AD400 Pro on the way

mike weeks said:
Looks like an AD600 to me but let us wait and see
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That's exactly what I said on the page, but they were quick to come back and say it's definitely an AD400, they reckon it will be on sale in August, but like you say we will wait and see. If it's that soon I'm surprised Flash havoc have no news on it, they are normally pretty clued up.
 
https://read01.com/ePL8zgy.html#.WzzG8dJKguV

Assuming the price is good this could be incredibly popular.

Does make me wish Chinese firms would try to copy standardisation too though, do we really need a different size battery pack? Hopefully parts for the AD600 Pro are compatible (flash tube, head extension, dual adapter etc).
 
simonbarker said:
https://read01.com/ePL8zgy.html#.WzzG8dJKguV

Assuming the price is good this could be incredibly popular.

Does make me wish Chinese firms would try to copy standardisation too though, do we really need a different size battery pack? Hopefully parts for the AD600 Pro are compatible (flash tube, head extension, dual adapter etc).
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Yes there have to be differences otherwise we get people blowing things up however a bit of planning could make a universal system

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
Yes there have to be differences otherwise we get people blowing things up however a bit of planning could make a universal system
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Kinda my point, the AD400 Pro appears to be a cut down AD600 Pro, unless they've changed the battery to a different voltage I can't see an obvious reason to also change the flash tube and with the same tube most of the accessories should still work.

I don't know though, I'm assuming the battery is just lower capacity and if that assumption is correct I think it's a mistake not to have stuck with the same model as the AD600 Pro as it's a lot easier having only one set of batteries across multiple heads. If that assumption isn't correct then well, I hope they made it a lot cheaper.
 
simonbarker said:
Kinda my point, the AD400 Pro appears to be a cut down AD600 Pro, unless they've changed the battery to a different voltage I can't see an obvious reason to also change the flash tube and with the same tube most of the accessories should still work.

I don't know though, I'm assuming the battery is just lower capacity and if that assumption is correct I think it's a mistake not to have stuck with the same model as the AD600 Pro as it's a lot easier having only one set of batteries across multiple heads. If that assumption isn't correct then well, I hope they made it a lot cheaper.
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Custom batteries and tubes are integral to overall performance. I can't see them being standardised much and TBH it doesn't bother me too much. What really gets on my nerves is the multitude of different chargers I've collected and the rats nest of cables and plugs they all live in. A multi-dock charger would be good, or perhaps individual chargers that can be neatly coupled together and daisy-chained to a common mains plug.
 
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simonbarker said:
Kinda my point, the AD400 Pro appears to be a cut down AD600 Pro, unless they've changed the battery to a different voltage I can't see an obvious reason to also change the flash tube and with the same tube most of the accessories should still work.

I don't know though, I'm assuming the battery is just lower capacity and if that assumption is correct I think it's a mistake not to have stuck with the same model as the AD600 Pro as it's a lot easier having only one set of batteries across multiple heads. If that assumption isn't correct then well, I hope they made it a lot cheaper.
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You do not use a 600W tube on a 400W head or the other way round

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
You do not use a 600W tube on a 400W head or the other way round
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Yes you do, the vast majority of brands have been reusing flash tubes for several decades across multiple ranges, for example:

Profoto (Pro 6, 7, Pro, Pro Plus), Broncolor (flash man, Pulso 2/4, Pulso F 2/4, Pulso G, Unilite, Minipuls), Elinchrom (two main designs for: Classic, Style FX/BX/RX, D-lite, BXRI/BRX, Quadra A/S/Pro/HS), Bowens (Esprit, Esprit 2, Esprit Gemini, Gemini, then the 3 pin versions for the 750-1000 Ws heads, R/Pro) etc.

I don't see why you'd argue for making a new flash tube each time, using the same design means they can reduce costs with mass production and it makes it much easier to source replacements because you don't have to worry about them abandoning a specific model a few years along (again all on the theme of standardisation).
 
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simonbarker said:
Yes you do, the vast majority of brands have been reusing flash tubes for several decades across multiple ranges, for example:

Profoto (Pro 6, 7, Pro, Pro Plus), Broncolor (flash man, Pulso 2/4, Pulso F 2/4, Pulso G, Unilite, Minipuls), Elinchrom (two main designs for: Classic, Style FX/BX/RX, D-lite, BXRI/BRX, Quadra A/S/Pro/HS), Bowens (Esprit, Esprit 2, Esprit Gemini, Gemini, then the 3 pin versions for the 750-1000 Ws heads, R/Pro) etc.

