Adobe will not support older o/s in new CC

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#1
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#2
It certainly provides motivation to look at other PP software.
Why?

Focusing our efforts on more modern versions of Windows and Mac operating systems allows us to concentrate on developing the features and functionality most requested by members, while ensuring peak performance that takes advantage of modern hardware.
I'd much rather support a company that is pushing forward to give new features and better performance.

Windows 10 will for the most part be auto updated for the vast majority of users anyway so a non issue and El-Capitan was released in 2015. New Mac OS's are stable and free so absolutely no need to stay on El-Capitan.
 
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#3
Why not? ;) Some folk don't want to upgrade as they don't like change so these may be motivated to. I'm often looking at other packages in case I find something that is easier to use and gives better results (haven't really found anything yet). Perhaps I should have re-phrased it to include may ...
 
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#4
Why not? ;) Some folk don't want to upgrade as they don't like change so these may be motivated to. I'm often looking at other packages in case I find something that is easier to use and gives better results (haven't really found anything yet). Perhaps I should have re-phrased it to include may ...
Nothing wrong with looking at other packages. I've also looked and like you, never found anything better, but the fact they are no longer supporting old OS's is not something that would motivate me to switch.

Microsoft had stated before that Windows 10 is the last version of windows so it will from now on always be referred to as Windows 10 or maybe at some point just Windows. So the question is is revision 1607 classed as an old OS or a current OS
 
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#5
It's still supported on Windows 7, so it's more that they aren't supporting operating systems that aren't as wide spread.

It may be more of an issue if you're running LTSB edition of Windows 10 (which may be enterprise only?) as the current build of that is 1607 (I think).

Always good to evaluate the alternatives on occassion though.
 

Marc

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#6
El-Capitan was released in 2015. New Mac OS's are stable and free so absolutely no need to stay on El-Capitan.
Bit of a bugger if your Mac is too old to upgrade beyond El Capitan
 
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#7
Bit of a bugger if your Mac is too old to upgrade beyond El Capitan
sure, but iMacs and Macbook Pros from 2007, Macbook and Macbook Air from 2008 and Mac Mini from 2009 and are all compatible with El-Cap. These are 9,10 and 11 year old machines.

It's the world we live in. You just can expect your tech to last forever.
 

Marc

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#8
sure, but iMacs and Macbook Pros from 2007, Macbook and Macbook Air from 2008 and Mac Mini from 2009 and are all compatible with El-Cap. These are 9,10 and 11 year old machines.

It's the world we live in. You just can expect your tech to last forever.
Not forever but my 9 year old Mac is going fine, I'm not going to shell out £1k+ just to keep up to date with Adobe
 
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#9
Not forever but my 9 year old Mac is going fine, I'm not going to shell out £1k+ just to keep up to date with Adobe
My Late 2009 Mac mini is also going fine but can’t be updated beyond El Capitan.

A few months ago I was wondering whether to stay with Lightroom 4, upgrade with Lightroom 6, or take up a subscription. I opted to upgrade to Lightroom 6. At the time I didn’t even consider that the latest subscription version might not support El Capitan. Either way,in turns out, I would have ended up with a version that would not be updated. But at least with Lightroom 6, I made a one off payment of around £65 rather than continuing monthly subs.
 
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#10
Not forever but my 9 year old Mac is going fine, I'm not going to shell out £1k+ just to keep up to date with Adobe
I guess the problem for Adobe is the more functionality they add in, or the more they potentially optimise the solution, the harder it is to try and make it backwards compatible with older operating systems. They wont want to lose customers but need to make the decision from a commercial aspect as to whether trying to keep users of older operating systems is the worth the cost in development and support. Its just the world of software (and hardware to a degree) unfortunately.
 
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#12
I guess the problem for Adobe is the more functionality they add in, or the more they potentially optimise the solution, the harder it is to try and make it backwards compatible with older operating systems. They wont want to lose customers but need to make the decision from a commercial aspect as to whether trying to keep users of older operating systems is the worth the cost in development and support. Its just the world of software (and hardware to a degree) unfortunately.
Exactly this. It's not just Adobe who do this, it's all software developers including Microsoft and Apple with their OS's that no longer support old hardware.

Adobe probably figures that if you are happy to jump on the endless involuntary upgrade treadmill for your image editing, then you'll be delighted to do the same for your operating system.
:rolleyes: You'd be the first to moan and blame Adobe when your software is slow and behind other software in terms of features. I'm sure Adobe have done this on purpose, just to spite you.
 
