey effect.

It does also depend on what sort of stuff you're interested in shooting. And if you don't have an idea about that yet, you might be better getting a camera with a couple of AF lenses and see how you progress from there before getting into more specialised lenses.
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Nex 6 has a viewfinder
 
München said:
I really couldn't care less about size and weight in truth. The problem I have with my bridge camera is it's neither fish nor foul. It may have a slight size and weight advantage over a DSLR but its still too big to take around in anything but a large rucksack so it doesnt go everywhere with me, I have a phone for those on the spot pictures and they come out just fine for what they are. I'm a big strong lad and I wouldnt have any issues lugging around a kilo of camera body if necessary as when its with me its there for a reason, if that makes any sense?
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TBH I'd look at a DSLRs then. Far more lenses available especially the longer lengths. A lot more lenses and bodies available on the used market too.
 
Phiggys said:
X pro1, XE2,XT10 all have viewfinders as well and in budget with some shopping around ;)
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I was just pointing out that from your post it would appear as if the Nex 6 didn't.

'If you want something small and aren't bothered about a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A5000 (or older NEX5/6) or look at the Fuji XM1.'
 
If you want a DSLR have a look a used Pentax.

All old Pentax K mount lenses will fit Pentax DSLRs. I have said "Pentax K mount" here because I have heard of, though not experienced, a problem with K mount lenses made by Ricoh. They can apparently get stuck on the camera and need a repair shop to remove them. However, there is no problem with K mount lenses made by Pentax (and other makes too). I have a Sigma K mount lens I bought 40+ ago that works with my problem on my Pentax DSLR.

The old Pentax K mount lenses to look for are 'A' lenses. These have a letter A on the aperture ring after the highest f number. On these lenses the focus is manual but the aperture is controlled by the camera. Focussing manually with a DSLR is more difficult than it is with 35mm film SLRs but it is far from impossible. The image stabilisation is in the camera with Pentax so any old lenses used on Pentaxs are stabilised.

This article has some info on using old Pentax lenses - http://www.robertsdonovan.com/?p=1181

You can probably get a good deal on secondhand Pentax DSLRs now and there are hundreds of old Pentax K mount lenses around. The difficultly you will find is trying to find old wide angle lenses. An old 28mm lens which, on a 35mm camera is wide angle, gives the field of view of 42mm on current crop factor DSLRs, but this is the same for all old lenses used on cameras with cropped sensors, irrespective of brand.

Dave
 
kendo1 said:
I was just pointing out that from your post it would appear as if the Nex 6 didn't.

'If you want something small and aren't bothered about a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A5000 (or older NEX5/6) or look at the Fuji XM1.'
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My bad. I couldn't find a NEX6 on the spot to check if it had a viewfinder. My point was merely that some of the smaller mirrorless cameras don't have a viewfinder (although some do have the option to add one).

(I didn't spot the budget either)
 
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Tringa said:
All old Pentax K mount lenses will fit Pentax DSLRs. I have said "Pentax K mount" here because I have heard of, though not experienced, a problem with K mount lenses made by Ricoh. They can apparently get stuck on the camera and need a repair shop to remove them. However, there is no problem with K mount lenses made by Pentax (and other makes too). I have a Sigma K mount lens I bought 40+ ago that works with my problem on my Pentax DSLR.
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Correct, the KR mount has a sprung pin on it which will lock it on Pentax K mount cameras. There are ways to remove it, but probably more trouble than it's worth. Makes the KR lenses a real bargain for use with adapters on other makes of camera though, the adapter will keep the pin depressed, so no problems with it getting stuck.
 
You don't say what old lenses you've seen locally.
Some old lenses really aren't worth the hassle, but some are.

One other thought about older lenses. If you get a Sony with E-mount (a7/A5000/NEX) you can get an adaptor that will allow you to mount Sony/Minolta A-mount lenses on it. And there are a fair few of them (though I'm not sure if all of them will do auto-focus due to some needing a motor in the body).

And in the interests of fairness one should also mention that most old manual Nikon lenses can be mounted on modern Nikon DSLRs without an adaptor because Nikon haven't changed their basic mount.
 
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ABTog said:
My bad. I couldn't find a NEX6 on the spot to check if it had a viewfinder. My point was merely that some of the smaller mirrorless cameras don't have a viewfinder (although some do have the option to add one).

(I didn't spot the budget either)
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I have a couple ... :D
 
kendo1 said:
I was just pointing out that from your post it would appear as if the Nex 6 didn't.

'If you want something small and aren't bothered about a viewfinder, then look at the Sony A5000 (or older NEX5/6) or look at the Fuji XM1.'
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No not at all i even mentioned the Canon m as another option tbh I would go out to a dealer and try out what ever models you can before making any decissions :)
I have nothing against Sony they make GR8 Audio visual gear;)
 
WingTsun said:
Probably easies would to buy into the Nikon system. Get one of the models that has an inbuilt lens motor and you'll be able to used hundreds of old but still very good lenses with the need for adapters or a second thought.
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Easy to buy, but relatively poor for using old manual focus cost peanuts lenses on which was one of the OP requirements.
 
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