Advice/feedback/comments welcome.

Diego Garcia

Diego Garcia

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Hey all,

After some feedback here and it is serious. I am getting pretty peeved with my work of late, so much so that I have been thinking about selling all of my kit and taking a long break from snapping - something is not working for me at the moment.

I cant seem to find any form in my photos. Of course people are factoring in the move back to Canon from Nikon which I can understand as the latest batch of Nikon cameras just fly in every respect. However, I am enjoying the 5D and all it brings, but I cant seem to process the photos. I have said it before but the images lack 'snap and bite' which I found easier to attain with the Nikon. What are your opinions on these three images. All have been PP's on different software and I like none more than the other. I want to get my mojo back really, but not quite sure how. For reference there is no smoothing going on, just vanilla processing for nice images.

Could it be a case of once a sports photographer always a sports photographer ?

Finally, not looking for gushing praise here, i cant recall the last time I took a peach of a photo, just wondering what people think of these. I think that they are average but the client likes em and I spose that counts, but I think something is missing at the moment....its all very weird.

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They all have their own unique style Pete. The shallow depth of field gives them a touch of class that without they would just be another photograph. I like the last PP'd shot for me. I think your just taking time to get used to your new discipline and the other skills which it requires. Sports, landscapes and potraits are three totally different areas you'll get their in the end :thumbs:
 
I'm probably not qualified enough to give you advice on your photography but one thing that I do find is that when you're trying too hard it can be detrimental to your output. It's happened to me when it comes to building a website, playing computer games competitively and my photography too. I always find that taking a break to refresh your mind always helps. Sometimes you get stuck in a rut and the only way to get out of it is to forget where you are at, do something else for a week or two, maybe longer, then come back again fresh and with a clear mind. Easy to say but harder to do in practice.

With regards to photography I guess there could be issues with a slightly different way of working because of your kit change, perhaps you've moved from one specialty area to another and are assuming that the same type of processing work is going to work for your new area. I don't know how you work but I very rarely change my workflow or the software that I use unless absolutely necessary.

Finally with regards to those three images that you posted. I'd say that the middle one to me is the most natural looking one. The skin isn't blown like the other two images and the tones of the hair seem to be better.

I hope this helps in some way. I don't think it'll be long before you're content again with your photography.
 
Ally said:
They all have their own unique style Pete. The shallow depth of field gives them a touch of class that without they would just be another photograph. I like the last PP'd shot for me. I think your just taking time to get used to your new discipline and the other skills which it requires. Sports, landscapes and potraits are three totally different areas you'll get their in the end :thumbs:
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Thanks and noted.
 
KayJay said:
I'm probably not qualified enough to give you advice on your photography but one thing that I do find is that when you're trying too hard it can be detrimental to your output. It's happened to me when it comes to building a website, playing computer games competitively and my photography too. I always find that taking a break to refresh your mind always helps. Sometimes you get stuck in a rut and the only way to get out of it is to forget where you are at, do something else for a week or two, maybe longer, then come back again fresh and with a clear mind. Easy to say but harder to do in practice.

With regards to photography I guess there could be issues with a slightly different way of working because of your kit change, perhaps you've moved from one specialty area to another and are assuming that the same type of processing work is going to work for your new area. I don't know how you work but I very rarely change my workflow or the software that I use unless absolutely necessary.

Finally with regards to those three images that you posted. I'd say that the middle one to me is the most natural looking one. The skin isn't blown like the other two images and the tones of the hair seem to be better.

I hope this helps in some way. I don't think it'll be long before you're content again with your photography.
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Thanks for the words, interesting stuff. Trouble is that I cant really down tools for various reasons. Here is another shot I got today, which I think is better as the Canon 5D2 and 50mm combo has nailed it down rather nicely. Ideally I want a new 85mm for this stuff, but I am spent out.....

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Could I suggest that you have lost some confidence in your own skills as a photographer (for whatever reason) and that is clouding your ability to judge your own work, rather than any actual degradation in output quality. From personal experience the frequent times that I doubt myself, my abilities and my work never result in the recipient being unhappy.

Maybe rather than binning the whole thing go back to what you know you are good at to rebuild faith in your work. Shoot sports for a while and dabble in the others rather than throwing your whole weight behind them?

For the record I like the processing of no 1 in the girl set (by quite some margin) and the pic of the young guy is great.