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#13
I don't think I use any features that weren't in CS3. I don't really use many that weren't in PS7! Adobe's older software is pretty fast on modern systems, too. Best not to mention the horrible security holes, though.
 
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#14
Why?



I'd much rather support a company that is pushing forward to give new features and better performance.

Windows 10 will for the most part be auto updated for the vast majority of users anyway so a non issue and El-Capitan was released in 2015. New Mac OS's are stable and free so absolutely no need to stay on El-Capitan.
But I love XP ! :LOL:
 
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#15
Why?



I'd much rather support a company that is pushing forward to give new features and better performance.

Windows 10 will for the most part be auto updated for the vast majority of users anyway so a non issue and El-Capitan was released in 2015. New Mac OS's are stable and free so absolutely no need to stay on El-Capitan.

Adobe tie people in for 12 months.

I think there is an obligation to give 12 months notice of these sorts policy changes.

As for pushing features and performance - they're still supporting W7 64 bit. So one might reasonably assume that version of Windows in between shouldn't be too much hassle. So this is about saving some time and hassle on the number of test platforms they have to support arther than actual features. Adobe do rather well off the subscribers and are not short of a bob or two.

My view is that this announcement shows the risks of the subscriber model. Vendors get the upper hand over the customer and can change policy at short notice. Adobe are not the only company that I have experienced doing this. But they do tie people in for 12 month periods. If this was your telephone or energy or media provider then you would have a right to cancel a contract without penalty if the vendor makes material changes to their services.

Government needs to look at this situation and regulate it so that the customer is better protected.
 
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#16
My view is that this announcement shows the risks of the subscriber model. Vendors get the upper hand over the customer and can change policy at short notice.
Agreed, I can fully understand Adobe going the subscription route, if only because of the massive pirating they suffered but the temptation to now 'reverse engineer' the liability may be too great.
 
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#17
Nothing wrong with looking at other packages. I've also looked and like you, never found anything better, but the fact they are no longer supporting old OS's is not something that would motivate me to switch.

Microsoft had stated before that Windows 10 is the last version of windows so it will from now on always be referred to as Windows 10 or maybe at some point just Windows. So the question is is revision 1607 classed as an old OS or a current OS
Didn't know that.interesting
 
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#18
Adobe tie people in for 12 months.

I think there is an obligation to give 12 months notice of these sorts policy changes.

As for pushing features and performance - they're still supporting W7 64 bit. So one might reasonably assume that version of Windows in between shouldn't be too much hassle. So this is about saving some time and hassle on the number of test platforms they have to support arther than actual features. Adobe do rather well off the subscribers and are not short of a bob or two.

My view is that this announcement shows the risks of the subscriber model. Vendors get the upper hand over the customer and can change policy at short notice. Adobe are not the only company that I have experienced doing this. But they do tie people in for 12 month periods. If this was your telephone or energy or media provider then you would have a right to cancel a contract without penalty if the vendor makes material changes to their services.

Government needs to look at this situation and regulate it so that the customer is better protected.
Have you tried to cancel becauseAdobe no longer support your OS?
Stop bashing a company before you even know the facts.
For all you know, they will release you. At the end of the day Adobe have to abide by EU consumer law so I’m sure you would be legally entitled to get out of the contract if it’s Adobe that pull support.
 
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#19
Have you tried to cancel becauseAdobe no longer support your OS?
Stop bashing a company before you even know the facts.
For all you know, they will release you. At the end of the day Adobe have to abide by EU consumer law so I’m sure you would be legally entitled to get out of the contract if it’s Adobe that pull support.
And how long will Eu consumer law still apply to the UK.?:(:pint:
 
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#21
Exactly this. It's not just Adobe who do this, it's all software developers including Microsoft and Apple with their OS's that no longer support old hardware.
Many of the new Intel CPU's don't support anything less than Windows 10 < or > only Windows 10 is compatible with the latest Intel CPU's

Not sure who isn't supporting who, though I'd guess they are 'in it together'
 
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#22
Have you tried to cancel becauseAdobe no longer support your OS?
Stop bashing a company before you even know the facts.
I'm not bashing them. I'm being critical of aspects of their business model and the moral obligation of 12 months notice on changes to their strategy if they impose 12 month subscription periods.

And bear in mind I'm complaining about aspects of the subscription model - not just one company.

For all you know, they will release you.
If you can get them to understand what you are asking for - then it is possible.

