A Small and Unimportant Quandray

Andysnap

Andysnap

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Andy Grant
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I have been thinking, this is a dangerous and foolhardy idea at the best of times but when bonus time is approaching it is positively stoopid....

Anyway, I had kind of set my heart on a Rollieflex but the more I consider it the more I'm thinking that I'm actually very happy with the quality of my Mamiya system and I'm not sure I really need another TLR and also I sort of miss landscapes in a rectangular format, 6 x 7 or even 6 x 9. Now I know that I can crop a square (which, by the way it is still hip to be) but I think that for wide panoramic landscapes eg Lakes or Scottish Highlands I 'see' the shot better as a rectangle, does that sound reasonable or am I just talking pish and/or tosh?

So, basically, suggestions please. 6 x 7 or 6 x 9 cameras, what's out there (not a Fuji 690 though, tried that, didn't really get on with it). Ground rules are; needs to be reasonably light and compact, so not an RB67 etc, sharp, definitely sharp and budget up to £800. Don't mind if its interchangeable lenses or fixed as I have legs......:D

Thinking about it even 6 x 4.5 would be ok but it would have to be extra spesh. :naughty:

Cheers

Andy
 
Pentax 67, light, portable and and inconspicuous. Great choice of lenses, eye or waist level viewfinders and you can put it on display with the Pentax Auto 110 for a little bit of comedy.
 
Definitely on the list Nick, cheers.

I might have guessed you'd suggest the Fuji Steve, but its a contender if I go 6 x 4.5.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
I did see a very nice looking Fuji GX617 with 90mm and 180mm lens today but at £3250 it's a 'little' over budget!
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Just slightly and I have only one kidney left. Would be nice though.
 
Andysnap said:
So, basically, suggestions please. 6 x 7 or 6 x 9 cameras, what's out there (not a Fuji 690 though, tried that, didn't really get on with it). Ground rules are; needs to be reasonably light and compact, so not an RB67 etc, sharp, definitely sharp and budget up to £800. Don't mind if its interchangeable lenses or fixed as I have legs......:D
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What was it that you didn't like about the Fuji GW690? Many of the more compact, lighter options in medium format are going to a similar type of camera (i.e., rangefinder), I would imagine.
 
How about something like a Fuji 645AF? Interchangeable lenses so you can dismantle it to reallocate space in your bag.
If weight is the main consideration, maybe a Bronica ETRS? I didn't get on with the ergonomics but it was very compact and can be had for very little money.
 
skysh4rk said:
What was it that you didn't like about the Fuji GW690? Many of the more compact, lighter options in medium format are going to a similar type of camera (i.e., rangefinder), I would imagine.
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It just felt too much like, well...digital...I didn't connect with it at all and I normally like rangefinders.
 
robhooley167 said:
How about something like a Fuji 645AF? Interchangeable lenses so you can dismantle it to reallocate space in your bag.
If weight is the main consideration, maybe a Bronica ETRS? I didn't get on with the ergonomics but it was very compact and can be had for very little money.
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Mmm 645AF you say, research begins. I have considered the Bronnys and price wise they seem a bit of a steal and reviews are always good, a definite maybe.
 
Andysnap said:
Mmm 645AF you say, research begins. I have considered the Bronnys and price wise they seem a bit of a steal and reviews are always good, a definite maybe.
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One of the 645AFs would reduce the need to carry a lightmeter too
 
The thing I'd say about acquiring one of the 645 interchangeable lens system cameras like the Bronica, etc. is that you can already easily and more cost-effectively get 6x4.5cm negatives just by cropping a shot from the Mamiya you already own.
 
skysh4rk said:
The thing I'd say about acquiring one of the 645 interchangeable lens system cameras like the Bronica, etc. is that you can already easily and more cost-effectively get 6x4.5cm negatives just by cropping a shot from the Mamiya you already own.
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Yep...and I've still got a Pentax 67 and Fuji's GX680 and GW690 I can recommend. ( haven't shot them for months though)
Maybe look at Mamiya 7 ? No idea of what they cost mind.
 
If you could save a tiny bit longer, then a second hand Fuji GF670 would be in budget - they are about £850 on ebay at the moment (e.g. search for item 331116428269 - I'm not giving a link as it annoys me to find expired ebay links years later on forums!), so you'd basically need to save the import fees to make it in budget. Gorgeous camera, sharp lens, built in meter and folds up to nothing. What more is there to like? I'd have one in a second...
 
Andy, I have shared my Rollei affliction before and the Rolleiflex is a thing of beauty, but in all honesty your Mamiya 6x6 outfit is in real terms more versatile and you are clearly getting great results from it. Although I would be burned at the stake in Braunschweig for saying this I am not sure what you would get from a Rollei that you can't already achieve!

I also shoot 645 and like my ETRS outfit but I have of late been giving serious thought to a 6x7 of some sort. It is personal thing but given that you are an experienced 6x6 shooter I think you might find 645 a bit small.

I think the call of 6x7 or bigger might be the way to go! For my 2p worth the Pentax 6x7 looks like it has the feel of a manageable, all be it big, shooter. I used a Fuji 680 some years ago and lovers it, but it was a monster!