P.s If that all sounds like meaningless psychobabble, its because it is ;)
 
TheBionicDan said:
Could I suggest that you have lost some confidence in your own skills as a photographer (for whatever reason) and that is clouding your ability to judge your own work, rather than any actual degradation in output quality. From personal experience the frequent times that I doubt myself, my abilities and my work never result in the recipient being unhappy.

Maybe rather than binning the whole thing go back to what you know you are good at to rebuild faith in your work. Shoot sports for a while and dabble in the others rather than throwing your whole weight behind them?

For the record I like the processing of no 1 in the girl set (by quite some margin) and the pic of the young guy is great.

P.s If that all sounds like meaningless psychobabble, its because it is ;)
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Thats cool, thanks for the words. I cant really just go back to sport as sold pretty much all my sport kit due to personal issues and trying new things. being honest I found sport very tiring and I am happy to admit that I was very jaded by the whole process of shooting the same 'all the time' but it was enjoyable with regards to the social side and the different things one did.

PS - 1 is LR processed.....though looking at the shot again, I think it may be to tight, which could be the issue.
 
I'm very much in KayJay's shoes when it comes to being able to offer photographic advice to the likes of you, however, reading your op and looking at the quality of these images, I'm sensing that the problem isn't so much with the photographs or even the switch back to Canon, but more that you're suffering a bit of a general malaise, perhaps photography-induced, but more likely the same one that is affecting a great many of us at the moment, brought on by a combination of the weather, the "credit crunch" and all the rest of the depressing crap that is plastered across our tv screens on a daily basis.

Perhaps you simply need a short break or a nice holiday somewhere sunny to recharge.

For the record, my preference for the first shot is version one.

Keep your chin up :)
 
Looking purely at the pics, I'll go with the crowd and say #1 is my pick by a fair way. I feel her hair could be a little better though, It looks a touch over-saturated maybe in #1.

The first thing I noticed on opening the thread, was how tight they are on the RHS.

Personally I prefer the shot of the lad to any of the girl.
 
The first of the girl looks the warmest and most inviting, the others look hard with the second being overly reddish and the third it looks pallid in comparison.

For the pic of the guy, theres something not quite right sitting with me with the change in skin tone further down the neck.

When you talk of "snap and bite" it something that I could associate with sport where there is a lot of action. But the first set of portraits seem more like static session, whereas the second one seems more like there is "snap and bite". I think it is the subject that needs to give you this and not the camera, maybe you need to inject/find it somehow in the subject.
 
Diego Garcia said:
After some feedback here and it is serious...
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Okay, if there's any merit in being cruel to be kind, then you'll like this. Maybe. One day. But I've read some of your posts and I think you can take it.

There is nothing wrong with your cameras or processing. C'mon! You know that! You're a professional I think, and you've got a job to do mate ;)

Portraiture and sport are miles apart. You're not just recording the action - although that is a great skill in itself. You've got to create it. I'm sure you will have done this plenty of times in the past when you had to make a picture out of nothing. You were doing your job, and I don't suppose it was all that hard for you. Those are the skills you need to call upon now - not big lenses or trick AF at 10fps. Real creative skill.

Your lighting is very dull and shadowy. Get some softboxes in there, get a big highlight in the eyes, maybe some back light, give it some sparkle. It doesn't look like you've got much out of the model but she's a pretty enough lass - let's see it!

The set is straight from a police mug-shot. Make-up, hair, props, poses - what happened there? You've got to work it - the camera, the model, the lights, the set, the whole shooting match to coin a phrase.

You need to harness a new range of skills, but the most important talent of all is rapport with people. Somehow I think you've got more than enough personality to pull that one off, but you need to learn the tricks of a new photographic trade. Take a look at some portraiture - you don't have to go any further than pbase. What do you like? How was it done? What do you need?

Now go and get it, sort it, use it, work it, work it again and again, until you've got it. You can't get out what you don't put in. Give it the kind of passion that I know you've got. You obviously care enough to make this post, and I honestly suggest that this is a very good foundation to work from. You know your photography, too, that's in no doubt (and that's more than a lot of pro togs ;) ) so you're well on the way.

You want a new challenge? Well, now you've got one. And you get paid for it. Most folks on here would kill for a job like that.

With every best wish,

Richard.
 
One jaded sports tog to another here :)

Head shots are very difficult to do very well. Check the work of Kevin Major Howard (you will need to ignore the self promotion etc that the site has - very 90's American)

http://www.headshot-photography.com/index.htm

There are a few things stand out.
Separation from background.
Shadows.
Eyes.
Pose.