At the end of the day Adobe have to abide by EU consumer law so I’m sure you would be legally entitled to get out of the contract if it’s Adobe that pull support.
Consumer Rights Act 2015 arguably covers it.

However I would reiterate - I think there needs to be regulation. I am critical of Adobe's 12 month renewal anniversary - even tghogh you pay monthly it is treated as a 12 month contract and there is - under normal circumnstances - only a short window in which you can normally cancel without penalty. And if you think that's bashing them ..... then I'd suggest they deserve it on that facet of their approach.
 
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#24
I'm not bashing them. I'm being critical of aspects of their business model and the moral obligation of 12 months notice on changes to their strategy if they impose 12 month subscription periods.

And bear in mind I'm complaining about aspects of the subscription model - not just one company.



If you can get them to understand what you are asking for - then it is possible.



Consumer Rights Act 2015 arguably covers it.

However I would reiterate - I think there needs to be regulation. I am critical of Adobe's 12 month renewal anniversary - even tghogh you pay monthly it is treated as a 12 month contract and there is - under normal circumnstances - only a short window in which you can normally cancel without penalty. And if you think that's bashing them ..... then I'd suggest they deserve it on that facet of their approach.
And I’m also sure that in that 12 month contract they are obliged to improve the software and provide meaningful updates.
No doubt if they said no updates folks because Andrew is still on an old OS which he insists we continue to support, you be complaining as well.

Not only that, Adobe has not said your software will suddenly stop working if your on an old OS, only that they will no longer support it which means you may not be able to install future updates.

Personally I love the subscription model. I can get what was bloody expensive software for the price of a couple of pints a month. I spend £1000 on cameras and lenses so I don’t begrudge paying an insignificant amount every month for great software.
 
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#25
And I’m also sure that in that 12 month contract they are obliged to improve the software and provide meaningful updates.
No doubt if they said no updates folks because Andrew is still on an old OS which he insists we continue to support, you be complaining as well.

Not only that, Adobe has not said your software will suddenly stop working if your on an old OS, only that they will no longer support it which means you may not be able to install future updates.

Personally I love the subscription model. I can get what was bloody expensive software for the price of a couple of pints a month. I spend £1000 on cameras and lenses so I don’t begrudge paying an insignificant amount every month for great software.
Bang on. I work for Microsoft and no longer supported doesn't mean it won't work. It just means we won't fix it, nor do we promise future versions will work on it.

And totally agree about the subscription model. Always boggled my mind how many are happy to spend thousands on camera gear yet get p***y over a couple of beers a month on a subscription for up to date, secure, feature rich software. And not to mention some cloud storage!
 
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#26
And I’m also sure that in that 12 month contract they are obliged to improve the software and provide meaningful updates.
No doubt if they said no updates folks because Andrew is still on an old OS which he insists we continue to support, you be complaining as well.
You're being disingenous. I insisted on nothing - what I stated was:

I think there is an obligation to give 12 months notice of these sorts policy changes.
And I associated that with the 12 mongth tie in on the subscription.

Not only that, Adobe has not said your software will suddenly stop working if your on an old OS, only that they will no longer support it which means you may not be able to install future updates.
Again - what I actually complained was the tie about was them making material changes to the service. At no point did I complain the software would stop working.

Personally I love the subscription model.
And I am wary of it - and I think it needs better consumer regulation.

Bang on. I work for Microsoft
Sounds like fun.

And totally agree about the subscription model.
And yes - you work for a company that has been going down that path for 20 years so why wouldn't you?

Always boggled my mind how many are happy to spend thousands on camera gear yet get p***y over a couple of beers a month on a subscription for up to date, secure, feature rich software. And not to mention some cloud storage!
It's not about a couple of beers.

It's about value - and the relationship between customer and vendor where there is tie in. And in the case of software you stop paying then the software partially or fully stops. So Lightroom - £99 standalone. Still works several years down the line. You may choose to upgrade. Subscription. £99/year. Several years down the line you are still paying possibly just to keep it working.

Now Microsoft and Adobe are both quite interesting in the way they have flex'ed their products to add value to the subscriptions. So it's not all bad. But there is a fundamental shift in the balance between customer and vendor and potentially a big upside for the vendor over the longer term. There is also a question about competition as arguably the barrier to entry is raised significantly.

Which takes me back (yet again) to adapting regulation to defend the consumer.
 
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#28
There is already regulation in the EU. It's called the consumer rights act 2015
I used the term 'arguably covers it'.

I don't think it's actually designed to cover subscription software. It is more focused on goods and media and content delivery services.