I don't see why you'd argue for making a new flash tube each time, using the same design means they can reduce costs with mass production and it makes it much easier to source replacements because you don't have to worry about them abandoning a specific model a few years along (again all on the theme of standardisation).
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Not sure all those examples show much in the way of true standardisation. The Elinchrom Quadras for example, all those tubes might have a common fitting but they're all different and that's what gives each version it's particular performance characteristics. Flash tubes last forever anyway and are not that expensive at Godox prices.

Aren't all those older heads voltage-controlled? I suspect IGBT-control brings new demands with pulsed HSS and much more complex colour technology, but whatever the pros and cons, I don't see it happening with Godox. Their business model seems to be more about constant change, built-in redundancy and replacement. TBH we don't know what the long-term looks like yet and there may be a flip-side.
 
HoppyUK said:
Not sure all those examples show much in the way of true standardisation. The Elinchrom Quadras for example, all those tubes might have a common fitting but they're all different and that's what gives each version it's particular performance characteristics. Flash tubes last forever anyway and are not that expensive at Godox prices.
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There's just two types for most of the Quadras, A heads use the same as D-lite and Style BX/RX heads and S heads use the same tube as you'll find in BXRI/BRX and Pro heads. I'm not sure about HS or their new TTL 500 heads.

HoppyUK said:
Aren't all those older heads voltage-controlled? I suspect IGBT-control brings new demands with pulsed HSS and much more complex colour technology, but whatever the pros and cons, I don't see it happening with Godox. Their business model seems to be more about constant change, built-in redundancy and replacement. TBH we don't know what the long-term looks like yet and there may be a flip-side.
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They are and I did think about that but until someone presents evidence otherwise the flash tube appears to be one of the dumbest parts of a flash head and I saw the same behaviour from Chinese firms on their voltage controlled units so I'm of the opinion it's more because of how they design and make kit rather than a technical limitation/challenge of IGBT.
 
simonbarker said:
Bleh different battery voltage, different flash tube...

Still want one though.
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That's why I said
mike weeks said:
You do not use a 600W tube on a 400W head or the other way round

Mike
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Why would they make it the same and make it easy, of course it becomes a real pain when you buy spare bulbs and never need to use them

Mike
 
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HoppyUK said:
Pixapro CITI400 Pro version is now available for pre-order at £685 from Essential Photo, including standard reflector and Bowens S-mount adapter. No delivery date given. The CITI600 Pro is currently £775, so not the £200 price differential I was rather hoping for.
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While I like the size and weight advantage I was expecting a bigger price gap.

I can't see many people reasoning a £90 inc VAT saving and the previously mentioned advantages are a good trade for less power, a smaller battery and a whole new set of accessories.

Hopefully the bit saying price TBC means it's not final.
 
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HoppyUK said:
Pixapro CITI400 Pro version is now available for pre-order at £685 from Essential Photo, including standard reflector and Bowens S-mount adapter. No delivery date given. The CITI600 Pro is currently £775, so not the £200 price differential I was rather hoping for.

https://www.essentialphoto.co.uk/product/pixapro-citi400-pro-ttl-battery-powered-flash/
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Yep to much really, I paid £750 for my CITI600 Pro, so at that rate a difference of £65 which is rubbish, however it does say price TBC, I was thinking more in the £400-£480 range which gives a pretty decent gap between the AD200 and the 600Pro.
 
Phil V said:
What Mike said^
What does it offer over the original AD600?
Who wouldn’t rather have the extra power?
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There's several advantages, better flash tube position, better recycle times, colour stable mode, better modelling light, lighter, smaller etc.

I'd definitely prefer the AD400 Pro over an AD600 but not when it's 50% + more expensive, it might be fairer to compare to the TTL model where it's almost the same price but I have the manual one so...
 
simonbarker said:
There's several advantages, better flash tube position, better recycle times, colour stable mode, better modelling light, lighter, smaller etc.

I'd definitely prefer the AD400 Pro over an AD600 but not when it's 50% + more expensive, it might be fairer to compare to the TTL model where it's almost the same price but I have the manual one so...
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The AD600 (AD600B) is the TTL version which is what I was comparing with, it is the AD600M/AD600BM that are the manual versions, M denotes non TTL, to be specific for those that would like to know

Mike
 
TG. said:
Looks like Essential have a final price, still a bit much I think but I'm sure that it will come down after a few months.

https://www.essentialphoto.co.uk/product/pixapro-citi400-pro-ttl-battery-powered-flash/
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That price matches Adorama too once you remove VAT so I agree that's probably the final price.