His set up is very simple and he usually shoots on his driveway into his garage using natural light and a reflector. He seems to favour the 135 to 200mm focal length.

Looking at the images you have shown (the young lady) the pose is awkward and you look like you have a 3 light setup. Two lights at 45/60 degs left and right of the camera and a fill light. The overlapping shadows on the neck detract significantly from the image. Try a more basic lighting set up and develop it.

The lighting works well for the last image (the young man).

With this kind of shot I will usually pose the subject and chat away. Look for the moment that captures the person. A bit like sport really except with sport we are looking for the moment of peak action. The laugh, the shy smile etc are key here. The moment after a laugh is always good, avoid catching them head back looking like a donkey braying and wait for that tiny moment immediately after the laugh.

Every so often i find it useful to go back to basics with lighting for portraits and set up a basic dummy head (the hairdressers dummy heads work well as they have natural hair - plenty on ebay) and then work on my lighting, posing and camera position.

There is an immediacy to sports/action photography which can be very challenging. The constant interaction of light, position and movement means a sports photographers mind is continually working through a whole series of options. The work flow and delivery time expectations are also very different. The moments are still there with portraits but unlike sport you are part of the process of creating them.

John
 
jpwone said:
One jaded sports tog to another here :)

Head shots are very difficult to do very well. Check the work of Kevin Major Howard (you will need to ignore the self promotion etc that the site has - very 90's American)

http://www.headshot-photography.com/index.htm

There are a few things stand out.
Separation from background.
Shadows.
Eyes.
Pose.

His set up is very simple and he usually shoots on his driveway into his garage using natural light and a reflector. He seems to favour the 135 to 200mm focal length.

Looking at the images you have shown (the young lady) the pose is awkward and you look like you have a 3 light setup. Two lights at 45/60 degs left and right of the camera and a fill light. The overlapping shadows on the neck detract significantly from the image. Try a more basic lighting set up and develop it.

The lighting works well for the last image (the young man).

With this kind of shot I will usually pose the subject and chat away. Look for the moment that captures the person. A bit like sport really except with sport we are looking for the moment of peak action. The laugh, the shy smile etc are key here. The moment after a laugh is always good, avoid catching them head back looking like a donkey braying and wait for that tiny moment immediately after the laugh.

Every so often i find it useful to go back to basics with lighting for portraits and set up a basic dummy head (the hairdressers dummy heads work well as they have natural hair - plenty on ebay) and then work on my lighting, posing and camera position.

There is an immediacy to sports/action photography which can be very challenging. The constant interaction of light, position and movement means a sports photographers mind is continually working through a whole series of options. The work flow and delivery time expectations are also very different. The moments are still there with portraits but unlike sport you are part of the process of creating them.

John
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Nope. Not a pro. Never quite was, never will be now, never want to be now - too old! A earnt well from snapping a while back but things change However, again wise words. Without bailing out, this was a shoot last night and this was as far away from the subject as I could get as they had a very small space. All taken on board however and will sit and read that later.

Thanks. Advice is great. perhaps I am trying to hard to soon.

I have a holiday in March. A week in the lakes taking photos. ha ha ha.
 
Don't sell up, don't walk away for long. There is nowt wrong with your togging Pete, never has been but I think you might just be a little "burnt out" Take a few days off, go and walk round some art galleries and just appreciate the surroundings, architecture, the art on the walls and soak it up. Take some time out for you, go and visit a spa and have a massage, relax a bit. Empty your head and come back fresher for it.

It is an awful time of year, no good news, money is tight for a lot of folks so a recharge of your own batteries may well be in order.

As for the pics, yes the one of the young man is a lot better. Can I ask what is going on with the backgrounds though? Neither are very good at giving an image any kind of punch. The first set remind me of school photos because of it. They are nice enough pics Pete but I don't think you were aiming for "nice". What kind of feel were you aiming for with them?
 
Pete, I am not even going to begin to critique these images, there are plenty of portrait togs that can and have done so far better than I could. Instead I am going to tell you to give it a rest! Step away from the camera, step away from the computer, you are just bored maybe, or as flashy said, generally affected by the weather and generally miserable news we are all suffering from, or something. You really don't need me to tell you that your sports photography is second to none, some of the best I have ever seen, but maybe you are temporarily forgetting that. You are a bloody good photographer, your mojo will come back but not if you sit around moping and indulging in too much self-analysis and introspection. Easy to say I know, much harder to abide by.