Just a question. Have you ever read Adobe's T&C for a CC subscription?
I'm tempted to answer 'no' just to see where that leads .......
 
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#29
I used the term 'arguably covers it'.

I don't think it's actually designed to cover subscription software. It is more focused on goods and media and content delivery services.



I'm tempted to answer 'no' just to see where that leads .......
Just wondering. We get customers all the time that don't read the T&C's and then complain when when we uphold them, even when they are within the law.

I think you'll find that the consumer rights act (formally known as the consumer contracts regulations) covers both goods and services.
 
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#30
And yes - you work for a company that has been going down that path for 20 years so why wouldn't you?
I don't agree with everything Microsoft does, the company is like all others out there...it is far from perfect. Do not make assumptions ;)

However, I agree with the Adobe subscription model. It makes the app more accessible (legally) and also includes other services such as cloud storage, along with giving them more resources for regular softwate updates & feature improvements.

Yes you may have purchased a one off license for £99 X amount of years ago, which licensed you for THAT version of Adobe Lightroom, there is only so long that would last you before it becomes obsolete. Yet many would feel that it shoudl entitle them to access to every version of it for as long as it existed. Sorry, that isn't sustainable from a business point of view. Not with the way consumers demand products these days.

Personally, I think it provides good value as it also provides at least a basic level of support which the subscription pays for, should you need it. I am not even a "pro" yet given how much I use the app and what it can do I don't feel that a tenner a month is expensive for it, at all.
 
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#32
I think you'll find that the consumer rights act (formally known as the consumer contracts regulations) covers both goods and services.
It does cover services - and it covers some well - and some less well. I think the situation with subscription software is not covered well by the Act.
 
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#33
Yes you may have purchased a one off license for £99 X amount of years ago, which licensed you for THAT version of Adobe Lightroom, there is only so long that would last you before it becomes obsolete. Yet many would feel that it shoudl entitle them to access to every version of it for as long as it existed. Sorry, that isn't sustainable from a business point of view. Not with the way consumers demand products these days.
You're inventing an entitlement.

The real problem is that incentive to pay for updates drops as the functionality and feature increments become relatively smaller.

Microsoft started encountering that 20 years ago with Office and Wimdows started pushing businesses down the subscription route well before it was really defined properly.

So Lightroom £99. You buy a new one every 2 or 3 years. Adobe gross £33 or £50/year. And there's the risk that a competitor can step in and disrupt this.

So Lightroom CC. £10/month. Chuck in Photoshop to stop complaints that it should be £5.month and make it much more attractive. Adobe gross £120/year. But better still you tie the customer in 12 months at a time. That means switching to a competitor is a bit more complicated and involves a penalty.

But - does the consumer get better value. Well I think with Adobe the answer is complex. Those who would upgrade Lightroom annually or those who use Photoshop but would otherwise not have without the subscription break even or gain. Those who just want Lighroom and would have upgraded at interals greater than a year lose out. Those who wnat to switch products lose out two ways. Firstly the 12m month tie in. Secondly the software stops fully working - leaving them with the inconvenience of moving it to a new package and losing the ability to continue working with it seamlessly.

I think the risk here is that the strategic and long term benefit lies significantly more with the vendor than consumer.
 
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#34
You're inventing an entitlement.

The real problem is that incentive to pay for updates drops as the functionality and feature increments become relatively smaller.

Microsoft started encountering that 20 years ago with Office and Wimdows started pushing businesses down the subscription route well before it was really defined properly.

So Lightroom £99. You buy a new one every 2 or 3 years. Adobe gross £33 or £50/year. And there's the risk that a competitor can step in and disrupt this.

So Lightroom CC. £10/month. Chuck in Photoshop to stop complaints that it should be £5.month and make it much more attractive. Adobe gross £120/year. But better still you tie the customer in 12 months at a time. That means switching to a competitor is a bit more complicated and involves a penalty.

But - does the consumer get better value. Well I think with Adobe the answer is complex. Those who would upgrade Lightroom annually or those who use Photoshop but would otherwise not have without the subscription break even or gain. Those who just want Lighroom and would have upgraded at interals greater than a year lose out. Those who wnat to switch products lose out two ways. Firstly the 12m month tie in. Secondly the software stops fully working - leaving them with the inconvenience of moving it to a new package and losing the ability to continue working with it seamlessly.