2p worth over:)
 
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Andy, if you want to try a Pentax 67, a Mamiya 645 or a Fuji GS645 just let me know. Or you could stop messing about with MF and buy yourself another Bessa.
 
I shot with a Mamiya 645Pro for a while and although it was a nice (more modern) feeling camera than some of the other Medium Format kit I've used, I struggled to enjoy it for some reason? I liked that it had a built in meter and I could basically shoot as I do with a DSLR in aperture priority but I enjoyed the Kowa 6 I was shooting at the same time more.

I'd agree with the Mamiya 7 or Fuji GF670 recommendations above though. The results Osh gets from his Mamiya 7 are stunning and the GF670 delivers the quirkiness of a folder with the practicality of the rangefinder. I've got an old Ensign Selfix folder and although it's 6x7, I find the zone/distance focussing a pain for anything other than landscape shots.

Steve
 
My first thought was a Mamiya 7, but the prices rule it out.

As a Mamiya RZ67 user, I don't find it particularly heavy, and have stuffed it in a backpack before now along with my 5x4 "just in case". I just checked, and as near as I can detemine, it weighs the same as the Pentax 67 when comparing like with like (the manual gives the RZ67 weight with waist level finder, film back and standard lens as 2490g, which appears to be just under 5.5 pounds. 5.5 pounds was given as the weight of a Pentax 67 on a site I just looked at.
 
Oh lordy, so many options and so much useful info, thanks everyone.

I suspect that Adrian is correct and I would not get what I need from 6 x 4.5. I shall have a mull and cogitate.
 
I'd vote for ETRs.....with the prism and speed grip it handles like a large SLR and you get 15 shots and more with spare backs preloaded....just bought a 150mm lens for mine, and 50 or 40mm next.
Also as Stephen says the RB67 is not heavy in a back pack and when I go on holiday my back pack weighs 18lb with camera gear and that's not heavy either..... but the problem is sweat soaking the back pack. :eek:
 
StephenM said:
My first thought was a Mamiya 7, but the prices rule it out.

As a Mamiya RZ67 user, I don't find it particularly heavy, and have stuffed it in a backpack before now along with my 5x4 "just in case". I just checked, and as near as I can detemine, it weighs the same as the Pentax 67 when comparing like with like (the manual gives the RZ67 weight with waist level finder, film back and standard lens as 2490g, which appears to be just under 5.5 pounds. 5.5 pounds was given as the weight of a Pentax 67 on a site I just looked at.
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Personally, if I were going for 6x7, I'd be looking at the Mamiya 7, Fuji GF670, Pentax 67, or RZ67. Unsurprisingly though, they all have their own unique pluses and minuses.

The Mamiya 7's combination of great lenses and superb film flatness makes for stunningly sharp photos. It's also relatively small and light, but it's price tag isn't necessarily, although I've seen a few secondhand ones go for competitive prices.

The Fuji GF670 doesn't have quite the same reputation as the Mamiya, but it too is supposed to have a nice lens, maintain good film flatness, and be quite 'pocketable' (for MF anyway). Its lens is slightly faster than any of the other Mamiya 7 lens offerings and it can switch between 6x6 and 6x7 formats. These are fairly expensive and there aren't many used ones around; I'm not sure how different you'd find any of the Fuji rangefinder offerings from your previous GW690 though.

The Pentax 67 system offers one of the lenses I'd most like to have in all of medium format cameras (105mm f/2.4), but the camera is large and, for this size a camera, I prefer the option of a waist level finder. Now, the Pentax does have a waist level finder, but its rectangular format and landscape orientation mean that you can't take any vertical, portrait-oriented photos without some skilful manoeuvring, which, in my book, severely limits its functionality.

The RZ67 is obviously a beast, but it has the option of a WLF and the film back rotates, so you can take portrait shots without needing to rotate the entire camera. The RZ also must be one of the most versatile systems out there, with plenty of used, affordable lens options and all kinds of different backs, which allow you to shoot many different formats, including: 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, instant polaroid-type film, and even, gasp, digital. It's probably the most affordable of any of these as well.
 
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skysh4rk said:
Personally, if I were going for 6x7, I'd be looking at the Mamiya 7, Fuji GF670, Pentax 67, or RZ67. Unsurprisingly though, they all have their own unique pluses and minuses.

The Mamiya 7's combination of great lenses and superb film flatness makes for stunningly sharp photos. It's also relatively small and light, but it's price tag isn't necessarily, although I've seen a few secondhand ones go for competitive prices.

The Fuji GF670 doesn't have quite the same reputation as the Mamiya, but it too is supposed to have a nice lens, maintain good film flatness, and be quite 'pocketable' (for MF anyway). Its lens is slightly faster than any of the other Mamiya 7 lens offerings and it can switch between 6x6 and 6x7 formats. These are fairly expensive and there aren't many used ones around; I'm not sure how different you'd find any of the Fuji rangefinder offerings from your previous GW690 though.