Ask a born studio tog to go out and take action sports shots when they don't usually venture past the studio door and they will struggle too. Yes, they will probably get some half decent shots purely from their technical understanding of a camera, but it would take more then one session for them to get anythig better than you have done here reversing the roles.


:hug: just remember, you live to take pictures, you dont take pictures to live, you can allow yourself a break and go a bit easier on yourself.
 
When I was learning to play guitar many moons ago, I used to get so down at my ability, I just sometimes felt useless or not good enough, in truth though, it usually means the opposite, your about to move up a level and it's hard to realize that your in the fresher territory of being better than you were.
Your eye is far more critical and your own standard of satisfaction is now much higher or more detailed in criteria. The bar has been subconsciously raised and now your conscious has caught up with it.
Personally I think your just moving on up mate, trying new things and pushing new boundaries. :thumbs:
 
Well I've seen much of your work before and most of it I've admired too - but the girl shots are poor, while the lad is quite a bit better. If you hadn't posted them, I wouldn't have taken them for being from the same tog

The guy with the garage (re post #12) has an interesting style and some great shots, but not of the kids which look very average compared to some of his model shots; proving that one style doesn't necessarily fit all

What he has got though is a style and it's quite a distinctive one. Your past work has often been recognisably yours, and you just need to figure out how to transfer some of that to your portraiture

Take a break by all means, but hunt for portraits you'd like to have taken and dissect them - then try to replicate them, then your own style will emerge. That's all I ever do and I find it works for me

But whatever you do - don't FFS stop your photography for long - and I look forward to seeing your 'refreshed' work soon

:thumbs:

DD
 
Diego Garcia said:
Thanks. Advice is great. perhaps I am trying to hard to soon.
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Yes, you probably are. This is a good thing, and self criticism is also good, but don't beat yourself up about it.

If you're not a pro, then you've got a great opportunity to step back for a minute and let things take their own time. Creative people always have their blue periods. If you've got it, and you want it, then your mojo will return :) Give it a nudge from time to time, but don't force it.

Lots of good advice from Ali and Yv.

Good luck,

Richard.
 
DiddyDave said:
Well I've seen much of your work before and most of it I've admired too - but the girl shots are poor, while the lad is quite a bit better. If you hadn't posted them, I wouldn't have taken them for being from the same tog

The guy with the garage (re post #12) has an interesting style and some great shots, but not of the kids which look very average compared to some of his model shots; proving that one style doesn't necessarily fit all

What he has got though is a style and it's quite a distinctive one. Your past work has often been recognisably yours, and you just need to figure out how to transfer some of that to your portraiture

Take a break by all means, but hunt for portraits you'd like to have taken and dissect them - then try to replicate them, then your own style will emerge. That's all I ever do and I find it works for me

But whatever you do - don't FFS stop your photography for long - and I look forward to seeing your 'refreshed' work soon

:thumbs:

DD
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Thanks Dave. Was hoping for your input here given your expertise in the field. Nice one. I think that the fact is that I am far better in natural light and working at speed, but things can change.
 
Diego Garcia said:
Thanks Dave. Was hoping for your input here given your expertise in the field. Nice one. I think that the fact is that I am far better in natural light and working at speed, but things can change.
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Glad it was taken the right way - others on here sometimes get a bit 'shirty' with criticism ;)

In my 30 years as a hobbyist and now Pro I've shot just about everything at some point, and many things I'm just not good at or find too dull to bother with - sport being one !

My best work has always been in Landscapes, but I didn't know how to make any money from that, so the change to Shooting kids was a major one and it took me quite a while too to develop a technique and then style I was happy with. I'm still finding my feet with Weddings tbh, as I find it easy to record a Wedding well and ensure all have fun along the way, but this year I'm more focussed on developing a style there too and one which has more artistry to it as well

While there's truth in the old adage that 'A change is as good as a rest', I've more usually found that 'A change can be a ball-ache and bring seemingly endless frustration for a while, then something 'clicks' and alls well'

And I like a rest to be just that too

Your journey has just taken another direction into unfamiliar territory, but you'll get there is you really want to

:)

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
Glad it was taken the right way - others on here sometimes get a bit 'shirty' with criticism ;)

In my 30 years as a hobbyist and now Pro I've shot just about everything at some point, and many things I'm just not good at or find too dull to bother with - sport being one !