I think the risk here is that the strategic and long term benefit lies significantly more with the vendor than consumer.
Adobe's licensing model is not illegal and you can STILL by LR6 perpetual licence if you want to. I don't really understand your complaint. If you don't like the software or don't agree with their contract then find other software. Moaning about isn't going to change anything.

Here you go
https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/

PS. I pay £79/year for my LR and PS packages.
 
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#35
Adobe's licensing model is not illegal
Has anybody asserted that it is?

I haven't.

and you can STILL by LR6 perpetual licence if you want to.
Yes. But my original point was that you were still tied into the subscription and on that basis they should give 12 months notice.

Moaning about isn't going to change anything.
If you don't raise an issue then nobody will ever address it.

Telling everybody how much you lurve the subscription because it suits you right down to the ground isn't wrong. But using that as a justification to tell everybody they can't criticise or raise caveats isn't objective.

PS. I pay £79/year for my LR and PS packages.
You may still be paying that in 2028 - or maybe more (maybe less ..... well maybe maybe) ..... and you could stop paying.
 
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#36
Yes. But my original point was that you were still tied into the subscription and on that basis they should give 12 months notice.
No, the perpetual licence doesn't tie you into anything. It's a perpetual licence just like the good 'ol days.

If you don't raise an issue then nobody will ever address it.
Lots of people has moaned, complained and raised the issue. Adobe aren't going to change it.

You may still be paying that in 2028 - or maybe more (maybe less ..... well maybe maybe) ..... and you could stop paying.
Maybe and if I'm still using the software in 2028 I'll have no problem paying for it. Maybe it will be more. That's called inflation. I suspect bread and milk will cost more too.
 
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#37
Surely it actually depends if you need it.

I'm still using editing software I bought years ago supplemented with stand alone products - Neat Image for noise reduction, Easy HDR 3 for HDR, and soon AI Gigapixel from Topaz.

I am also transitioning away from Windows to Linux Mint 18.3 which is FREE and comes with bags of FREE software, including some good photo editing programs.
.
So you don't have to stay with Adobe unless you particularly want, or need, to.
.
 
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#38
But - does the consumer get better value. Well I think with Adobe the answer is complex. Those who would upgrade Lightroom annually or those who use Photoshop but would otherwise not have without the subscription break even or gain. Those who just want Lighroom and would have upgraded at interals greater than a year lose out. Those who wnat to switch products lose out two ways. Firstly the 12m month tie in. Secondly the software stops fully working - leaving them with the inconvenience of moving it to a new package and losing the ability to continue working with it seamlessly.

I think the risk here is that the strategic and long term benefit lies significantly more with the vendor than consumer.
At work, we are definitely losing out. We had a good deal on CS Design Standard, a subset of the full Creative Suite ((PS, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat Pro etc.) that had everything we needed and nothing much we didn't. We routinely skipped multiple versions, since the new features were rarely relevant to us and the software was only used sporadically. The cheapest way of getting the same packages now is an 'all apps' CC plan that includes a bunch of stuff we don't need. An annual subscription for this costs nearly as much as the perpetual licence for Design Standard with our pricing - if we subscribed to CC for the lifetime of a PC we'd probably be paying about 5x the CS price. But now, with Publisher in beta, Affinity has a pretty complete replacement for Design Standard (except the PDF stuff, which we can do with other tools), and it costs less than DS did. For us, Adobe has priced itself out of the market.
 
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#39
It's a bit of a pain for me too as my Mac Pro 2008 can't be upgraded past El Capitan, which is even more annoying when lower powered kit can be. It might force me to update it to a 2010 model!

Another thing I have always found funny is the subscription comparisons that conveniently forget about Photoshop! Photoshop Extended used to be £999 at one point so your choice was to pay that or pirate it, now you can get it for £10 a month with Lightroom chucked in for free, as I'm paying £79 or less a year for it, that's over 12 years worth and I don't have to find £999 up front either!
 
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#40
It's a bit of a pain for me too as my Mac Pro 2008 can't be upgraded past El Capitan, which is even more annoying when lower powered kit can be. It might force me to update it to a 2010 model!

Another thing I have always found funny is the subscription comparisons that conveniently forget about Photoshop! Photoshop Extended used to be £999 at one point so your choice was to pay that or pirate it, now you can get it for £10 a month with Lightroom chucked in for free, as I'm paying £79 or less a year for it, that's over 12 years worth and I don't have to find £999 up front either!
At last. Somebody else that thinks £79/year is actually bloody good value for money for what you get.

Thing is though, as I said before. Those complaining are usually those that just pirated the software anyway.
 
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