The Pentax 67 system offers one of the lenses I'd most like to have in all of medium format cameras (105mm f/2.4), but the camera is large and, for this size a camera, I prefer the option of a waist level finder. Now, the Pentax does have a waist level finder, but its rectangular format and landscape orientation mean that you can't take any vertical, portrait-oriented photos without some skilful manoeuvring, which, in my book, severely limits its functionality.

The RZ67 is obviously a beast, but it has the option of a WLF and the film back rotates, so you can take portrait shots without needing to rotate the entire camera. The RZ also must be one of the most versatile systems out there, with plenty of used, affordable lens options and all kinds of different backs, which allow you to shoot many different formats, including: 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, instant polaroid-type film, and even, gasp, digital. It's probably the most affordable of any of these as well.
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RJ, really interesting 6x7 critique
 
Jao said:
RJ, really interesting 6x7 critique
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Actually there is another option, although you don't see many complete systems for sale: The Bronica GS-1.

It's only a little bit bigger than the 6x6 SQ-A, but it's quite a bit smaller than the RZ or RB bodies and the Pentax 67 as well, I think. It too has 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, and polaroid backs, but, unlike the RZ/RB cameras, its backs do not rotate. It does, however, have a rotary viewfinder, which you can turn when you rotate the camera for portraits, so you are still always looking down like a WLF no matter which way the camera is oriented. Although these rotary viewfinders can be relatively pricey (£100-£150), the complete GS-1 system plus rotary finder should still fit very comfortably within Andy's stated budget. The lens lineup of the GS-1 isn't as fast as the other 6x7 SLR cameras (fastest lens is f/3.5), but it's competitive with the 6x7 rangefinders and the lenses are fairly affordable too. I think you can even get TTL flash for the GS-1, which I don't think any other 6x7 camera can offer.
 
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Ok, I've had a thunk. I'm starting to come around to the thoughts of interchangeable backs, could be useful. However I'm still a little concerned over weight and size as I do intend to lug the kit (including a D7100 and lens) up a few hills/small mountains.
I think I need to have a trip to Real Cameras and have a fondle of some of these suggestions as I can't weigh up (see what I did there) how heavy they would be after carrying them around all day...
Tricky one this.

Cheers everyone.

Andy
 
RaglanSurf said:
Andy, if you want to try a Pentax 67, a Mamiya 645 or a Fuji GS645 just let me know. Or you could stop messing about with MF and buy yourself another Bessa.
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Thanks for that Nick, I may well take you up on the offer and I will get another Bessa at some point.
 
srichards said:
Ffordes have a GS1 complete and tons of bronica stuff:

http://www.ffordes.com/product/10120307514531

http://www.ffordes.com/search/bronica
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Yeah, a few weeks back, when Ffordes first listed that near-mint complete GS-1 with prism for £299 (http://ffordes.com/product/13122417051581), I was just about ready to jump at it as that's a great price, but then I saw that the lens has balsam separation and I wasn't really sure how balsam separation would affect the image quality of the lens...
 
skysh4rk said:
but then I saw that the lens has balsam separation and I wasn't really sure how balsam separation would affect the image quality of the lens...
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Not much (if any) stopped down, but could affect results wide open.........also it could get worse but who knows may take another 20 years.
 
skysh4rk said:
Yeah, a few weeks back, when Ffordes first listed that near-mint complete GS-1 with prism for £299 (http://ffordes.com/product/13122417051581), I was just about ready to jump at it as that's a great price, but then I saw that the lens has balsam separation and I wasn't really sure how balsam separation would affect the image quality of the lens...
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The more I read about it the more I think this might be a good deal, the separation doesn't appear to make a huge difference to image quality and only then, as Brian points out, when wide open. And at that price I can afford to buy more lenses etc.:banana: I need to have a feel of one I think, of to Manchester on saturday so hopeful they will have one in RC.
 
if you get the tiny white spec type its like ghetto porta, image lacks contrast
 
Andysnap said:
The more I read about it the more I think this might be a good deal, the separation doesn't appear to make a huge difference to image quality and only then, as Brian points out, when wide open. And at that price I can afford to buy more lenses etc.:banana: I need to have a feel of one I think, of to Manchester on saturday so hopeful they will have one in RC.
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It seems Mifsuds have the rotary prism finder in stock: http://www.mifsuds.com/acatalog/Used-Bronica-GS-Cameras.html
 
Oh yes, so they do.
 
Andysnap said:
Oh yes, so they do.
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If you're interested in the GS-1, I recently came across an old Bronica brochure online with some info on the camera itself, its lenses, and its accessories:

Camera info and specifications: http://www.keh.com/PDFFolder/GS02001200036.pdf
Viewfinder options: http://www.keh.com/PDFFolder/GS13009001250.pdf
Info on some of the lenses: http://www.keh.com/PDFFolder/GS06001200034.pdf
Film back options: http://www.keh.com/PDFFolder/GS11009015479.pdf
Speed grip, TTL flashgun, and other accessories: http://www.keh.com/PDFFolder/GS18004999999.pdf
 
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