My best work has always been in Landscapes, but I didn't know how to make any money from that, so the change to Shooting kids was a major one and it took me quite a while too to develop a technique and then style I was happy with. I'm still finding my feet with Weddings tbh, as I find it easy to record a Wedding well and ensure all have fun along the way, but this year I'm more focussed on developing a style there too and one which has more artistry to it as well

While there's truth in the old adage that 'A change is as good as a rest', I've more usually found that 'A change can be a ball-ache and bring seemingly endless frustration for a while, then something 'clicks' and alls well'

And I like a rest to be just that too

Your journey has just taken another direction into unfamiliar territory, but you'll get there is you really want to

:)

DD
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Thanks - I am more than open to help and advice and always looking to learn. I wrote that on my blog just the other day. One thing I would ask everyone is that do you think people become a brand photographer in that they can excel with one make and not the other as I seem to be worrying myself more about what I found with Nikon kit and cant seem to attain with Canon - especially portrait. Without getting into the science, I just find the Canon lack mid range histogram that Nikon can grab, but know that it is there somewhere -0 which is why I wrote about the Canon style in my ongoing 5D2 thread in that the ebb on under rather than over, but if you push it to the right, people tell you have you blown your whites despite the scale telling you not...?!?!?!?!?

I concur about sport as well. It is a bit of a 'drug' style however and one that is hard to explain. I think nailing the moment of impact for example is what a sport snapper may harp on about....especially to another sporting photographer.
 
I have my own 'drug' and it too comes from nailing a moment - just a less obvious one

It's that certain twinkle in the eye usually, a connection with the subject that often the other 100 shots don't possess. It's a bit like they are no longer looking at the camera, but through it into your own eye - weird arty bollx maybe - but I always know when I've got it even without chimping

And it doesn't happen on every Shoot either - but I guess if it was 'guaranteed' it wouldn't be such a high would it

DD
 
Mojo, or creativity is tidal, I've been there, had spells where I can't seem to put an image together (some may argue this happens 100% of my time).

But I'm long enough in the tooth to realise, that the tides out, and sometime soon it will come back in.

And although it pains me excruciatingly :) , I have to agree with DD in his comment 'A change can be a ball-ache and bring seemingly endless frustration for a while, then something 'clicks' and alls well
 
Pete

Firstly, i havent read through all the comments left so im sorry if i repeat anything said already.
Back to the shots, the first post of the three pics of the girl. Love the Dof but the colours and the shot in general that realyl stands out to me is image 1. It looks alot more "natural" to me and i find the last shot of the 3 to be VERY cold in colour.
Back to your general photography, do NOT give up. The pics that you were shooting in the other thread about your progress with the 5dmkII are all stunning. You have some great shots in there, with gorgeous colours that just boom out of the picture! I think you are just suffering from the rubbish weather and lack of drive that we all suffer with in the dark months. Hopefully with the passing of the year brings more light/sun and with this more drive, energy and passion for your photography once more. My partner suffers from SAD and its amazing seeing the changes in her moods across the year, maybe this is something that you are suffering with?

Mike
 
That's a fair point too from MJ. In fact my other half bought me a daylight lamp becuase I get ratty every November. So now I go and have a Roswell moment with my lamp and I've certainly been much better this year. :)
 
Thanks all.

Some facts. I dont know who knows this but I work as a manager for a large UK camera company and as such, eat sleep and drink photography and the products. Have been there some time now and whilst I do enjoy it, there is a massive paradox working in camera retail in that the longer you are there, the less you shoot and the more you spend time selling, demoing and generally being told things are cheaper on the internet.

However, also, without saying that I dislike life, at the moment I feel about as fed up with my circs as anyone can be. Not depressed, just fed up with everything. Again.
So, maybe this transposes over to my images. On the side I too work for a south west picture desk, have plenty of offers and chances to shoot but cant, as I am always working. I ended up doing this for a living by bad luck if you like. Remember when I had them massive operations, well I lost my other job which was part time and very flexible. Back then I was going all over Europe taking photos at the drop of a hat. Now I cant, but there is no money in it anyway. I also work with a local agency training and advising other photographers how to shoot and what to shoot, mainly sport.

So, there it is, the facts are there - I suppose just gotta keep plodding along. As I said, please don't think you need to PM me as I am not depressed, just going through some motions about photography. All a bit self indulgent, but heck, what's a guy to do! I want to go to Focus as a customer and enjoy it, but guess what, I cant get the time off.....
 
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