I was hoping it would be closer to £400 excluding VAT but as you point out it should have discounts after it's been available for a while like every other Godox flash.
 
TG. said:
Looks like Essential have a final price, still a bit much I think but I'm sure that it will come down after a few months.

https://www.essentialphoto.co.uk/product/pixapro-citi400-pro-ttl-battery-powered-flash/
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I doubt we will see much price movement to start with, personally I think it is spot on the money for what you are getting. I see many doing $/watt second type calculations, it does not work like that IMHO - best comparison is against 2xAD200 with an AD-B2 and then there is little difference from official stockists
 
mike weeks said:
I doubt we will see much price movement to start with, personally I think it is spot on the money for what you are getting. I see many doing $/watt second type calculations, it does not work like that IMHO - best comparison is against 2xAD200 with an AD-B2 and then there is little difference from official stockists
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Not to start with but these things are inevitable when they want to move more units and a £600+ flash is no casual purchase.

I'm not saying that based around power differences, just how they've typically sold all their other products and they did discount both the AD360 and AD600BM which both seem close to the AD400 in power, product segment and pricing.

I won't be waiting for a discount though.
 
simonbarker said:
Not to start with but these things are inevitable when they want to move more units and a £600+ flash is no casual purchase.
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I actually think it is in many ways, you only have to see the amount of forums and social media groups where people now own these where before they would have had a camera mounted flashgun - when I bought my original Bowens 500s in the early nineties they were close to £400 each and a 2 head kit cost me about £1K, that was not a casual purchase, we are now over 20 years on and these are very little different in price, (whereas inflation says it should be closer to £2K, so you could say gear has halved price in real terms over that period) about the same time I bought a Nikon F90X which cost about £1K, modern equivalent might be the D500, again not a huge difference in price, gear has become far more affordable, in fact the latest Nikon flash the SB5000 has a retail of about £500 although much cheaper street prices can be found, so maybe not a truly casual purchase but certainly less considered than it once was

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
I actually think it is in many ways, you only have to see the amount of forums and social media groups where people now own these where before they would have had a camera mounted flashgun - when I bought my original Bowens 500s in the early nineties they were close to £400 each and a 2 head kit cost me about £1K, that was not a casual purchase, we are now over 20 years on and these are very little different in price, (whereas inflation says it should be closer to £2K, so you could say gear has halved price in real terms over that period) about the same time I bought a Nikon F90X which cost about £1K, modern equivalent might be the D500, again not a huge difference in price, gear has become far more affordable, in fact the latest Nikon flash the SB5000 has a retail of about £500 although much cheaper street prices can be found, so maybe not a truly casual purchase but certainly less considered than it once was
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I agree with you but you're not addressing one important point, we now live in a world with a large range of cheap and good flashes, your £400 Bowens is now a £140 (or thereabouts) Godox and that's where my reasoning on the AD400 pro not being a casual purchase comes from.

It's a super easy choice for any businesses or individuals that need a B1 class monolight though.
 
£608 seems fair enough, down from £685 which was the early guide price Essential Photo put up. The AD600-Pro is now £775, reduced from £820 I think at launch?
 
You're back to using those hard to translate fractional f/numbers again Mike. Can we have whole stops plus a decimal please :)

But you seem to be saying that the AD400-Pro is about 1/3rd of a stop less bright than the AD600-Pro - as you'd expect. But then the Bowens mount adapter on the AD400-Pro drops the brightness by a lot more because of the flash tube position?

What's the benefit of this new mount arrangement, instead of just providing a fixed Bowens mount in the first place? It just seems to be throwing away power.
 
HoppyUK said:
You're back to using those hard to translate fractional f/numbers again Mike. Can we have whole stops plus a decimal please :)

But you seem to be saying that the AD400-Pro is about 1/3rd of a stop less bright than the AD600-Pro - as you'd expect. But then the Bowens mount adapter on the AD400-Pro drops the brightness by a lot more because of the flash tube position?

What's the benefit of this new mount arrangement, instead of just providing a fixed Bowens mount in the first place? It just seems to be throwing away power.
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I think the AD400 is a bit of a b*****d child, I will have a look at the mount to describe it better - yes the perceived advantage is that it can be many mounts for many photographers
 
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